Verbruggen and Cross

Only popular in the 8 western euro countries? How do you explain ME "racing" cross in San Diego this
winter?? Geez, get your head out of your ass Verbruggen

Mike "TritonRider" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

From todays Cyclingnews

Speaking on Belgium's Radio 1, Verbruggen said "We must not have the

ambition

Quoted message said:

that cyclo-cross will conquer the world. Cyclo-cross is doomed to stay

popular

Quoted message said:

at the regional level."

Verbruggen doesn't see cyclo-cross fitting into his "globalisation" model

of

Quoted message said:

cycling. He added that he "wasn't cheering" about Sunday's Belgian clean

sweep.

Quoted message said:

"It is difficult to sell the sport to sponsors and TV."

"I firmly believe that cyclo-cross is a sport that has a hard core of fans

in

Quoted message said:

eight Western European countries. But therefore we must not want to make

it a

Quoted message said:

worldwide spectacle."

Verbruggen also said that he wasn't interested in expanding it to other European countries, such
as Scandinavia. "From Poland onwards, it's always

very

Quoted message said:

cold," he said. Also ruled out was the possibility that it become an

Olympic

Quoted message said:

sport. "Cyclo-cross doesn't require snow and ice, therefore it couldn't be

part

Quoted message said:

of the Winter Olympics. And for the Summer Games, cyclo-cross also can't

be

Quoted message said:

considered, because ultimately it is a winter sport."

Did you ever get the feeling that he still thinks the world is flat, the

sun

Quoted message said:

is still shining on the empire, and aeroplanes will never be practical.
His track record speaks for itself. I am surprised that cycling hasn't
collapsed even more than it has under his dubious leadership. His record

on

Quoted message said:

dealing with drugs, sponsors, bike manufacturers, and the press has been

weak

Quoted message said:

at best. Why do I think that when he sees the future of racing he sees in black and white,
everyone is wearing wool, and using downtube shifters. Cross should be a fairly easy sell to at
least Euro TV. It happens when everyone is in winter mode looking for something to watch. Would
not have

to be

Quoted message said:

expensive to cover as it's at a single location not point to point. It has

lots

Quoted message said:

of fast action over a short period of time. It's very spectator friendly

and

Quoted message said:

the crowds put on a good show too. Oh, well just my $0.02 Bill C

"TritonRider" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

From todays Cyclingnews

Speaking on Belgium's Radio 1, Verbruggen said "We must not have the

ambition

Quoted message said:

that cyclo-cross will conquer the world. Cyclo-cross is doomed to stay

popular

Quoted message said:

at the regional level."

Verbruggen doesn't see cyclo-cross fitting into his "globalisation" model

of

Quoted message said:

cycling. He added that he "wasn't cheering" about Sunday's Belgian clean

sweep.

Quoted message said:

"It is difficult to sell the sport to sponsors and TV."

"I firmly believe that cyclo-cross is a sport that has a hard core of fans

in

Quoted message said:

eight Western European countries. But therefore we must not want to make

it a

Quoted message said:

worldwide spectacle."

Verbruggen also said that he wasn't interested in expanding it to other European countries, such
as Scandinavia. "From Poland onwards, it's always

very

Quoted message said:

cold," he said. Also ruled out was the possibility that it become an

Olympic

Quoted message said:

sport. "Cyclo-cross doesn't require snow and ice, therefore it couldn't be

part

Quoted message said:

of the Winter Olympics. And for the Summer Games, cyclo-cross also can't

be

Quoted message said:

considered, because ultimately it is a winter sport."

Did you ever get the feeling that he still thinks the world is flat, the

sun

Quoted message said:

is still shining on the empire, and aeroplanes will never be practical.
His track record speaks for itself. I am surprised that cycling hasn't
collapsed even more than it has under his dubious leadership. His record

on

Quoted message said:

dealing with drugs, sponsors, bike manufacturers, and the press has been

weak

Quoted message said:

at best. Why do I think that when he sees the future of racing he sees in black and white,
everyone is wearing wool, and using downtube shifters. Cross should be a fairly easy sell to at
least Euro TV. It happens when everyone is in winter mode looking for something to watch. Would
not have

to be

Quoted message said:

expensive to cover as it's at a single location not point to point. It has

lots

Quoted message said:

of fast action over a short period of time. It's very spectator friendly

and

Quoted message said:

the crowds put on a good show too. Oh, well just my $0.02 Bill C

If ABC Sports could sell barrel jumping from Lake Placid, 'cross should be an easy sell. And do
be careful, Bill. You sound a bit like me and you don't want those Monkeys trying to imitate
you too. :-)

Brian Lafferty

Quoted post said:

Originally posted by Tritonrider
From todays Cyclingnews

Speaking on Belgium's Radio 1, Verbruggen said "We must not have the ambition that cyclo-cross will
conquer the world. Cyclo-cross is doomed to stay popular at the regional level."

Verbruggen doesn't see cyclo-cross fitting into his "globalisation" model of cycling. He added that
he "wasn't cheering" about Sunday's Belgian clean sweep. "It is difficult to sell the sport to
sponsors and TV."

"I firmly believe that cyclo-cross is a sport that has a hard core of fans in eight Western European
countries. But therefore we must not want to make it a worldwide spectacle."

Verbruggen also said that he wasn't interested in expanding it to other European countries, such as
Scandinavia. "From Poland onwards, it's always very cold," he said. Also ruled out was the
possibility that it become an Olympic sport. "Cyclo-cross doesn't require snow and ice, therefore it
couldn't be part of the Winter Olympics. And for the Summer Games, cyclo-cross also can't be
considered, because ultimately it is a winter sport."

Did you ever get the feeling that he still thinks the world is flat, the sun is still shining on
the empire, and aeroplanes will never be practical. His track record speaks for itself. I am
surprised that cycling hasn't collapsed even more than it has under his dubious leadership. His
record on dealing with drugs, sponsors, bike manufacturers, and the press has been weak at best.
Why do I think that when he sees the future of racing he sees in black and white, everyone is
wearing wool, and using downtube shifters. Cross should be a fairly easy sell to at least Euro TV.
It happens when everyone is in winter mode looking for something to watch. Would not have to be
expensive to cover as it's at a single location not point to point. It has lots of fast action
over a short period of time. It's very spectator friendly and the crowds put on a good show too.
Oh, well just my $0.02 Bill C

I totally agree. I hope Verbruggen's reign doesn't last long anymore.

Cyclocross is probably the most spectator - and broadcast - friendly of all cycling events (duration, closed circuit, action, spectacular) and it should - with some promotion - even be easy to sell to non cycling countries.

Anyway, although I have nothing against track racing, I think Verbruggens efforts to globalise cycling through track racing is not the most cost effective of ways one can come up with.

Cyclo Cross should have some meaningfull competitors that don't come from Belgium, Holland or the Tchech Republic

Niek

--
"nferyn" <[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Tritonrider said:

From todays Cyclingnews Speaking on Belgium's Radio 1, Verbruggen said "We must not have the
ambition that cyclo-cross will conquer the world. Cyclo-cross is

doomed

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

to stay popular at the regional level." Verbruggen doesn't see cyclo-cross fitting into his
"globalisation" model of cycling. He added that he "wasn't cheering" about Sunday's Belgian
clean sweep. "It is difficult to sell the sport to sponsors and TV." "I firmly believe that
cyclo-cross is a sport that has a hard core of fans in eight Western European countries. But
therefore we must not

want

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

to make it a worldwide spectacle." Verbruggen also said that he wasn't interested in expanding
it to

other

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

European countries, such as Scandinavia. "From Poland onwards, it's always very cold," he
said. Also ruled out was the possibility that it become an Olympic sport. "Cyclo-cross doesn't
require snow and ice, therefore it couldn't be part of the Winter Olympics. And for the

Summer

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Games, cyclo-cross also can't be considered, because ultimately it is

a

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

winter sport." Did you ever get the feeling that he still thinks the world is flat, the sun is
still shining on the empire, and aeroplanes will never be practical. His track record speaks
for itself. I am surprised that cycling hasn't collapsed even more than it has under his
dubious leadership. His record on dealing with drugs, sponsors, bike manufacturers, and the
press has been weak at best. Why do I think that when he sees the future of racing he sees in
black and white, everyone is wearing wool, and using downtube shifters. Cross should

be

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

a fairly easy sell to at least Euro TV. It happens when everyone is

in

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

winter mode looking for something to watch. Would not have to be expensive to cover as it's
at a single location not point to point.

It

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

has lots of fast action over a short period of time. It's very spectator friendly and the
crowds put on a good show too. Oh, well just my $0.02 Bill C

I totally agree. I hope Verbruggen's reign doesn't last long anymore.

Look for Hein to move on to the top level of the IOC. He was in the running to replace Jaun
Antonio, but the drugs scandals in cycling have aparently blocked that for this IOC
presidential round.

Brian Lafferty

Quoted message said:

From: nferyn [email hidden]

Anyway, although I have nothing against track racing, I think Verbruggens efforts to globalise
cycling through track racing is not the most cost effective of ways one can come up with. Cylo Cross
should have some meaningfull competitors that don't come

Quoted message said:

from Belgium, Holland or the Tchech Republic

Niek

One of the big problems with track is the initial investment required and upkeep. If you've been
following the discussions here it's awfully tough to come up with the money to build and sustain
a Velodrome. With Cross you have a much smaller recurring charge for course repair afterwards
and cleanup but no huge initial outlay. Track racing is cool, but you really need to have some
idea what is going on to enjoy and understand it. Cross races are pretty straightforward and TV
viewer friendly as far as action and how it works. It's going to take time for other countries
to catch up to Belgium, their Cross racers are national heroes. I'm not sure how you get there
though. Do you need a "star" to make it popular, or does it grow like MTB did? Hopefully
Laffertys right and Verbruggen goes to the IOC, they deserve each other, and someone with newer
ideas takes over. Bill C.

In article said:

Quoted message said:

From: nferyn [email hidden]

Anyway, although I have nothing against track racing, I think Verbruggens efforts to globalise
cycling through track racing is not the most cost effective of ways one can come up with. Cylo
Cross should have some meaningfull competitors that don't come

Quoted message said:

from Belgium, Holland or the Tchech Republic

Niek

One of the big problems with track is the initial investment required and upkeep. If you've been
following the discussions here it's awfully tough to come up with the money to build and sustain
a Velodrome. With Cross you have a much smaller recurring charge for course repair afterwards and
cleanup but no huge initial outlay.

The main problem with track racing in the U.S. is that everyone who talks about building a track
wants to build a track capable of hosting the world chapionships. These tracks are very expensive
and naturally most efforts to build such a track fail. A very basic starter track could be built for
a couple hundred thousand dollars. This amount really isn't that much ( compared to the several
million most "World Class" track projects poeple talk about building). A basic starter track is also
much cheaper to maintain compared to the world class tracks.

Casey

Hein VerMoron posted the following directly to r.b.r.:

Quoted message said:

"I firmly believe that cyclo-cross is a sport that has a hard core of fans in eight Western
European countries. But therefore we must not want to make it a worldwide spectacle."

Hein, if cyclocross is a regional sport with no potential to involve the rest of the world, then how
does your organization justify holding a world championship in it?

At the risk of asking a Hansenesque question, has Hein ever ridden a bike?

Props to any r.b.r. contributor who can post a picture of Hein aboard a bike at any point
in his life.

-RJ

Ronaldo Jeremiah said:

Props to any r.b.r. contributor who can post a picture of Hein aboard a bike at any point in
his life.

Damn, I can't find one. Verbruggen got started in cycling as salesmanager of the Dutch Mars-bar
factory in the seventies, when he embraced Joop Zoetemelk (who else?) as a member of the Mars
Flandria pro cycling team.

[email hidden] (Ronaldo Jeremiah) wrote in message
news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

Hein, if cyclocross is a regional sport with no potential to involve the rest of the world, then
how does your organization justify holding a world championship in it?

Ouch!

[email hidden] (Ronaldo Jeremiah) wrote in message

Quoted message said:

Hein, if cyclocross is a regional sport with no potential to involve the rest of the world, then
how does your organization justify holding a world championship in it?

Like the NBA, NFL and MLB?

"Carl Sundquist" <[email protected]...

Quoted message said:

(fake) wrote in message

Quoted message said:

Hein, if cyclocross is a regional sport with no potential to involve the rest of the world, then
how does your organization justify holding a world championship in it?

Like the NBA, NFL and MLB?

MLB and the NBA certainly have a significant percentage of foreign-born players.

Basketball and Soccer are probably the two most widely played team sports in the world.

So, since the best league ("division one"😉 in the world is the NBA then naturally the NBA champs
team should rightfully carry the world champs title as well.

-Ken

"Ken Papai" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:_Ue0a.786$iG3.311@sccrnsc02...

Quoted message said:

"Carl Sundquist" <[email protected]...

Quoted message said:

(fake) wrote in message

Quoted message said:

Hein, if cyclocross is a regional sport with no potential to involve the rest of the world,
then how does your organization justify holding a world championship in it?

Like the NBA, NFL and MLB?

MLB and the NBA certainly have a significant percentage of foreign-born players.

Basketball and Soccer are probably the two most widely played team sports in the world.

So, since the best league ("division one"😉 in the world is the NBA then naturally the NBA champs
team should rightfully carry the world champs title as well.

The winner of the "World Series" in MLB wouldn't necessarily win vs. the rest of the world. The
professional leagues in Cuba and Japan are good. I'd wager that if a championship of the pro leagues
was held, MLB would lose once or twice every ten years.

As for basketball, a US team full of NBA players lost 3 times in last summer's World Championships
in Indianapolis. They had the most talent, but didn't play together well. They got schooled by
squads which played good defense and ran disciplined motion offenses. Many a backdoor layup was had
vs. the unenergetic US defense.

"Ken Papai" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:_Ue0a.786$iG3.311@sccrnsc02...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Hein, if cyclocross is a regional sport with no potential to involve the rest of the world,
then how does your organization justify holding a world championship in it?

Like the NBA, NFL and MLB?

MLB and the NBA certainly have a significant percentage of foreign-born players.

Basketball and Soccer are probably the two most widely played team sports in the world.

So, since the best league ("division one"😉 in the world is the NBA then naturally the NBA champs
team should rightfully carry the world champs title as well.

MLB probably has about as many players from different countries as the NHL does, but they call their
championship the Stanley Cup w/o an unofficial world championship attached to it.

We've been down this path before. As I've said in the past, no thread ever dies. It just goes away
for awhile.

In article _Ue0a.786$iG3.311@sccrnsc02 said:

"Carl Sundquist" <[email protected]...

Quoted message said:

(fake) wrote in message

Quoted message said:

Hein, if cyclocross is a regional sport with no potential to involve the rest of the world,
then how does your organization justify holding a world championship in it?

Like the NBA, NFL and MLB?

MLB and the NBA certainly have a significant percentage of foreign-born players.

Basketball and Soccer are probably the two most widely played team sports in the world.

So, since the best league ("division one"😉 in the world is the NBA then naturally the NBA champs
team should rightfully carry the world champs title as well.

Of course this argument overlooks the fact that there is an international governing body for
basketball which conducts a real world championship.

Casey

Ken Papai said:

So, since the best league ("division one"😉 in the world is the NBA then naturally the NBA champs
team should rightfully carry the world champs title as well.

Ken, Can you go and tell the Yugoslavs that please? They are under the impression that they won
the World Basketball Championships in Indiana last year. Oh, and New Zealand finished ahead of
the US. STF

"Mike S." <mikeshaw2@coxDOTnet> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

Only popular in the 8 western euro countries? How do you explain ME "racing" cross in San Diego
this winter?? Geez, get your head out of your ass Verbruggen

Right that makes it's popular. In this case I think Hein is more clued in than you are.

It's the same few riders that do the races. The only reason there are so many 'cross races is
because it's the easiest kind of race to put on (which is good).

-Amit

If the racing around here is any indication, then 'cross is on the way up, rather than down. Seems
more and more people are getting into 'cross. While I'm not close to being a pro, there has to be
something to this 'cross thing if we're racing in San Diego.

We had season long series both here an LA, I know that there were races in the DC area, Tenn, etc.
Its kinda like mtn biking was when I first started: a few dedicated types convincing their friends
to try it, who convince their friends, etc.

Mike "Amit" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"Mike S." <mikeshaw2@coxDOTnet> wrote in message

news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Only popular in the 8 western euro countries? How do you explain ME "racing" cross in San Diego
this winter?? Geez, get your head out of

your

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

ass Verbruggen

Right that makes it's popular. In this case I think Hein is more clued in than you are.

It's the same few riders that do the races. The only reason there are so many 'cross races is
because it's the easiest kind of race to put on (which is good).

-Amit

"Mike S." <mikeshaw2@coxDOTnet> wrote in message

Quoted message said:

Its kinda like mtn biking was when I first started: a few dedicated types convincing their friends
to try it, who convince

their

Quoted message said:

friends, etc.

Like multilevel marketing.

In article <[email hidden]>, "Demetrius di Carravallo"

Quoted message said:

"Ken Papai" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:_Ue0a.786$iG3.311@sccrnsc02...

Quoted message said:

"Carl Sundquist" <[email protected]...

Quoted message said:

(fake) wrote in message
>
> Hein, if cyclocross is a regional sport with no potential to involve the rest of the world,
> then how does your organization justify holding a world championship in it?

Like the NBA, NFL and MLB?

MLB and the NBA certainly have a significant percentage of foreign-born players.

Basketball and Soccer are probably the two most widely played team sports in the world.

So, since the best league ("division one"😉 in the world is the NBA then naturally the NBA champs
team should rightfully carry the world champs title as well.

The winner of the "World Series" in MLB wouldn't necessarily win vs. the rest of the world. The
professional leagues in Cuba and Japan are good. I'd wager that if a championship of the pro
leagues was held, MLB would lose once or twice every ten years.

Despite the popular misapprehension, the "World Series" was named for its original title sponsor,
the New York World (a newspaper). I suppose it has taken on other meanings since then, but the World
Series name is just an accident of history, not an assertion of global supremacy.

There has been little player exchange between the MLB and Cuban leagues, but I find it educational
that several elite Japanese players have come to the MLB and thrived, while in the other direction
MLB players in their twilight years have gone to Japan to play a few more productive years. It
suggests that the differences in play between Japan and the MLB are not large, but that however you
analyze it, the MLB is the superior league.

Quoted message said:

As for basketball, a US team full of NBA players lost 3 times in last summer's World Championships
in Indianapolis. They had the most talent, but didn't play together well. They got schooled by
squads which played good defense and ran disciplined motion offenses. Many a backdoor layup was
had vs. the unenergetic US defense.

There's a Nobel prize in Athletics awaiting the NBA coach who actually implements a disciplined set
of offensive and defensive plays.

ObBike: almost makes you glad there's not much money in cycling, eh?

--
Ryan Cousineau, [email hidden] sfu.ca~rcousineOpen ↗ President, Fabrizio Mazzoleni Fan Club