Papa Joe wrote:
|| On Sun, 7 Nov 2004 13:05:00 -0500, "Roger Zoul"
|| <[email hidden]> wrote:
||
||| Papa Joe wrote:
||||| On Fri, 5 Nov 2004 10:34:11 -0500, "Roger Zoul"
||||| <[email hidden]> wrote:
|||||
|||||| Papa Joe wrote:
|||||||| Hi
|||||||| I am not sure if I agree that low carb means high fat. While
|||||||| it,
|||||||| in
|||||||| reality could be, it is not necessarily so.
||||||||
|||||||| Probably one who is not in continuous ketosis would either need
|||||||| fat
|||||||| or
|||||||| more carbs to satisfy the energy requirements, one who is in
|||||||| ketosis
|||||||| gets the fat elsewhere.
||||||||
|||||||| However, one could eat low carb foods and lay off the fat and
|||||||| still exist......at least I think so!
||||||||
|||||||| I don't eat a high fat diet and I am a low carb
|||||||| individual...granted
|||||||| for only 4 months or so, but, still, it is a low carb diet for
|||||||| me.
|||||||| I do not shun fat but do not look for it either.
|||||||
|||||| What we mean by a high fat diet is that the greatest precentage
|||||| of
|||||| calories
|||||| comes from fat. If your goal is weight loss, that typically does
|||||| not imply eating a lot of fat.
||||||
|||||| If you want to know for sure, simply use fitday.com to track your
|||||| eating for
|||||| a month or so. Most foods on a LC diet other than veggies are
|||||| high
|||||| fat. So unless you're only eating lean meat, lean fish & veggies
|||||| with no dressing,
|||||| you're likely getting a lot of your calories from fat.
|||||
||||| ........you mean no/low fat from the lean meat, fish and veggies
||||| with
||||| no dressing.....eggs, LC cereal, no fat&Low carb milk,
||||| Strawberries,
||||| and the food you mention do not ring true to high fat foods.
|||
||| I'm sorry, but i don't understand what you mean.
|| *********...I am just taking your words "Most foods on a LC diet
|| other than veggies are high| fat. So unless you're only eating lean
|| meat, lean fish & veggies" and saying I don't agree entirely, that's
|| all. That is what I eat and it/they are not what most would call high
|| fat. Yes, I know that Atkins does not restrict fat but in his book he
|| also uses 'sensible' a lot--I don't fill up on bacon and do look for
|| the leaner hamburger, but, mostly I eat what you refer to as high
|| fat--(Most foods on a LC diet other than veggies are high
|| fat. So unless you're only eating lean meat, lean fish & veggies
|| with no dressing" and disagreeing a bit as I do not consider them
|| high fat.
Okay, I think I follow you now. The thing is, protein will end up
converting to glucose in the body at a rate of 58%. So, if by getting your
calories from mostly protein and veggies, you could be knocking yourself out
of ketosis. And if you're not careful, you can have some other issues.
Aside from that, eating mostly lean meat & fish, and veggies with no dress
is boring and tasteless. How long have you been LCing? I hope you tell me 3
to 5 years, for if not, then it is doubtful in my mind that you'll be able
to continue.
||
||
||||| is
||||| in ketosis, I understood that the calories are mostly coming from
||||| the 'dissolved' fat.....and the under 25 carbs per day along with
||||| some
||||| unavoidable fat.....
|||
||| ? Again, I don't follow you. On a typical LC, Atkins style diet,
||| fat is not restricted, carbs are.
||
|| ..again, I am referring to Low carb and not Atkins--fat should be
|| restricted, IMHO, as excess of anything other than money or ??? is
|| not
|| good.
Consider this. You're either maintaining weight or losing (hopefully).
Therefore, you're not eating in excess. So if you're eating other things
beside fat, such as protein and veggie, then you definitely aren't eating
excessive amounts of fat.
Who says fat should be restricted? If in the presense are carbs, you'd
better be careful. But on a carb controlled diet, fat won't be harmful.
|| I think we are all here because we know carbs are restricted--hence
|| the title of the ng...
||
||
|| So if you eat meat, cheese, eggs, cream, fatty fish,(he(Atkins)
|| mentions the kinds of fish to avoid(fatty specimens)).
Like salmon? Avoid salmon?
The cream and
|| cheese I do not restrict but I am usually full so eating is just out
|| of habit! The eggs are one thing I have cut way back on since finding
|| the variety of low carb cereals--they are enjoyable with the low carb
|| milk and some strawberries, so the breakfast variety is opened a
|| little wider.
what LC cereals are you referring to? What are they made of? The ones that
contain flax have fairly high fat content.
||| nuts, etc, then you're going to be eating a goodly amount of fat.
||| Not neces sarily a lot of fat, because if your goal is weight loss
||| then carb
||| restriction will likely enable you to eat less food, and those lose
||| weight.
|||
|||||
||||| If one is a low carber , the goal may not be weight loss but that
||||| may
||||| be a by product of what is currently considered to be smart eating
||||| habits.
|||
||| Okay.
|||
|||||
||||| Dr Atkins just advised that a sensible amount of fat be ingested,
||||| but
||||| that restricted carbs were the key to both better health and
||||| weight
||||| loss. He did not say High Fat.
|||
||| What is a sensible amount of fat and what is high fat? I gave you
||| my
||| definition of high fat. If you are getting enough protein in your
||| diet,
||| then a sensible fat intake may be upto the amount it takes to
||| maintain your current weight. Fat, like carbs, aren't inherently
||| evil.
||
|| I look at it this way, which suits me and I cannot get an answer if
|| it
|| is correct or not:
||
|| If I can make the ketostix 'show' a bit, I am on the edge of having
|| enough carbs to maintain ketosis and, if I am either not gaining
|| weight or continue to lose, then I must not be eating very much fat.
What? I'd say your carb content is under control, but you could be eating
a goodly precentage of your diet in fat.
|| It works for me. My only concern, which I stated in an earlier post,
|| is how much of a problem is long term ketosis.....and, what is long
|| term? Now, I am eating an awful lot of food, not gaining weight and
|| keeping either a trace or better on the stix.
I don't think there is any problem with long-term ketosis. The body is
designed to function in ketosis and mankind is designed to strive on
different diets. To suggest that there is a problem with long-term ketosis
(without strong evidence to think such) is just to be a creator of FUD - the
notion that if mankind hasn't researched it and given long-term ketosis its
blessing, then it isn't safe to do. Nonsense. Mankind has been wrong so
many times in the pass that we have little reason to place such trust in its
ability to prove and issue one way or the other.
||
|| Heck, here is yesterdays eats:
|| Breakfast-large bowl of cereal with refill--say 15 grams....
What is your cereal? Many of the ones I've seen are high in fat content.
|| no lunch...did not feel like eating.
|| supper--2 slices of low carb bread(5 grams per slice) with sausage
|| and peppers(12)..2 glasses of low carb/low fat milk(6) and an
|| apple(12)..3 gram low carb candy bar at 1145PM...Low Carb Nacho Chip
|| 'Crumbs'...5
|| ...days total about 53.
be careful with the candy....it may be higher in carbs than the package
would lead you to believe. BTW, I got 63g.
||
|| I spent the day feeling filled and went to bed the same way. Woke up
|| and was at the same weight as the last two days.
|| As soon as I finsh the carton of low fat low carb milk, I am going to
|| 'regular' low fat milk to reduce the container congestion in the
|| 'fridge.
|| To me, that is both a lot of food and typical for me and not high
|| fat.
|| Sausage was pretty lean but still had fat content.
||
|| Heck we all are on the same page here. I really appreciate having a
|| place to read, discuss and look for insights...and add posts myself.
|| Thankfully there is a ng like this one where we can share.
|| I think usenet is the best part of the 'Internet'.
||
|| I thank all for their input and for putting up with mine.
|| Joe
||
|||
|||||
||||| I like this ng.
||||| Joe
||||| you don't have to
|||||| hunt it down, either, it just comes with the terrority. Also, it
|||||| is fairly
|||||| easy to control sat fat intake while eating a high fat LC diet.
|||||| My
|||||| sat fat intake rarely goes above 20% of overall calories.
||||||
||||||
|||||||
|||||||| FWIW.
|||||||| Joe
||||||||
||||||||
||||||||
|||||||| On Thu, 4 Nov 2004 08:12:17 -0500, "Roger Zoul"
|||||||| <[email hidden]> wrote:
||||||||
||||||||| Papa Joe wrote:
||||||||||| Hi
||||||||||| I read an
|||||||||||
|||||||||
||||||
|||
article(http://www.xposed.com/health/nutrition/pasta_fights_back_amid_low-ca
||||||||| rb_trend.aspx)
||||||||||| that spoke about pasta and how it(companies) is fighting
||||||||||| back
||||||||||| against low carbing..which is OK.
|||||||||||
||||||||||| But, I find one quote to be disturbing and probably
||||||||||| incorrect--I
||||||||||| know it is for me anyway--it goes:
|||||||||||
||||||||||| "How is it that it can be called a low-carb diet when in
||||||||||| fact
||||||||||| it
||||||||||| is a dangerous high-fat diet? How can that happen in our
||||||||||| culture?" railed K. Dun Gifford, president of the Oldways
||||||||||| Preservation Trust, the Boston-based food issues think tank
||||||||||| that
||||||||||| organized the event."
|||||||||
|||||||||
||||||||| The statement is incorrect, obviously. LC typically is a
||||||||| high-fat
||||||||| diet. That part is true. It is also a low-carb diet, so that
||||||||| is
||||||||| true. However, for most, it is not a dangerous diet at all.
||||||||| It
||||||||| is
||||||||| the so-called standard American diet that is dangerous,
||||||||| because
||||||||| it
||||||||| comes lots of carbs and lots of fat, along with an excess of
||||||||| calories. That combination is a killer. Also, for those who
||||||||| do
||||||||| well on a low-carb diet (diabetics and people with insulin
||||||||| resistance issues), a low-fat diet can be dangerous too.
|||||||||
|||||||||
|||||||||||
||||||||||| I don't know about others, but I do not find that the foods
||||||||||| I
||||||||||| eat
||||||||||| are any more high fat than those who are not low carbing.
|||||||||
||||||||| That can be very true. Those who are not low carbing and not
||||||||| eating low fat are probably getting plenty of fat and plenty
||||||||| of
||||||||| carbs. You've removed the carbs, which result in
||||||||| normalization
||||||||| of
||||||||| BG levels, resulting in reduced appetite. As are, you're not
||||||||| hungry on fewer calories than previously and you can lose
