Veloflex Clinchers....anyone own them?

[email hidden] (Michael) wrote in news:846f81e4.0401080824.2011ace8
@posting.google.com:

Quoted message said:

I'm looking for someone who owns them to give me some feedback. I currently use the Michelin Axial
Pros....looking for a new tire for fast riding with an occasional criterium race.

Thanks!

I'm using the Veoflex Pave and i'm very satisfied with it; the best clincher i ever rode! Most
noticeable feauture is its riding comfort; it feels almost like a sew- up! After riding it for the
first time i couldn't stand the hard ride of the Conti GP anymore.

Martin

Michael said:

I'm looking for someone who owns them to give me some feedback. I currently use the Michelin Axial
Pros....looking for a new tire for fast riding with an occasional criterium race.

Thanks!

Yes, I mounted Veloflex Master (170 g) on my wheels this past autumn. Only rode 400 km on them
before I switched back to my Michelin Megamium (250 g) for ugly winter roads and trainer use, but I
found the lightness of the Veloflex to be noticeable and yes they did roll slightly easier, with the
20 mm section. No punctures encountered despite the light tyre but I may just have been lucky so
far, touch wood. I will use these tyres on the new wheels I'll build in March.

A bit of a PITA to mount them for the first time without using tools (Veloflex's recommendation is
to *not* use tools, in order to avoid damage), but they stretch a bit after a couple of weeks so
they're then fairly easy to remove without tools. Downside of this is that they have to be carefully
aligned so that the bead is well down the rim, to reduce risk for side blowout.

FWIW, the "Kevlar" designation on the tyre does *not* indicate that there is a Kevlar strip under
the tread; rather it means that the side bead is made of Kevlar for lightness and foldability,
according to my LBS (the V. Master costs equiv. USD 50 here in Sweden).

I was about to buy the Veloflex Record (130 g) but something told me that they would puncture more
easily. So I resisted.

I too am interested in hearing other people's experiences with the Veloflex clinchers.

/Robert

I got 30 miles out of a pair before a deep cut ruined one. A more experienced person suggested that
heavy riders would not find them robust enough. I think that's right.

"Michael" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I'm looking for someone who owns them to give me some feedback. I currently use the Michelin Axial
Pros....looking for a new tire for fast riding with an occasional criterium race.

Thanks!

Michael said:

I'm looking for someone who owns them to give me some feedback. I currently use the Michelin Axial
Pros....looking for a new tire for fast riding with an occasional criterium race.

I bought a pair of Veloflex paves (700x22, ~180 grams) late last summer. Had been using Michelins
(700x23, ~225 grams) for a few years before that. Same bike, same everything else, just changed the
tires. I inflated the Michelins to 115-120, and run the Veloflexes at about the same.

Observations:
1) Extremely supple casing, as one would expect from a handmade tire. Feels just like a handmade
sewup casing. (Again, as it should, it's pretty much the same thing). I thought they mounted
fairly easily on old Campagnolo Lambda aero rims; with the Michelins I need to use tools.

2) Boy do they look good. (I'm a tan-sidewall chauvinist, and it's getting harder and harder to find
such tires). Tread is *very* straight, straighter than I remember Clement Criterium Seta treads
in the 80's.

3) I am extremely cynical about these things, but in repeated trials over a constant course, my
times were faster than they had been for many years. Hard to believe such a small change in tires
could do that; maybe it's just an extra-powerful placebo effect. See Prarie Home Companion's 'Extra-
strength placebo' advertisements. 🙂

4) For the first few months I was extremely careful about checking for cuts and avoiding glass, then
I got lazy. Casing survival is much better than I feared (I wasn't expecting much).

5) Now as to ride feel: After the vulcanized, stiff-casing Michelins, the bike now seems "twitchy"
in the steering. Just to make sure, after the first few rides, I switched back to the Michelins,
did a few rides, and back to the Veloflex. The effect did indeed repeat - the Veloflexes are
markedly twitchier than the Michelins. After a month or two, I forgot about it, but I'm reminded
in any gusty sidewind - the bike seems to squirm around more than it did w/ Michelins. A wild
guess why - the suppler casing (and softer rubber?) conforms to the road better and is grippier -
where the Michelins may have scrubbed/slipped slightly, the Veloflex grip. Again, this is only my
impression, I really don't know what to make of this. I would guess the Veloflexes would corner
better than the Michelins, but I don't push the envelope there, so I'm a poor judge. I am sure
that the veloflexes won't steer "on autopilot" as well as the Michelins did.

6) Durability: I have about 900 miles on the rear, and the seemingly-only-for-decoration tread is
just beginning to go away near the center of the tire. The pavement is fairly good here, though
the counties around here are switching to a very coarse chip seal to save $. Bike+rider weight
around 190 lbs.

All in all, I like them, and plan to buy more (but not at list price - there are some deeply
discounted sources out there).

Mark Janeba

How do they compare to Vittoria Open Corsa?

~PB

Allan Leedy said:

I got 30 miles out of a pair before a deep cut ruined one. A more experienced person suggested
that heavy riders would not find them robust enough. I think that's right.

Good point. Would the OP pls tell us how much he weighs, and something about the road quality /
cleanliness of the crit circuits he'll us them on? An extra 30-40 grams of weight per wheel may
serve as good insurance, though some situations will cause a flat, no matter what the tyre. /Robert

Extremely similar. They are made in the old Vittoria factory after the Vittoria production went
to Thailand.

Bruce

"Pete Biggs" <[email hidden]> wrote in message -"]news:[email hidden]-
berlin.de...

Quoted message said:

How do they compare to Vittoria Open Corsa?

~PB

I used the Pave for about a month. While they are very attractive tires, they are based on pretty
old technology.

The casing is infact a cut tubular, and while this may sound good, in practise you get a very hard
ride. This may seem like a less resistant ride, however, it is not. As the tire is not very
flexible, you infact are getting a harsher ride.

I switched to Vredestein Fortezzas, which pump up to 145 (as opposed to the Pave's 120) and I get a
less resistant, and softer ride.

Jay

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"Michael" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I'm looking for someone who owns them to give me some feedback. I currently use the Michelin Axial
Pros....looking for a new tire for fast riding with an occasional criterium race.

Thanks!

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"Mark Janeba" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:2whLb.781900$Tr4.2237049@attbi_s03...

Quoted message said:

Michael said:

I'm looking for someone who owns them to give me some

feedback.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I currently use the Michelin Axial Pros....looking for a new

tire for

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

fast riding with an occasional criterium race.

I bought a pair of Veloflex paves (700x22, ~180 grams) late

last summer.

Quoted message said:

Had been using Michelins (700x23, ~225 grams) for a few years

before

Quoted message said:

that. Same bike, same everything else, just changed the tires.

I

Quoted message said:

inflated the Michelins to 115-120, and run the Veloflexes at

about the same.

Quoted message said:

Observations:
1) Extremely supple casing, as one would expect from a handmade

tire.

Quoted message said:

Feels just like a handmade sewup casing. (Again, as it should,

it's

Quoted message said:

pretty much the same thing). I thought they mounted fairly

easily on

Quoted message said:

old Campagnolo Lambda aero rims; with the Michelins I need to

use tools.

Quoted message said:

2) Boy do they look good. (I'm a tan-sidewall chauvinist, and

it's

Quoted message said:

getting harder and harder to find such tires). Tread is *very* straight, straighter than I
remember Clement Criterium Seta

treads in

Quoted message said:

the 80's.

3) I am extremely cynical about these things, but in repeated

trials

Quoted message said:

over a constant course, my times were faster than they had been

for many

Quoted message said:

years. Hard to believe such a small change in tires could do

that;

Quoted message said:

maybe it's just an extra-powerful placebo effect. See Prarie

Home

Quoted message said:

Companion's 'Extra-strength placebo' advertisements. 🙂

4) For the first few months I was extremely careful about

checking for

Quoted message said:

cuts and avoiding glass, then I got lazy. Casing survival is

much

Quoted message said:

better than I feared (I wasn't expecting much).

5) Now as to ride feel: After the vulcanized, stiff-casing

Michelins,

Quoted message said:

the bike now seems "twitchy" in the steering. Just to make

sure, after

Quoted message said:

the first few rides, I switched back to the Michelins, did a

few rides,

Quoted message said:

and back to the Veloflex. The effect did indeed repeat - the

Veloflexes

Quoted message said:

are markedly twitchier than the Michelins. After a month or

two, I

Quoted message said:

forgot about it, but I'm reminded in any gusty sidewind - the

bike seems

Quoted message said:

to squirm around more than it did w/ Michelins. A wild guess

why - the

Quoted message said:

suppler casing (and softer rubber?) conforms to the road better

and is

Quoted message said:

grippier - where the Michelins may have scrubbed/slipped

slightly, the

Quoted message said:

Veloflex grip. Again, this is only my impression, I really

don't know

Quoted message said:

what to make of this. I would guess the Veloflexes would

corner better

Quoted message said:

than the Michelins, but I don't push the envelope there, so I'm

a poor

Quoted message said:

judge. I am sure that the veloflexes won't steer "on

autopilot" as well

Quoted message said:

as the Michelins did.

6) Durability: I have about 900 miles on the rear, and the seemingly-only-for-decoration tread is
just beginning to go

away near

Quoted message said:

the center of the tire. The pavement is fairly good here,

though the

Quoted message said:

counties around here are switching to a very coarse chip seal

to save $.

Quoted message said:

Bike+rider weight around 190 lbs.

All in all, I like them, and plan to buy more (but not at list

price -

Quoted message said:

there are some deeply discounted sources out there).

Mark Janeba

What are you using for a tube. -- Jay Beattie.

Jay Beattie said:

What are you using for a tube. -- Jay Beattie.

Michelin ultralights (butyl), mostly. Other similar tubes at times. But note, the same tubes for
both the Michelins and the Veloflexes.

Mark Janeba

[email hidden] (Michael) wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

I'm looking for someone who owns them to give me some feedback. I currently use the Michelin Axial
Pros....looking for a new tire for fast riding with an occasional criterium race.

Thanks!

I used them for a couple of season about 6 years ago. At that time there were three versions
(record, servizio corse and superstar). They've changes the names a bit since with the servizio
corse=>corsa and superstar=>pave. I used them purely for racing and at that time I thought they were
the "fastest" clincher tires available. The ride quality was excellent on both smooth and rough
roads but the big plus for road racing was that they accelerated very fast. At that time I was one
of the few racers in my area using them (you could only get them direct from Italy) and I did feel I
had a slight advantage over other racers using clinchers. I thought the ride quality was as good as
any quality road tubular (excluding the ability to withstand pinch flats).

They also look fantastic (probably one of the most attractive tires ever produced). Everything is a
trade off and on the down side I dont think they are as durable as Continental or Michelin in term
of longevity or reliability. Also if you ride/race in the wet which I invariably do, they dont clean
very well and the sidewall discolours.

I did have a lot of pleasurable experiences using them but this was somewhat soured by tire blowoff
at crictical times in races (on 3 occasions). I put this down to the use of light weight latex
tubes which at the time I though were a great idea to use with clincher tires. I have never used
latex tubes since. So I would advise using buthyl tubes with veloflex - infact use them with all
clincher tires.

Robert Brown <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

Allan Leedy said:

I got 30 miles out of a pair before a deep cut ruined one. A more experienced person suggested
that heavy riders would not find them robust enough. I think that's right.

Good point. Would the OP pls tell us how much he weighs, and something about the road quality
/ cleanliness of the crit circuits he'll us them on? An extra 30-40 grams of weight per wheel
may serve as good insurance, though some situations will cause a flat, no matter what the
tyre. /Robert

I'm 6'2" weigh 180..So far the road quality of the crits has been ok...meaning the paving is good
and the corners are swept clean. So..I guess i'd like to be conservative...I don't want to worry
about my tires all the time.....and these tires will be on my "race day" wheels.

Michael said:

Robert Brown <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

Allan Leedy said:

I got 30 miles out of a pair before a deep cut ruined one. A more experienced person suggested
that heavy riders would not find them robust enough. I think that's right.

Good point. Would the OP pls tell us how much he weighs, and something about the road quality /
cleanliness of the crit circuits he'll us them on? An extra 30-40 grams of weight per wheel may
serve as good insurance, though some situations will cause a flat, no matter what the tyre.
/Robert

I'm 6'2" weigh 180..So far the road quality of the crits has been ok...meaning the paving is good
and the corners are swept clean. So..I guess i'd like to be conservative...I don't want to worry
about my tires all the time.....and these tires will be on my "race day" wheels.

Yeah, it's always a bit of a lottery. But if the roads are good as you say, and if you get a boost
in some way from using the lighter Veloflexes, then do buy them, they are truly wonderful tyres.
Best tubular imitation I've ever ridden. You're not so heavy so they should work out fine. But don't
use butyl tubes, that would be sacrilege. Nice latex tubes of ca. 70 g gives a nice ride.

As far as worrying about punctures goes, you could always buy a set (try the Master or the Pavé; the
Record had that "world record or bust" look in my hands) and do a few longer training sessions on
some slightly [censored] roads. When they *don't* puncture on your training runs, then you'll probably
enjoy and feel secure racing on them (false sense of security or not . . .).

I'd say ride with the lightest you feel is reasonable. The day you puncture, in the lead, 100m from
the finish line in the final sprint, *then* you can start reviewing your estimates of what "too
light" really is. Until then, have fun with them. A nice hand-built tyre is a great experience.

/Robert

Michael said:

I'm looking for someone who owns them to give me some feedback. I currently use the Michelin Axial
Pros....looking for a new tire for fast riding with an occasional criterium race.

Michelin Axial Pros in a different color?

--
Andrew Muzi www.yellowjersey.org Open every day since 1 April, 1971