Veloce or Centaur?

Blair P. Houghton said:

Or should I just bite it and consider Record?

--Blair
"Shut up, Bill."

Centaur is great value and very close in design to Record.
Since you didn't specify which components or if you are talking; or the whole group, you will find various opinions on various components.
The Ergonomics, design, and materials of the Chorus levers is particularly nice to my hands. Chorus hubs are lighter than Record because they have all the alloy weight savings parts and don't have the grease port.

"daveornee" <[email hidden]> wrote in
message news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Chorus hubs are lighter than Record
because they have all the alloy weight savings parts >and don't have the
grease port.

Actually that is not quite correct. A Record rear hub, WITHOUT SKEWERS,
weighs about 250g; Chorus about 260g; Centaur a bit more 264g. The Centaur
is actually the "best buy" as all three have exactly the same innards.

For some, another "advantage" of Centaur over Record and Chorus is if you
want silver/aluminum ergo levers, as oppose to carbon. Centaur is a great
deal for the money.

daveornee said:

Blair P. Houghton said:

Or should I just bite it and consider Record?

Centaur is great value and very close in design to Record.
Since you didn't specify which components or if you are talking; or the
whole group, you will find various opinions on various components.

The impetus is that I need a change in my rear gears.
I've got two big gaps from 18 to 16 to 14. But my stuff
is really old, so getting the 15- and 17-tooth cogs
and installing them on my 6-speed would be enough
trouble that I'm considering getting modern stuff.

So I'd need a new cassette. Which requires a new rear
hub, chain, both derailleurs, crankset, and shifters,
because I couldn't change one out and hope the remaining
old parts of the tranny would be compatible.

And I might as well get new brakes and wheels.

But I'm keeping the handlebars. Cinelli made good stuff.

The only compatibility problem I might have is with the
cable runs. Mine are exposed wire running over metal fins
brazed to the frame. Could interfere with enclosed cables
for the indexing system.

--Blair
"Tube dreams."

P.S. So is Veloce not a buy if Centaur is in play?

quote='Blair P. Houghton'daveornee said:

Blair P. Houghton said:

Or should I just bite it and consider Record?

Centaur is great value and very close in design to Record.
Since you didn't specify which components or if you are talking; or the
whole group, you will find various opinions on various components.

The impetus is that I need a change in my rear gears.
I've got two big gaps from 18 to 16 to 14. But my stuff
is really old, so getting the 15- and 17-tooth cogs
and installing them on my 6-speed would be enough
trouble that I'm considering getting modern stuff.

So I'd need a new cassette. Which requires a new rear
hub, chain, both derailleurs, crankset, and shifters,
because I couldn't change one out and hope the remaining
old parts of the tranny would be compatible.

And I might as well get new brakes and wheels.

But I'm keeping the handlebars. Cinelli made good stuff.

The only compatibility problem I might have is with the
cable runs. Mine are exposed wire running over metal fins
brazed to the frame. Could interfere with enclosed cables
for the indexing system.

--Blair
"Tube dreams."

P.S. So is Veloce not a buy if Centaur is in play?[/QUOTE]

Both are good. Centaur has much of the benefits of Chorus and Record at reduced prices.
Take a look in your wallet and see what you think.
Also take a look and feel of the quality involved.
Peter Chisholm is a great resource for Campagnolo information and the important details. He can help you sort through the "compare and contrast" stuff. I know that if I could afford all Centaur over Veloce, I would go for it.
I think Peter can also help you through your cable housing "issues" if there really are any.
It sounds like you are in for a big change. Enjoy the journey and get good advice.

bfd said:

Actually that is not quite correct. A Record rear hub, WITHOUT SKEWERS,
weighs about 250g; Chorus about 260g; Centaur a bit more 264g. The Centaur
is actually the "best buy" as all three have exactly the same innards.

I personally chose Chorus hubs over Centaur when I otherwise built up my
bike with Centaur parts. The price difference between the hubs wasn't
significant and the adjustment with an allen wrench instead of a
screwdriver seems like a definite plus. I never thought the grease ports
are necessary, so the Record hubs only make sense if you need the 28-hole
option or like the aesthetics of the Record quick releases that much more.

Quoted message said:

For some, another "advantage" of Centaur over Record and Chorus is if you
want silver/aluminum ergo levers, as oppose to carbon. Centaur is a great
deal for the money.

As is Veloce. In 2005 there's a Centaur bottom bracket which is
technically the same as Chorus but fits the Mirage, Veloce and Centaur
cranks. So IMHO, a Veloce group with the Centaur bottom bracket could
be a great deal. On the other hand, I've had absolutely no problems
with the cheap AC-H bottom bracket in the first 20,000 kilometres.

-as

daveornee said:

Chorus hubs are lighter than Record
because they have all the alloy weight savings parts and don't have the
grease port.

not entirely true!

Record front hub: 181g
Chorus front hub: 180g
Record rear hub: 316g (titanium pawl)
Chorus rear hub: 326g (steel pawl)

--
Morten Reippuert Knudsen :-) <http://blog.reippuert.dk>

PowerMac G5: 1.6GHz, 1.25GB RAM, 300+80GB Disk, 8xDVD+/-RW, Bluetooth
mus+tastatur, FX5200 Ultra, iSight, eyeTV200 & LaCie Photon18Vision TFT

Blair P. Houghton said:

Or should I just bite it and consider Record?

--Blair
"Shut up, Bill."

I'd go with Chorus hubs (which had been like $10 or less more than
Centaur). They differ from Centaur in the lock/adjustment ring.
Centaur has a screw, which then requires a thin wrench to turn. Chorus
has a 2.5mm hex screw. I can usually do my final adjustment just using
the hex wrench to turn the ring.

If ya' gotta have 28 spokes, Record is your only option.

Other than the hubs, Veloce would probably function as well as Centaur.

Blair-<< Or should I just bite it and consider Record?

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

<BR><BR>

I think for the best value...2005 Veloce all around with Centaur hubs and
BB....

Peter Chisholm
Vecchio's Bicicletteria
1833 Pearl St.
Boulder, CO, 80302
(303)440-3535
http://www.vecchios.com
"Ruote convenzionali costruite eccezionalmente bene"

Dave-<< Chorus hubs are lighter than Record
because they have all the alloy weight savings parts and don't have the
grease port. >><BR><BR>

Record rear hub-314g
Record front hub-181g

Chorus rear hub-326g
Chorus front hub-180g

Centaur rear hub-332g
Centaur front hub-184g

WITH skewers-Record has a ti pawl carrier-

Peter Chisholm
Vecchio's Bicicletteria
1833 Pearl St.
Boulder, CO, 80302
(303)440-3535
http://www.vecchios.com
"Ruote convenzionali costruite eccezionalmente bene"

Centaur and Veloce ERGO levers are identical with the 'hole' in the Centaur
shift blade the only difference.

Peter Chisholm
Vecchio's Bicicletteria
1833 Pearl St.
Boulder, CO, 80302
(303)440-3535
http://www.vecchios.com
"Ruote convenzionali costruite eccezionalmente bene"

Dave-<< Peter Chisholm is a great resource for Campagnolo information and the
important details. >><BR><BR>

Thank you for the compliment-

Peter Chisholm
Vecchio's Bicicletteria
1833 Pearl St.
Boulder, CO, 80302
(303)440-3535
http://www.vecchios.com
"Ruote convenzionali costruite eccezionalmente bene"

"Morten Reippuert Knudsen" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

daveornee said:

Chorus hubs are lighter than Record
because they have all the alloy weight savings parts and don't have the
grease port.

not entirely true!

Record front hub: 181g
Chorus front hub: 180g
Record rear hub: 316g (titanium pawl)
Chorus rear hub: 326g (steel pawl)

--

Agree. It should be noted that the above weights INCLUDE SKEWERS!

"Blair P. Houghton" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Or should I just bite it and consider Record?

--Blair
"Shut up, Bill."

Bad news (for anyone that wants a clear answer), Chorus looks better than
ever with no less than 3 choices (maybe more) for cranks that are nearly the
same as previous Record cranks but costing a bit less. I honestly would go
component by component and upgrade to Chorus for best function and then each
component to Record if you care about that last upgrade of appearance and
weight. Even BB and cranks can be shared between Record and Chorus.

Here is what I recommend:

Chorus or better shift / brake levers
Centaur or better calipers
Chorus BB
Chorus or better Crank, don't forget to consider CT
Centaur or better front derailleur
Chorus or better rear derailleur
Headset, not sure which is best value I only have Record
Seatpost, I do not know which if any are best. I always used another brand
Cassette any, depends on price. THe Record steel\ti make some sense if you
want to spend that much but I would stay away from the all ti. The all steel
Chorus works great and lasts "forever", I have yet to change any 10 speed
cassettes in use, including one in use since first available

"Blair P. Houghton" <[email hidden]> wrote in message

Quoted message said:

The only compatibility problem I might have is with the
cable runs. Mine are exposed wire running over metal fins
brazed to the frame. Could interfere with enclosed cables
for the indexing system.

I am sure you will be fine. Where are they exposed? I have 2 bikes with
exposed cable runs except at both ends (handlebars and component ends) and
the shifting is amazing and touble free. Then again, I started to use Ergo
shiftersin '93 and I probably am trained to take care of some issues that
would not come to you instinctively at this point. The indexed systems from
Campag are not nearly as finicky as one might think. Campag has aways
designed them to run well under raace conditions which means getting a spare
wheel with slightly different chainline, tweaked components from crashes,
etc. I am sure you can get it running on your current frame and workout any
problems with some help here or any other person that has used the system.

Blair P. Houghton said:

Or should I just bite it and consider Record?

Veloce works remarkably well for a low-end groupset. Especially if you
are upgrading from 6-speed (and perhaps your gear is even non-indexing
or early-model indexing?).

I bought a new bike 5 years ago with a mostly Veloce drivetrain and the
shifting was extremely good compared to campy pre-index and/or Suntour
index.

I used Chorus hubs on that bike, but have since put a veloce rear hub on
my "rain trainer" bike - it's working well, holding up very well and
looks very good.

Veloce doesn't have the glitz factor, but it works remarkably well.

Mark Janeba

Chris said:

"Blair P. Houghton" <[email hidden]> wrote in message

Quoted message said:

The only compatibility problem I might have is with the
cable runs. Mine are exposed wire running over metal fins
brazed to the frame. Could interfere with enclosed cables
for the indexing system.

I am sure you will be fine. Where are they exposed?

The brakes are enclosed completely, but the shifter
cables are bare from the downtube to the derailleur,
except a short bit to curve it from the chainstay to the
rear derailleur.

They make the bend at the bottom bracket by going under
the aforementioned little tongue of metal. Which I should
probably inspect. I bet it's taken some abrasion over the
years, being a steel cable on a steel widget under compression
and friction and vibration &c.

Quoted message said:

Campag has aways
designed them to run well under raace conditions which means getting a spare
wheel with slightly different chainline, tweaked components from crashes,
etc. I am sure you can get it running on your current frame and workout any
problems with some help here or any other person that has used the system.

I think I'll take it to the three more-competent LBS mechanic
shops and see if they react with confidence to the idea.

--Blair
"I may just bottom out with a new frame."