Vehicle Design (OT)

Could you post the abstract, for those of us who can no longer wander down
for a well spent hour browsing the shelving, or more aptly these days
without the relevant account?

Quoted message said:

Interesting read, albeit concentrating on car-truck crashes and manages
to claim that "seat belts have been the most successful of all vehicular
safety features".

Prolly have been, for occupants. I'm wondering whether the increase
related to risk compensation is wearing off now that increasing numbers of
drivers have always had to wear one?

John Hearns said:

Could you post the abstract, for those of us who can no longer wander down
for a well spent hour browsing the shelving, or more aptly these days
without the relevant account?

There isn't an abstract - it's a magazine article rather than an
officially peer-reviewed paper, although it's fully referenced. It's
online at www.physicstoday.org, but you have to pay, and I have the
paper copy just arrived in front of me.

R.

Mark Thompson said:

Quoted message said:

Interesting read, albeit concentrating on car-truck crashes and manages
to claim that "seat belts have been the most successful of all vehicular
safety features".

Prolly have been, for occupants. I'm wondering whether the increase
related to risk compensation is wearing off now that increasing numbers of
drivers have always had to wear one?

Risk compensation isn't mentioned. They do note that in the US,
Canada and Germany, "traffic deaths" [1] per million vehicles have been
pretty much the same in all three countries and falling steadily between
1985 and 1992; since then CA and DE deaths have continued the same
trend, whilst the rate of fall of US deaths/million vehicles has slowed,
and the actual number of US traffic deaths has *risen* steadily.

[1] deaths oof vehicle occupants, cyclists and pedestrians. The
reference for this data is given as www-fars.nhtsa.dot.gov, although I
haven't checked it out.

R.

Richard came up with the following;:

Quoted message said:

"Light trucks cannot safely coexist with passenger cars under existing
conditions. The problem becomes particularly urgent as more and more
light trucks are used simply as car substitutes."

Sounds like American based research. 'Light Trucks' are more normally
called vans in UK and may not be applicable in UK as the 'old' taxation
classes for company car drivers, which gave them tax breaks for running
'commercial' vehicles rather than cars, no longer apply in the same way.

--
Paul ...
(8(|) Homer Rules ..... Doh !!!

"Paul - [censored]" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Richard came up with the following;:

Quoted message said:

"Light trucks cannot safely coexist with passenger cars under existing
conditions. The problem becomes particularly urgent as more and more
light trucks are used simply as car substitutes."

Sounds like American based research. 'Light Trucks' are more normally
called vans in UK and may not be applicable in UK as the 'old' taxation
classes for company car drivers, which gave them tax breaks for running
'commercial' vehicles rather than cars, no longer apply in the same way.

Normally pickups, not vans. They're significantly more popular in the US
than here, and the tax breaks aren't the reason.

cheers,
clive

"Clive George" wrote

Quoted message said:

Normally pickups, not vans. They're significantly more popular in the US
than here, and the tax breaks aren't the reason.

cheers,
clive

Actually tax breaks to business owners have helped the sale of larger
pickups in the US, along with laxer emission control, fuel economy and
safety requirements for large pickups/light trucks. The truly grotesque
SUV's (Cadillac Escalade, Hummer H2, Lincoln Navigator) qualify as light
trucks due to some clever wording of federal law, which helped make them
very profitable to the US auto industry for a long time. Both vehicle types
are frequently purchased for "business use" and used extensively in
situations where a passenger car would be at least as appropriate, and the
purchase decision is frequently based in part on tax considerations.
--
mark

Clive George came up with the following;:

Quoted message said:

"Paul - [censored]" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Richard came up with the following;:

Quoted message said:

"Light trucks cannot safely coexist with passenger cars under existing
conditions. The problem becomes particularly urgent as more and more
light trucks are used simply as car substitutes."

Sounds like American based research. 'Light Trucks' are more normally
called vans in UK and may not be applicable in UK as the 'old' taxation
classes for company car drivers, which gave them tax breaks for running
'commercial' vehicles rather than cars, no longer apply in the same way.

Normally pickups, not vans.

Actually it was any 'commercial' vehicle that had a carryong capacity of
over a ton, roughly speaking. It just coincided quite nicely with the
offerings from Mitsubishi/Toyota?Nissan etc, it wasn't specifically for
pick-ups at all. My mum bought a Transit for her everyday use and gained
from the taxes. (Long story involving her modest company needs and her
partners disability requirements)

Quoted message said:

They're significantly more popular in the US
than here, and the tax breaks aren't the reason.

.... but the tax breaks and other laws relating to construction and
emmissions _are_ a significant reason why America has also seen a masive
proliferation of the extremely large and getting larger pick-up and which
they do mostly call light trucks.

Though how they can be called light escapes me ... 😉

--
Paul ...
(8(|) Homer Rules ..... Doh !!!

"Paul - [censored]" wrote

Quoted message said:

... but the tax breaks and other laws relating to construction and
emmissions _are_ a significant reason why America has also seen a masive
proliferation of the extremely large and getting larger pick-up and which
they do mostly call light trucks.

Though how they can be called light escapes me ... 😉

"Light" is a relative term. If you accept that the larger pick-ups are
indeed trucks and not just thinly disguised luxury vehicles or high
performance vehicles then they are indeed much lighter than an 18
wheeler...😉

As for "extremely large and getting larger", there does seem to be a certain
backlash building against these vehicles, and the auto makers seem to be
discounting them more and more heavily in order to sell them. Maybe I'm
grasping at straws, but the US auto market might be finally starting to
shift away from these motorized obscenities.
--
mark

"mark" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

As for "extremely large and getting larger", there does seem to be a
certain backlash building against these vehicles, and the auto makers seem
to be discounting them more and more heavily in order to sell them. Maybe
I'm grasping at straws, but the US auto market might be finally starting
to shift away from these motorized obscenities.

See Ford and GM - both suffering hugely, since they'd relied on sales of
these for the past few years. When petrol prices started rising, people
started buying normal cars instead - and Ford/GM just can't compete in that
market sector.

cheers,
clive

"Paul - [censored]" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Clive George came up with the following;:

Quoted message said:

"Paul - [censored]" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Richard came up with the following;:
> "Light trucks cannot safely coexist with passenger cars under existing
> conditions. The problem becomes particularly urgent as more and more
> light trucks are used simply as car substitutes."

Sounds like American based research. 'Light Trucks' are more normally
called vans in UK and may not be applicable in UK as the 'old' taxation
classes for company car drivers, which gave them tax breaks for running
'commercial' vehicles rather than cars, no longer apply in the same way.

Normally pickups, not vans.

Actually it was any 'commercial' vehicle that had a carryong capacity of
over a ton, roughly speaking. It just coincided quite nicely with the
offerings from Mitsubishi/Toyota?Nissan etc, it wasn't specifically for
pick-ups at all. My mum bought a Transit for her everyday use and gained
from the taxes. (Long story involving her modest company needs and her
partners disability requirements)

Cross purposes - I'm talking about 'light trucks' as mentioned in the
original paper, which is US based, you're talking about the UK. And they're
normally pickups over there - although they often have a shell.

cheers,
clive