Vegetarians have lower CHD risk than omnivores

How do you explain that the longest living people on this planet, the
Okinawans, are not vegetarians?

Just Cocky said:

How do you explain that the longest living people on this planet, the
Okinawans, are not vegetarians?

COMMENT:

Because it's just as Huxley suspected in _After Many A Summer Dies the
Swan_. A significant antiaging principle is to be found in fresh fish
and fish guts, and peoples who eat those, live longest (Japanese
including Okinawans, Icelanders, Pacific Islanders).

Vegans miss out in our closest present answer to an antiaging pill.

Sorry, you poor dumb vegan sods. Sorry, Monty-- maybe one of your
coconuts will hit you on the head hard enough to knock some sense into
it. Meanwhile I'm taking my fish oil and lots of it. 🙂. I urge all to
do the same.

SBH

"Just Cocky" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

How do you explain that the longest living people on this planet, the
Okinawans, are not vegetarians?

I don't. I do eat whole baby clams, organic yogurt,
and take Menhaden fish oil capsules. The rest of
my diet is vegan. Like the Buddha, I practice a
"middle way".

Georgie

"Sbharris[atsign]ix.netcom.com" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Just Cocky said:

How do you explain that the longest living people on this planet, the
Okinawans, are not vegetarians?

COMMENT:

Because it's just as Huxley suspected in _After Many A Summer Dies the
Swan_. A significant antiaging principle is to be found in fresh fish
and fish guts, and peoples who eat those, live longest (Japanese
including Okinawans, Icelanders, Pacific Islanders).

I wonder whether whole baby clams have much omega-3???
They have lots of evil heme iron. (I eat 'em every day.)

Quoted message said:

Vegans miss out in our closest present answer to an antiaging pill.

Veganism--for all its virtues--is extremism.
Practice a "middle way".

Quoted message said:

Sorry, you poor dumb vegan sods. Sorry, Monty-- maybe one of your
coconuts will hit you on the head hard enough to knock some sense into
it. Meanwhile I'm taking my fish oil and lots of it. 🙂

http://www.omega-pure.com/buycapsules.html
Yeah, with plenty of anti-oxidants, huh?

Quoted message said:

I urge all to
do the same.

SBH

Good advice, Doc.

Sbharrisatsignix.netcom.com said:

Just Cocky said:

How do you explain that the longest living people on this planet, the
Okinawans, are not vegetarians?

COMMENT:

Because it's just as Huxley suspected in _After Many A Summer Dies the
Swan_. A significant antiaging principle is to be found in fresh fish
and fish guts, and peoples who eat those, live longest (Japanese
including Okinawans, Icelanders, Pacific Islanders).

Vegans miss out in our closest present answer to an antiaging pill.

Sorry, you poor dumb vegan sods. Sorry, Monty-- maybe one of your
coconuts will hit you on the head hard enough to knock some sense into
it. Meanwhile I'm taking my fish oil and lots of it. 🙂. I urge all to
do the same.

SBH

I prefer cold water fatty fish like salmon, sardines, herring, etc to
fish oil capsules,although I do take cod liver oil in capsule form.

RBR

One problem I have with studies comparing vegetarians/vegans with
meat-eaters is that most vegetarians tend to be women. See a problem
yet?

RBR

George Cherry said:

1: Nutrition. 2004 Oct;20(10):863-6. Related Articles, Links

Effects of a long-term vegetarian diet on biomarkers of antioxidant status
and cardiovascular disease risk.

Szeto YT, Kwok TC, Benzie IF.

Antioxidant Research Team, School of Nursing, The Hong Kong Polytechnic
University, Kowloon, Hong Kong SAR, China.

OBJECTIVE: We compared plasma biomarkers of antioxidant status, oxidative
stress, inflammation, and risk for coronary heart disease in long-term
vegetarians and age- and sex-matched omnivores. METHODS: Thirty vegetarians
(mean age +/- standard deviation: 44.2 +/- 9.0 y) were recruited. The
subjects had been vegetarian for 5 to 55 y (21.8 +/- 12.2 y). The control
group comprised 30 adults selected by age-stratified sampling from a
community health project (mean age: 44.0 +/- 9.2 y). Fasting plasma total
antioxidant status (ferric-reducing antioxidant power), ascorbic acid (AA),
alpha-tocopherol (total and lipid standardized), malondialdehyde, total
cholesterol, triacylglycerol, uric acid (UA), and high-sensitivity
C-reactive protein (hsCRP) were measured. RESULTS: Plasma AA was
significantly higher in the vegetarians than in the omnivores (90.5 +/- 21.0
and 61.8 +/- 17.0 microM; P < 0.001). The vegetarians had lower
concentrations of triacylglycerol, UA, and hsCRP. Plasma total and
lipid-standardized alpha-tocopherol concentrations were also lower in the
vegetarians: 22.0 +/- 5.9 and 27.0 +/- 7.9 microM versus 3.76 +/- 0.57 and
4.23 +/- 0.58 microM per millimoles per liter of total cholesterol plus
triacylglycerol, respectively. There was a significant inverse correlation
between AA and UA (r = -0.343, P < 0.01; n = 60) and between AA and hsCRP (r
= -0.306, P < 0.05; n = 55). Plasma ferric-reducing antioxidant power and
malondialdehyde did not differ significantly between groups; however, the
contribution of AA to the total antioxidant capacity of plasma was
approximately 50% greater in the vegetarians. CONCLUSIONS: A long-term
vegetarian diet is associated with markedly higher fasting plasma AA
concentrations and lower concentrations of TAG, UA, and hsCRP. Long-term
vegetarians have a better antioxidant status and coronary heart disease risk
profile than do apparently healthy omnivores. Plasma AA may act a useful
marker of overall health status.

PMID: 15474873 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

"Sbharris[atsign]ix.netcom.com" <[email hidden]> wrote in
message news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Just Cocky said:

How do you explain that the longest living people on this planet, the
Okinawans, are not vegetarians?

COMMENT:

Because it's just as Huxley suspected in _After Many A Summer Dies the
Swan_. A significant antiaging principle is to be found in fresh fish
and fish guts, and peoples who eat those, live longest (Japanese
including Okinawans, Icelanders, Pacific Islanders).

Vegans miss out in our closest present answer to an antiaging pill.

Sorry, you poor dumb vegan sods. Sorry, Monty-- maybe one of your
coconuts will hit you on the head hard enough to knock some sense into
it. Meanwhile I'm taking my fish oil and lots of it. 🙂. I urge all to
do the same.

TC, for instance, seems to think vegetarians are missing out on oodles
of things in meat and will cause our kids to turn into drooling
imbeciles and/or socially fuc*ed up kids. When cornered to tell us what
is missing he tells one to use google but that's classic him when backed
into a corner for specifics. At least you came up with fish oil and
Omega 3. So let's play what if. What is your evaluation of a vegetarian
diet with B12 and fish oil sans any other animal product?

Nope I'm not a vegetarian so pass the medium rare steak I'm simply
saying that from what I have read in the journals over the years, living
on fruits and vegetables(if organic, even better) can be a very healthy
way to eat assuming balanced protein, b12, and some common sense.

-DF

Doug Freese said:

TC, for instance, seems to think vegetarians are missing out on oodles
of things in meat and will cause our kids to turn into drooling
imbeciles and/or socially fuc*ed up kids. When cornered to tell us what
is missing he tells one to use google but that's classic him when backed
into a corner for specifics. At least you came up with fish oil and
Omega 3. So let's play what if. What is your evaluation of a vegetarian
diet with B12 and fish oil sans any other animal product?

COMMENT:
What you describe may well be the healthest diet of all. If it wasn't
for my cheese addiction and the rare yen to barbecue a really fine
steak, I'd be doing it.

I do start most mornings with a shake of soy protein and frozen fruit
of many kinds, used to down fishoil caps, borage oil caps, and various
vitamins and minerals. So I'm at least a third there.

SBH

George Cherry said:

"Just Cocky" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

How do you explain that the longest living people on this planet, the
Okinawans, are not vegetarians?

I don't. I do eat whole baby clams, organic yogurt,
and take Menhaden fish oil capsules. The rest of
my diet is vegan. Like the Buddha, I practice a
"middle way".

Georgie

COMMENT:

Good for you. I can truly say I don't do as well, but should.

SBH

COMMENT:
See the term "sex and age-matched" in the abstract below?

Controlling for sex and age and other imporant variables (smoking, etc)
in a study of life span or disease incidence, and diet, is elementary
epidemiology. I think you'll have a hard time finding a paper which
doesn't do it.

SBH

RBR said:

One problem I have with studies comparing vegetarians/vegans with
meat-eaters is that most vegetarians tend to be women. See a problem
yet?

RBR

George Cherry said:

1: Nutrition. 2004 Oct;20(10):863-6. Related Articles, Links

Effects of a long-term vegetarian diet on biomarkers of antioxidant status
and cardiovascular disease risk.

Szeto YT, Kwok TC, Benzie IF.

Antioxidant Research Team, School of Nursing, The Hong Kong Polytechnic
University, Kowloon, Hong Kong SAR, China.

OBJECTIVE: We compared plasma biomarkers of antioxidant status, oxidative
stress, inflammation, and risk for coronary heart disease in long-term
vegetarians and age- and sex-matched omnivores. METHODS: Thirty vegetarians
(mean age +/- standard deviation: 44.2 +/- 9.0 y) were recruited. The
subjects had been vegetarian for 5 to 55 y (21.8 +/- 12.2 y). The control
group comprised 30 adults selected by age-stratified sampling from a
community health project (mean age: 44.0 +/- 9.2 y). Fasting plasma total
antioxidant status (ferric-reducing antioxidant power), ascorbic acid (AA),
alpha-tocopherol (total and lipid standardized), malondialdehyde, total
cholesterol, triacylglycerol, uric acid (UA), and high-sensitivity
C-reactive protein (hsCRP) were measured. RESULTS: Plasma AA was
significantly higher in the vegetarians than in the omnivores (90.5 +/- 21.0
and 61.8 +/- 17.0 microM; P < 0.001). The vegetarians had lower
concentrations of triacylglycerol, UA, and hsCRP. Plasma total and
lipid-standardized alpha-tocopherol concentrations were also lower in the
vegetarians: 22.0 +/- 5.9 and 27.0 +/- 7.9 microM versus 3.76 +/- 0.57 and
4.23 +/- 0.58 microM per millimoles per liter of total cholesterol plus
triacylglycerol, respectively. There was a significant inverse correlation
between AA and UA (r = -0.343, P < 0.01; n = 60) and between AA and hsCRP (r
= -0.306, P < 0.05; n = 55). Plasma ferric-reducing antioxidant power and
malondialdehyde did not differ significantly between groups; however, the
contribution of AA to the total antioxidant capacity of plasma was
approximately 50% greater in the vegetarians. CONCLUSIONS: A long-term
vegetarian diet is associated with markedly higher fasting plasma AA
concentrations and lower concentrations of TAG, UA, and hsCRP. Long-term
vegetarians have a better antioxidant status and coronary heart disease risk
profile than do apparently healthy omnivores. Plasma AA may act a useful
marker of overall health status.

PMID: 15474873 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

Just Cocky said:

How do you explain that the longest living people on this planet, the
Okinawans, are not vegetarians?

A centenarian study carried out in the New England states (I'll try to
dig it up) stated that of the 1200+ centenarians studied, only four
were vegetarians.

In India, the predominantly vegetarian South Indians seem to die off
quicker than their meat-eating neighbours to the North. Vegetarianism
does not equal longevity.

RBR

"RBR" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Just Cocky said:

How do you explain that the longest living people on this planet, the
Okinawans, are not vegetarians?

A centenarian study carried out in the New England states (I'll try to
dig it up) stated that of the 1200+ centenarians studied, only four
were vegetarians.

In India, the predominantly vegetarian South Indians seem to die off
quicker than their meat-eating neighbours to the North. Vegetarianism
does not equal longevity.

How about this?

1: Am J Clin Nutr. 2003 Sep;78(3 Suppl):526S-532S. Related Articles,
Links

Does low meat consumption increase life expectancy in humans?

Singh PN, Sabate J, Fraser GE.

Department of Epidemiology & Biostatistics, School of Public Health, Loma
Linda University, Loma Linda, CA 92350, USA. [email hidden]

BACKGROUND: Since meat products represent a major source of protein in the
Western diet, findings on whether meat intake significantly contributes to
the burden of fatal disease have important clinical and public health
implications. OBJECTIVE: The objective was to examine whether a very low
meat intake (less than weekly) contributes to greater longevity. DESIGN: We
reviewed data from 6 prospective cohort studies and report new findings on
the life expectancy of long-term vegetarians from the Adventist Health
Study. RESULTS: Our review of the 6 studies found the following trends: 1) a
very low meat intake was associated with a significant decrease in risk of
death in 4 studies, a nonsignificant decrease in risk of death in the fifth
study, and virtually no association in the sixth study; 2) 2 of the studies
in which a low meat intake significantly decreased mortality risk also
indicated that a longer duration (>/= 2 decades) of adherence to this diet
contributed to a significant decrease in mortality risk and a significant
3.6-y (95% CI: 1.4, 5.8 y) increase in life expectancy; and 3) the
protective effect of a very low meat intake seems to attenuate after the
ninth decade. Some of the variation in the survival advantage in vegetarians
may have been due to marked differences between studies in adjustment for
confounders, the definition of vegetarian, measurement error, age
distribution, the healthy volunteer effect, and intake of specific plant
foods by the vegetarians. CONCLUSION: Current prospective cohort data from
adults in North America and Europe raise the possibility that a lifestyle
pattern that includes a very low meat intake is associated with greater
longevity.

Publication Types:
a.. Review
b.. Review, Tutorial

PMID: 12936945 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

RBR said:

In India, the predominantly vegetarian South Indians seem to die off
quicker than their meat-eating neighbours to the North. Vegetarianism
does not equal longevity.

RBR

COMMENT

But the Indian vegetarians eat a particuraly limited and crappy sort of
diet, which is based around butter and milk and grain, and is lower in
fruits and vegetables than vegetarian diets in richer countries.

If you look at the Seventh-Day Adventists in the US you will find
modest increases in life expectancy, and substantial decreases in
disease incidences (SDAs are not all pure vegans, but they eat
substantially less meat than the rest of the country--- the local
health food store in Loma Linda has one of the better vegetarian and
meat-replacement sections I've ever seen).

How, you ask, does the one thing (modest lifespan increase) square with
the other (substantial disease decrease)? Well, for the same reason we
see it in the statin trials. Much of it stems from the normal
non-linear increase in mortality risk with age, no matter what you eat.
The Reaper's aim gets better EXPONENTIALLY as years go by, so decreases
in age-adjusted disease incidence get rapidly eaten up by normal aging.

Quoted message said:

From age 40 to 80, your chance of dying roughly doubles every 6 to 7

years, which means that if your incidence of all disease is cut in half
for any given age, you still gain only 6 to 7 years in lifespan.

The SDAs typically have cuts of 30% in things like heart disease and
cancer, and this translates into increases in lifespan of only a few
years. Nothing to sneer at, but not immortality or freedom from disease
either. There's lots of evidence that American amounts of American
meats are bad for you. But let's not go overboard. The extra loses us a
few years of life, probably, and not much more.

SBH

Sbharrisatsignix.netcom.com said:

COMMENT

But the Indian vegetarians eat a particuraly limited and crappy sort of
diet, which is based around butter and milk and grain, and is lower in
fruits and vegetables than vegetarian diets in richer countries.

True. Perhaps not the best comparison.

Quoted message said:

If you look at the Seventh-Day Adventists in the US you will find
modest increases in life expectancy, and substantial decreases in
disease incidences (SDAs are not all pure vegans, but they eat
substantially less meat than the rest of the country--- the local
health food store in Loma Linda has one of the better vegetarian and
meat-replacement sections I've ever seen).

The meat eating Mormons enjoy pretty good health like the SDA. What do
they have in common besides a belief in god? Both groups have similar,
if not identical, views on drinking and smoking.

Quoted message said:

The SDAs typically have cuts of 30% in things like heart disease and
cancer, and this translates into increases in lifespan of only a few
years. Nothing to sneer at, but not immortality or freedom from disease
either. There's lots of evidence that American amounts of American
meats are bad for you. But let's not go overboard. The extra loses us a
few years of life, probably, and not much more.

SBH

I know. The gains are rather meager. I can't see myself eating like a
rabbit to gain an extra few years.

RBR

Sbharrisatsignix.netcom.com said:

COMMENT:
See the term "sex and age-matched" in the abstract below?

Controlling for sex and age and other imporant variables (smoking, etc)
in a study of life span or disease incidence, and diet, is elementary
epidemiology. I think you'll have a hard time finding a paper which
doesn't do it.

SBH

Apparently there was a study that selected vegetarians, mostly women
and older, meat-eating males. I'm not sure if this was the Oxford
Study. I'll look for the site where I first sighted the cite.

RBR