Vegetable garden

"Dee Randall" <[email hidden]> wrote in
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Quoted message said:

"Sheldon" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
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<snip>For deer there's no getting
around it, you'll need a fence. <snip>

6' high - minimum
Speaking from experience.
Dee

or 2 fences, 4' high & 1.5-2' apart. you can run chickens in
the area between the fences to help with bug control. deer
don't like having to jump wide (& they can jump a 6' fence if
they want to)
lee

"enigma" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
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Quoted message said:

"Dee Randall" <[email hidden]> wrote in
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Quoted message said:

"Sheldon" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
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<snip>For deer there's no getting
around it, you'll need a fence. <snip>

6' high - minimum
Speaking from experience.
Dee

or 2 fences, 4' high & 1.5-2' apart. you can run chickens in
the area between the fences to help with bug control. deer
don't like having to jump wide (& they can jump a 6' fence if
they want to)
lee

I stand corrected:
Our fence was 6', but the poles were 8' high and spaced about 6' apart, and
we attached plastic banner ribbon on the top of the poles. At any rate, they
never got in over 10 years. There were 5-7 deer in the yard almost
everyday munching, but not in the garden.
Dee

enigma said:

(Terry Davis) said:

I just purchased a home in the country and I am thinking
of starting a
small garden to grow my own veggies. I have a wife and a
daughter so the garden will feed 3 people. Is this idea
economically feasible or would I be better off just buying
my veggies at the market?

do you want fresh veggies in season or do you want to
can/freeze/preserve all your veggies?
if you're a novice gardener, you might want to start small &
just grow for in-season use. you can always make a garden
bigger, but weeding & keeping up a big garden may be just too
overwhelming as far as time & effort if you're just starting.
my main veggie garden is 60 feet by 150 feet. i'm a slave to
weeding (not this year! i put cardboard & mulch over the
entire thing.

60' X 150' isn't a garden, that's a small farm. <g>

Cardboard won't permit water and air to pass, your plants will not do
well, and you'll also have a significant insect and mold problem. And
cardboard contains an array of chemicals that will leach out into your
soil and wreak havoc. Plus with an area that size you're talking 9,000
square feet of cardboard and mulch.... that's every carton from every
liquor store in your county, plus at only 4" deep (which is minimal
mulch) you're talking some 350 cubic yards of mulch... that's 35 big
dump truck loads (a caravan)... and anyone who's ever spread mulch
would know how spreading that much mulch over cardboard would take a 2
man crew working 8 hour days a full week... something doesn't compute
with this story... not quite as much an enigma as a 1 1/2 acre family
garden, but.

Elaine Parrish said:

(clipped comments)
How much do you plant? One stalk of corn will give you 3 4 ears. 1
cucumber vine will give you a ton of cukes. Well, not a ton, maybe, but it
sure seems like it!

You will never need that many eggplant or zuchinni plants. Trust me.
Edrena

The Joneses said:

Elaine Parrish said:

(clipped comments)
How much do you plant? One stalk of corn will give you 3 4 ears. 1
cucumber vine will give you a ton of cukes. Well, not a ton, maybe, but it
sure seems like it!

You will never need that many eggplant or zuchinni plants. Trust me.
Edrena

Hi Edrena,

Tee hee hee. Sounds like the voice of experience speaking.

Many years ago, my folks moved from a house with a small lot to one on two
acres. My mom has 2 green thumbs and loves to garden. She decided to put
in a veggie garden, which she hadn't done since the days of the
grandparents. She roped me in to helping. We planted 7 hills of cucumbers.
Well, at the time, 7 cucumber vines didn't seem like very much. Oh, lawd!
we had a billion cukes! That waste not, want not thing
kicked in. geez! What a nightmare!!! We jumped in and learned how to
make pickles. I saw pickles in my dreams!

Crook-neck (yellow summer) squash is the same way. Been there, done that!
Learned the hard way.

Elaine, too

Terry Davis said:

I just purchased a home in the country and I am thinking of starting a
small garden to grow my own veggies. I have a wife and a daughter so
the garden will feed 3 people. Is this idea economically feasible or
would I be better off just buying my veggies at the market?

Confessions of a kitchen gardener -

Our garden is a 12 ft radius circle - about 450 square feet - plus four
fruit trees not yet grown enough to produce, from which I had hoped to feed
two people. I took advantage of the new freezer to see just how much I could
grow in it last summer. In our area, last frost is April 1 and first around
November 1.

On a first try (which means some mistakes and some acrobatic rabbits that
flew over the fence) we brought in 200 lbs total of peas, beans, winter and
summer squash, lettuce, broccoli, corn, cabbage, beets, carrots, potatoes,
melons, cukes, chard, peppers, tomatoes, and a couple of herbs. I checked
the grocery price of each of those items as they came into season and came
up with $210 total value (subtracting seed and seedling costs). Of course,
that's comparing regular sprayed grocery produce with our fresh organic,
which isn't exactly fair.

If we're to follow the "5 a day" guideline, we two must eat an alarming 900
lbs of fruits and vegetables a year, so I still need to work on increasing
the volume. The fruit trees, when they're grown, will help, but there will
always be items like bananas that we won't give up just because we can't
grow our own.

The variety needs work. No one can eat THAT many carrots, we don't eat that
many beets, and the broccoli ran out before Christmas. Now in April we're
down to peas and carrots and grocery veggies. We won't get anything from
this year's garden - not even lettuce - before June. YMMV.

We also need work on storage. Potatoes, cabbages, and carrots store well
here in the garage in old ice chests from October picking until about the
end of March, but if I'm not on the ball then, what's left goes from fine to
slime in a few days. Most other vegetables went into the freezer. Melons,
zucchini, and tomatoes we feasted on while they were fresh, leaving
everything else in season at that time headed to the freezer.

If you're serious about feeding a family from the garden, get a kitchen
scale to weigh in the produce. Keep a journal to write down varieties,
row-feet planted, things that did and didn't work, harvest start and end
dates, harvest weight, store prices (if you care), and kitchen notes (how
long the supply of beans or corn lasted before running out, and how by
spring you can't stand another beet.) Of course, you don't have to go to
all that trouble, but it's nice to know what you need to plant more or less
of, plant later or earlier, plant a different kind, and to know when to
expect to eat what, when to be ready for squash borers or white flies, and
so on.

Kathy

Kathy said:

Terry Davis said:

I just purchased a home in the country and I am thinking of starting a
small garden to grow my own veggies. I have a wife and a daughter so
the garden will feed 3 people. Is this idea economically feasible or
would I be better off just buying my veggies at the market?

Confessions of a kitchen gardener ... Keep a journal to write down varieties,
row-feet planted, things that did and didn't work, harvest start and end
dates, harvest weight, store prices (if you care), and kitchen notes (how
long the supply of beans or corn lasted before running out, and how by
spring you can't stand another beet.) ... Kathy

I keep a notebook too. Makes a nice diary. Kinda funny to see my yucky face next
to pickles I didn't like.
Edrena

How right you are.One year we planted 25 zuchinni plants and ended
up harvesting far more than we could eat ( one can eat just so much
zuchinni) and even give away,they bear very well.

Terry Davis said:

I just purchased a home in the country and I am thinking of starting a
small garden to grow my own veggies. I have a wife and a daughter so
the garden will feed 3 people. Is this idea economically feasible or
would I be better off just buying my veggies at the market?

How many in this group grow your own veggies for cooking?

Terry

<delurk>
Major home gardener here for both cooking and canning.

"Dog3" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
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Quoted message said:

sarah bennett <[email hidden]> wrote in
news:[email hidden]:

Quoted message said:

Terry Davis said:

I just purchased a home in the country and I am thinking of starting a
small garden to grow my own veggies. I have a wife and a daughter so
the garden will feed 3 people. Is this idea economically feasible or
would I be better off just buying my veggies at the market?

How many in this group grow your own veggies for cooking?

Terry

you won't save any money, but home grown veggies are generally worth the
effort. (particularly with tomatoes and other fruit bearing vines)

I'll agree with the tomatoes. My neighbor lets me pick and eat his
tomatoes when ripe. They are better than anything I've gotten at the
supermarket and better than most farmer's markets.

Michael

And of course you will save money. A dollar packet of bean seeds or lettuce
or beets or summer squash will grow many dollars worth of food. Small
tomato plants, the best size for transplanting, are sold by the garden
centers around here in paks of 4-6 plants for a dollar or two. Onion sets
or plants are cheap. Don't forget some herbs, like parsley, chives, sage,
basil, thyme.

All you need for equipment is a hoe, a spading fork, and a bow rake. A
little 10-10-10 fertilizer and you are ready. Substitute manure if you are
feeling organic.

"Sheldon" <[email hidden]> wrote in
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Quoted message said:

60' X 150' isn't a garden, that's a small farm. <g>

well, yeah. i have 62 acres. 20 is wetlands & 30 is sugarbush
& managed woodlot. the rest is divided into pasture for the
fiber beasts, a small bit for the egg beasts ,who normally run
free & eat bugs. i got them to keep ticks away from the lawn
area & they work really well, but i currently have a fox
problem so they're penned unless someone is outside
supervising. there's an acre of blueberry bushes (which still
has to be mowed) the oversize veggie garden, plus the other
gardens (herb, cutting, & kitchen). the advantage to the
really huge garden is room for succession planting of corn &
lots of room for pumpkins & watermelons... oh, & my 70 some
odd tomato plants. i always get carried away with tomatoes 🙂

Quoted message said:

Cardboard won't permit water and air to pass, your plants
will not do well, and you'll also have a significant insect
and mold problem.

the cardboard is just for walkways, & it's only until i can
get some good landscape cloth. i do have uninked cardboard,
but i know the adhesives can be a problem.
and i may not have to use the cardboard anyway since my Agway
gave me all the jute gunnysacks they got in with thier garden
ornaments this spring. i have a 5' high pile of sacks now.

Quoted message said:

plus at only 4"
deep (which is minimal mulch) you're talking some 350 cubic
yards of mulch... that's 35 big dump truck loads (a
caravan)... and anyone who's ever spread mulch would know
how spreading that much mulch over cardboard would take a 2
man crew working 8 hour days a full week... something
doesn't compute with this story... not quite as much an
enigma as a 1 1/2 acre family garden, but.

my mulch is shredded leaves (i have literally tons. with all
that woodlot, there's no shortage of leaves!), grass
clippings, straw, hay, livestock manure, chipped/shredded
branches, garden waste, etc.
you're right, i do need more than i think... but what i
have/can make should cover most of my garden this year... i
hope. 🙂
i really need the landscape cloth for the "pretty" gardens
though... but no income until July, so i have to make do.
lee

Dee Randall said:

"Sheldon" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

cathyxyz said:

Shaun aRe wrote:

>....... and if you're like me, you'll cry when a whole bunch
>of your seedlings suddenly up and die for some reason and there's no
>time to
>plant more for the season, heheheheheh!

Or the birds get to the seedlings, as was the case with us. We have
enclosed our veggie garden with very fine shade-cloth over a framework
- keeps birds out and lets the sun in. 😉

That's too much like work and wasted dollars... put up a few decoy owls
and whirligigs... they look really k-ewl and they keep the mauraders
well at bay. Cabelas.com has the best deal on owls and there are many
websites selling very nicely made whiligigs at good prices, or there
may be local craftsmen selling them close to where you live. Birds are
deathly afraid of owls and the sudden noise and motion of whiligigs
keeps birds and small animals far away. For deer there's no getting
around it, you'll need a fence. Unless I had a very small garden or
wanted to protect a few individual plants but covering an entire garden
with netting is something I wouldn't consider.

Sheldon

<snip>For deer there's no getting
around it, you'll need a fence. <snip>

6' high - minimum
Speaking from experience.
Dee

If fencing is not an option, a motion activated sprayer might work. I
know it works well for racoons, squirrels, and the 2-legged animals.

I think its wonderful that a dad wants to spend quality time with his
daughter. Having a garden is a great idea.

Becky

Quoted message said:

grandparents. She roped me in to helping. We planted 7 hills of cucumbers.
Well, at the time, 7 cucumber vines didn't seem like very much. Oh, lawd!
we had a billion cukes! That waste not, want not thing
kicked in. geez! What a nightmare!!! We jumped in and learned how to
make pickles. I saw pickles in my dreams!

OH, oh, I'm in serious trouble. We just planted six. I was hoping for
"enough" cukes to make a couple of jars of bread and butter pickles.
hmmmmmmmmm

vjma

The Joneses said:

Elaine Parrish said:

(clipped comments)
How much do you plant? One stalk of corn will give you 3 4 ears. 1
cucumber vine will give you a ton of cukes. Well, not a ton, maybe, but it
sure seems like it!

You will never need that many eggplant or zuchinni plants. Trust me.
Edrena

An experienced gardner would "never" say that... eggplants and zukes
are best picked before reaching penis envy size. Harvest every day...
pick zukes and eggplants when no more than 4-5 inches long, they'll be
more managable, more tender, tastier, and you'll have steadier
production... no point in a truckload of foot longs all at once and
then nothing for weeks. And corn is not self pollinating so one stalk
will produce nothing, in fact even a couple rows won't produce many
ears, for corn to produce there needs to be a rather large thicket, at
least six rows deep. And for the home gardener it's not a big deal to
walk the rows and snip off all but two ears per stalk, then the
remaining ears will be much larger and sweeter. Remember, home
gardening is much more about quality than quantity.

Sheldon

On 29 May 2005 said:

Quoted message said:

grandparents. She roped me in to helping. We planted 7 hills of cucumbers.
Well, at the time, 7 cucumber vines didn't seem like very much. Oh, lawd!
we had a billion cukes! That waste not, want not thing
kicked in. geez! What a nightmare!!! We jumped in and learned how to
make pickles. I saw pickles in my dreams!

OH, oh, I'm in serious trouble. We just planted six. I was hoping for
"enough" cukes to make a couple of jars of bread and butter pickles.
hmmmmmmmmm

vjma

Oh, lawd!!!! That's what we thought, too!

Run out and buy 40-11 dozen canning jars and bookoozie pounds
of sugar! Call all your friends. Put an add for cukes on cable TV.
Get an account on EBay. Hire a trucking company. Sell your house and move
away. <VBG>

Cukes are one of those things that keep bearing all
season. And,the more you harvest, the more they make. You have to pull
them small or they are not at their best. The bigger the cuke, the less
flavor, less sweet and the less goodness of flesh. Big ones are "pithy"
(that may only be a real word in the South <g>😉.

We had a bumper crop that year. The vines were 6 to 8 feet long and the
cukes just grew and grew. It was a nightmare (because there just isn't
much to do with cukes). We ate them twice a day. They are really, really
good fried. We made all kinds of cuke salads (not that many choices). Then
we made pickles - tons of pickles. The bread and butter were our favs,
too.

Elaine, too

T said:

How right you are.One year we planted 25 zuchinni plants and ended
up harvesting far more than we could eat ( one can eat just so much
zuchinni) and even give away,they bear very well.

I know exactly what you mean! Plant more than a few zuchinni or
eggplants, and friends and family become scarce after the first few
weeks of harvest season! ;-)

Bubba

--
You wanna measure, or you wanna cook?

"Elaine Parrish" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

On 29 May 2005 said:

Quoted message said:

grandparents. She roped me in to helping. We planted 7 hills of

cucumbers.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Well, at the time, 7 cucumber vines didn't seem like very much. Oh,

lawd!

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

we had a billion cukes! That waste not, want not thing
kicked in. geez! What a nightmare!!! We jumped in and learned how to
make pickles. I saw pickles in my dreams!

OH, oh, I'm in serious trouble. We just planted six. I was hoping for
"enough" cukes to make a couple of jars of bread and butter pickles.
hmmmmmmmmm

vjma

Oh, lawd!!!! That's what we thought, too!

Run out and buy 40-11 dozen canning jars and bookoozie pounds
of sugar! Call all your friends. Put an add for cukes on cable TV.
Get an account on EBay. Hire a trucking company. Sell your house and move
away. <VBG>

Cukes are one of those things that keep bearing all
season. And,the more you harvest, the more they make. You have to pull
them small or they are not at their best. The bigger the cuke, the less
flavor, less sweet and the less goodness of flesh. Big ones are "pithy"
(that may only be a real word in the South <g>😉.

We had a bumper crop that year. The vines were 6 to 8 feet long and the
cukes just grew and grew. It was a nightmare (because there just isn't
much to do with cukes). We ate them twice a day. They are really, really
good fried. We made all kinds of cuke salads (not that many choices). Then
we made pickles - tons of pickles. The bread and butter were our favs,
too.

Elaine, too

I can't believe it - all this talk of cucumbers, and not one mention of
Tzatziki!

No garlic:

http://www.greek-recipe.com/static/content/Tzatziki_with_no_garlic.html

With garlic:

http://www.greek-recipe.com/static/content/Yoghurt_dip.html

Probably not the best recipes, but there's millions out there. Good stuff.

Shaun aRe

T said:

How right you are. One year we planted 25 zuchinni plants and ended
up harvesting far more than we could eat (one can eat just so much
zuchinni).

*One* doesn't need a very high IQ to figure out that if 25 plants
produce only one zuke each there will be more than *one* can eat. One
would think you're either a total idiot or a total fabricator, this one
believes you're both.

Sheldon

People around here start locking up their cars around the end of June
through Nov 15. That way someone cant fill their cars with squash.

Dwayne

"T" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

How right you are.One year we planted 25 zuchinni plants and ended
up harvesting far more than we could eat ( one can eat just so much
zuchinni) and even give away,they bear very well.