VDH 46.3 split in relay

... and Kitajima 59.1 in the breast split.

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I cannot figure out VDH. Sometimes he doesn't swim anything like as well as I expect (e.g. the
individual 100m free) and then other times like this he totally exceeds my expectations.

<[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

46.3 fastest all time, along with Crocker (50.3) in the fly.

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Colin Priest said:

I cannot figure out VDH. Sometimes he doesn't swim anything like as well as I expect (e.g. the
individual 100m free) and then other times like this he totally exceeds my expectations.

<[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

46.3 fastest all time, along with Crocker (50.3) in the fly.

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I believe it was in fact 46.7, not 46.3. Still exceptional nonetheless. I'm not sure how much weight
we should give to performances in relays. There must be other factors involved that allow a swimmer
to post exceptional times. For example, the French swimmer Bousquet split 47.03 in the 4x100 free
earlier in the meet, but could only manage 49.3 in the individual 100m final. Now how such
discrepancies in performance be explained.

Yeah.. it's looks to be a 46.7... the swimnews.com people had it wrong here as a 46.2
swimnews.comdisplayStory.jhtmlOpen ↗

But 46.7 is still a HUGE split.

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Ernest the Sheep said:

I believe it was in fact 46.7, not 46.3. Still exceptional nonetheless. I'm not sure how much
weight we should give to performances in relays. There must be other factors involved that allow a
swimmer to post exceptional times. For example, the French swimmer Bousquet split 47.03 in the
4x100 free earlier in the meet, but could only manage 49.3 in the individual 100m final. Now how
such discrepancies in performance be explained.

The rules for the start are different in relays in that you do a flying start. In an individual
event you cannot move until the start tone. In a relay you can move before the previous swimmer
touches the wall as long as your feet are still touching the block at the moment the swimmer
touches. This adds up to an advantage of up to a second compared to a static start.

The Australian disqualification in the 400 IM looked like a bad call to me. The video isn't
absolutely clear, but the breaststroker seemed to still be in contact with the block when the
backstroker touched the wall. I suspect the breaststroker thought he might have jumped too early
since he cocked his knees during the jump. The official might have seen that and been influenced by
it ("he thinks he jumped so soon, so he probably did"😉.

But in general, I don't think coaches drill their relay swimmers enough in the relay starts.

[email hidden] (Chris) wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

Ernest the Sheep said:

I believe it was in fact 46.7, not 46.3. Still exceptional nonetheless. I'm not sure how much
weight we should give to performances in relays. There must be other factors involved that allow
a swimmer to post exceptional times. For example, the French swimmer Bousquet split 47.03 in the
4x100 free earlier in the meet, but could only manage 49.3 in the individual 100m final. Now how
such discrepancies in performance be explained.

The rules for the start are different in relays in that you do a flying start. In an individual
event you cannot move until the start tone. In a relay you can move before the previous swimmer
touches the wall as long as your feet are still touching the block at the moment the swimmer
touches. This adds up to an advantage of up to a second compared to a static start.

The Australian disqualification in the 400 IM looked like a bad call to me. The video isn't
absolutely clear, but the breaststroker seemed to still be in contact with the block when the
backstroker touched the wall. I suspect the breaststroker thought he might have jumped too early
since he cocked his knees during the jump. The official might have seen that and been influenced
by it ("he thinks he jumped so soon, so he probably did"😉.

But in general, I don't think coaches drill their relay swimmers enough in the relay starts.

Do you mean to tell me that there's not a spring-loaded switch in the block to tell them when the
swimmer dives off? That feature, coupled with the electronics of knowing exactly when the swimmer in
the pool touches the wall would eliminate any human intervention at all.

Eric

[email hidden] (4precious) wrote in a message

<<Do you mean to tell me that there's not a spring-loaded switch in the block to tell them when the
swimmer dives off?>>

Actually its not a spring loaded switch per se - there are pressure sensitive pads on the blocks
that are connected to the timing system which are, in turn, in touch with the pads on the walls.
When the slightest pressure applied by the incoming swimmer hits the wall touch pad, the timing
system registers this "hit". When ALL the pressure of the swimmer standing on the pad on the block
is gone, that's also noted. If at the exact same instant ALL the weight on that pressure sensitive
pad on the block is gone AND the very beginning of pressure is registered on the touch pad in the
water, the system will call this relay exchange 0.00, that is, there was no lag between the two
pressures; they happened at exactly the same time (within 1/100th of a second) and that would be
termed the perfect exchange. If the swimmer on the block left just slightly AFTER the swimmer coming
in hit the wall pad, the system would call this exchange +0.04 or whatever. If the swimmer on the
block leaves early, the system notes the exchange as -0.11 or whatever.

These RJPs (relay judging platforms)have been utilized at World Cup competition for years and at
NCAAs just recently (this spring marked the second time they were allowed at NCAAs). Various state
high school organizations have used them for almost a decade. One LSC (Local Swim Committee)
currently uses them for age group competition as a test case for the USA rules committee although
they are NOT allowed at any other USA Swimming competition.

When you see that .78 or whatever noted in individual events that tells you the "reaction time" of
that swimmer to the horn at the start. Take a look at how slowly Popov got off the block in the 50 m
free at Worlds for instance. As I recall, he was the 7th person off the blocks . . . and he won the
event. Add up the various exchange times in the relays and ask yourself if maybe you ought to be
practicing relay exchanges in preparation for a big meet.

Various organizations - FINA, NCAA, Nat'l HS Federation - have different protocols for determining
an early relay exchange. Humans are used and in some cases over-rule the electronic judges and in
other cases its vice versa.

More than you wanted to know . . .

Respectfully submitted,

Scott