VDB admits doping...?

"Kurgan Gringioni" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...
. My main source of

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entertainment is reading.

But not for comprehension. Plonk (with Tango music playing).

"Nick Burns" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

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"B. Lafferty" <[email hidden]> wrote in message

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What this and the Museeuw situation illustrate is the truth of what Dickey V. said when he
finally came clean. I think the operative

assumption

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has to be that everyone at the top level is using dope and probably a

whole

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lot of wannabes. It's time for WADA, the UCI and IOC to admit defeat (and in Hein's

case

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malfeasance, IMO) in the drug wars and let the competitors use anything

they

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want. Just make certain the riders sign informed consents and set up at fund for the
widows/widowers and orphans. Think how much fun it will be to see Tammy back in action. I'll bet

she

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could beat Merckx's Hour Record. ;-) Gotta go for my ride and swing by the druggist for some
caffeine suppositories. Later.......

I think the reason the war was lost was that the definition of victory was unrealistic. I think
that the list of banned substances is far too big. I should be able to take any drugs as a cyclist
that I can take as a

patient.

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The problem with that is there is a lot of opportunity for corrupt MDs to supply patient\athletes
on the basis of exaggerated or false diagnosis. Therefore along with the relaxed rules I would
like to see more oversight

by

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neutral MDs. IOW, they can take prescribed drugs but all medical files

have

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to be made available.

The list of banned drugs also has the undesirable effect of creating the impression that many of
these drugs to enhance performance. Most of them don't.

Chris, I don't think the problem is that the list is too long. The real "problem" preparations would
still be on a shortened list. I've simply come to see it as a never ending chase to keep up with the
abusers who, IMO, will always be a step ahead.

So, let them dope. It will be interesting to see competitor morphs in 2103. Brian

Kurgan Gringioni said:

"Clovis Lark" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

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Did you read the article? Here's the url again:

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sport.guardian.co.uk0,10082,609912,00.htmlOpen ↗

Yea, I read the article. However, it didn't provide any of the science upon which it supposedly
was based.

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The "Schwarzenegger mice" study was widely reported.

As I said, the science wasn't provided, so without that there is no coherent way to make the
assumptions you are making. You do know what is meant by "providing the science", eh?

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Why don't we?

Did we ever finish that dicussion of the french foundations of functional tonality? No?

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I figured out what was wrong with the "Joplin introduced rhythm" take. It should have been
"Joplin merged African syncopation with the Western

tonal

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system"

As did Tango composers of the same era...

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Ragtime was the ancestor of jazz and all its offshoots, blues, rock, R&B et al. It was the start
of the 20th century change that saw the rhythm section become the focal point of the music.

*A* focal point of music, not *the* Were that the case, Harry Connick would only need a trap set and
a couple of congas...

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I'm not exactly sure what is the point of contesting that. The difference between the emphasis in
rhythm in 20th century popular music (jazz, blues, rock) and pre-20th century classical is very
apparent.

I'm not sure what your point is, either. But I am glad you read up on it and I hope you get out and
listen as well.

GWB said:

"Clovis Lark" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

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No, YOU are gullable. My family has been involved in molecular gnetics for over 50 years. Wanna
play? YOU said "deer mitochondria" I believe. When was the last time a deer ran full

out

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for 4-5 hours? Other errors all over the place, but, we could go back to music....

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You are the idiot. Genetic engineering is one of the most evil forms of pollution dumped on the
earth yet.

Care to 'splain your irrelevant rant? Where did I EVER say genetic engineering was ever anything
good? In fact, my family stayed as from that frankenstein science as possible.

"Clovis Lark" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

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Kurgan Gringioni said:

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As did Tango composers of the same era...

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Ragtime was the ancestor of jazz and all its offshoots, blues, rock, R&B

et

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al. It was the start of the 20th century change that saw the rhythm

section

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become the focal point of the music.

*A* focal point of music, not *the* Were that the case, Harry Connick would only need a trap set
and a couple of congas...

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I'm not exactly sure what is the point of contesting that. The difference between the emphasis
in rhythm in 20th century popular music (jazz,

blues,

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rock) and pre-20th century classical is very apparent.

I'm not sure what your point is, either. But I am glad you read up on it and I hope you get out
and listen as well.

I didn't read up on it. Some old lessons came up out of bubble memory.

"B. Lafferty" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

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"Kurgan Gringioni" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...
. My main source of

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entertainment is reading.

But not for comprehension. Plonk (with Tango music playing).

Sweet. I wish that would've happened long ago.

Kurgan Gringioni said:

"Clovis Lark" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

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Kurgan Gringioni <[email hidden]> wrote:

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Dumbass -

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As I wrote earlier, that was idle speculation. I don't know what sort of genetic vaccines
athletes will be trying in the future. My position is

that

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there are always athletes looking for an edge outside of the rules and

that

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some of them will be doing it.

So what is your position on the recall?

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One man shouldn't be able to do that (Darrell Issa). I'll vote for Arnold the Molester.

Dumbass -

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I figure that while you are idly speculating on the future, you might as well fill us in... Oh,
and what are Roy's chances for a full recovery from his tiger gouging?

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That was funny as [censored]. Tigers are the biggest land predators on earth - he took his chances and
finally paid for it.

Total agreement. the victim will be the poor tiger, already in quarantine.

Kurgan Gringioni said:

One man shouldn't be able to do that (Darrell Issa).

Craig Kilborn said, "Issa funded the recall campaign with money he made selling car alarms so this
isn't the first time he's done something that annoys millions of people."

"Clovis Lark" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

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That was funny as [censored]. Tigers are the biggest land predators on earth -

he

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took his chances and finally paid for it.

I was mistaken about the tigers being the biggest. Grizzlies and polar bears are bigger.

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Total agreement. the victim will be the poor tiger, already in quarantine.

They better not kill the tiger. That would be very wrong. If the tiger wanted to kill Facelift Roy,
Facelift Roy would be dead.

It's generally accepted that tigers are not completely tameable. In the wild they will eat humans,
by design.

Kurgan Gringioni said:

"Clovis Lark" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

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That was funny as [censored]. Tigers are the biggest land predators on earth -

he

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took his chances and finally paid for it.

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I was mistaken about the tigers being the biggest. Grizzlies and polar bears are bigger.

And Kodiaks? We shan't Mention sperm whales...

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Total agreement. the victim will be the poor tiger, already in quarantine.

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They better not kill the tiger. That would be very wrong. If the tiger wanted to kill Facelift
Roy, Facelift Roy would be dead.

The MO for these animals is to fell the prey with an intended fatal laceration to the jugular. They
then drag the prey to a "neutral" location. Oops, that's EXACTLY what happened. Were Roy Boy NOT on
stage in a metropolitan region with state of the art hospitals within shouting distance, my
uneducated hunch would be that not only would he be a dead man, he be a partially consumed man.

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It's generally accepted that tigers are not completely tameable. In the wild they will eat humans,
by design.

Not unless forced or "trained" by conditions. Read awl about it:

seaworld.orgdiettiger.htmlOpen ↗

Robert Chung said:

Kurgan Gringioni said:

One man shouldn't be able to do that (Darrell Issa).

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Craig Kilborn said, "Issa funded the recall campaign with money he made selling car alarms so this
isn't the first time he's done something that annoys millions of people."

Good, good.

One could also add that this isn't the first time he's caused a lot of useless noise...

Clovis Lark said:

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It's generally accepted that tigers are not completely tameable. In the wild they will eat humans,
by design.

Not unless forced or "trained" by conditions. Read awl about it:

seaworld.orgdiettiger.htmlOpen ↗

Maybe he was frustrated by the remarkable shortage of available sambar, chital, sika deer, swamp
deer, hog deer, antelope, buffalo, guar, peafowl, monkeys, civets, porcupines, fish, frogs, crabs,
large monitor lizards, pythons, young elephants or rhinos.

Either that, or the recent SARS epidemic made him wary of wild game like
civit.

Dan

"Kurgan Gringioni" <[email hidden]> wrote in
:"]news:[email hidden]:

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I wasn't talking about super-athletic flies, persay, just that it will be possible to morph humans
into beings that most of us may consider to be non-human.

<snip>

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Fruit fly36% Mouse90% Roundworm21% Yeast23% Thale cress15% Zebrafish85% E coli7% Chimp98% Rat90%

Everyone assumes such genetic engineering will be used to improve athletic performance, yet I
suspect experiments are already underway that transplant the brain DNA of Fruit Flies, Roundworms,
and Yeast into human subjects. The proof of this exists because it causes a person to post about his
broken Bianchi frame or make other inane arguments in NGs.

NS

Kurgan Gringioni said:

Goddamm, you're stupid.

From: sport.guardian.co.uk0,10082,609912,00.htmlOpen ↗

The gene genie is out of the bottle

It is sport's doomsday scenario: a new wave of performance-enhancing drugs whose use is utterly
undetectable. And, according to the scientists and world

doping experts who met at a special conference in London yesterday, that doomsday is already nigh.

The key, they say, is genetic manipulation. By the Athens Olympics in 2004, dozens if not hundreds
of athletes are expected to have experimented with the rapidly emerging range of gene-altering
drugs. Unfettered by fears of being caught they will, according to the experts, shatter the
accepted limits of human performance.

No.

Maybe by the _next_ Athens Olympics, but not these ones. The technology is not there yet. What you
quoted was an ill-informed piece of fluff.

Kurgan Gringioni said:

They can change genes in your body, system-wide, on the go, with those techniques. The genes of a
chimpanzee differ from a human by 2%.

On the go, huh? Care to explain how they accomplish that?

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BTW, genetic vaccines have been the subject of talk among the pro racers. Of course, they're
generally not happy about the prospect, although it doesn't seem like anyone is suspected of
it (yet).

Of course not, it's not possible yet. And won't be possible in the manner you're outlining in
this lifetime.

I know you're trolling.

Nick Burns said:

As if we now know how to write DNA? Right, just do a little cut and paste. I don't think so!

The DNA part is as simple as a little cut and paste...if you know where to cut. It's the other
technical aspects of the procedure that are out of our grasp, and will be for quite a while.

"Clovis Lark" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

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> That was funny as [censored]. Tigers are the biggest land predators on

earth -

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he

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> took his chances and finally paid for it.

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I was mistaken about the tigers being the biggest. Grizzlies and polar

bears

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are bigger.

And Kodiaks? We shan't Mention sperm whales...

I said "land predators". There are many in the ocean which are bigger.

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Total agreement. the victim will be the poor tiger, already in quarantine.

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They better not kill the tiger. That would be very wrong. If the tiger

wanted

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to kill Facelift Roy, Facelift Roy would be dead.

The MO for these animals is to fell the prey with an intended fatal laceration to the jugular.
They then drag the prey to a "neutral" location. Oops, that's EXACTLY what happened. Were Roy Boy
NOT on stage in a metropolitan region with state of the art hospitals within shouting distance, my
uneducated hunch would be that not only would he be a dead man, he be a partially consumed man.

Quoted message said:

It's generally accepted that tigers are not completely tameable. In the

wild

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they will eat humans, by design.

Not unless forced or "trained" by conditions. Read awl about it:

seaworld.orgdiettiger.htmlOpen ↗

Interesting. So he wanted to eat Facelift Roy?

"Nev Shea" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

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"Kurgan Gringioni" <[email hidden]> wrote in
:"]news:[email hidden]:

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I wasn't talking about super-athletic flies, persay, just that it will be possible to morph
humans into beings that most of us may consider to be non-human.

<snip>

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Fruit fly36% Mouse90% Roundworm21% Yeast23% Thale cress15% Zebrafish85% E coli7% Chimp98% Rat90%

Everyone assumes such genetic engineering will be used to improve athletic performance, yet I
suspect experiments are already underway that transplant the brain DNA of Fruit Flies, Roundworms,
and Yeast into human subjects. The proof of this exists because it causes a person to post about
his broken Bianchi frame or make other inane arguments in NGs.

Dumbass -

you are making funny posts in your old age.

Kurgan Gringioni said:

Imagine the freaks we're gonna get when genetic vaccination techniques become widely available.

Someone can go in and say, "I want the mitochondria of a deer" and they can change a few genes
around and voila! the athlete's mitochondria will suddenly be 4 times more effective.

The freakish part is that we don't have a full understanding of how all the genes interact with
each other. So the athlete may get that mitochondria, but he may get some other things he didn't
bargain for.

Ever see the movie "The Fly"? Such a thing will be possible.

Don't worry. I hear Bell is coming out with a helmet that will fit over deer antlers.

Mark Janeba

Mark Janeba said:

Don't worry. I hear Bell is coming out with a helmet that will fit over deer antlers.

Deer antler velvet is a good "recovery product" *nudge* *wink*