Various Q's

"VisionSet" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

2 year old road bike with Tiagra gears and sora
brakes & hubs.

Tiagra levers - the change down (ie tensioning the cable)
action is too great. I have BIG hands and the throw is
just to far even for 1 sprocket

at

Quoted message said:

a time. Which levers do a better job of this - for
next time?

The guides at the bottom of the bottom bracket is I think
a shimano part. Is there anything available that is
covered, since it gets the most grot?

What is a decent deal on decent comfy bar tape?

Whats the best solution to rattling & rubbing
gear/brake cables?

My 58cm Ali road bike weighs c.10.9kg (24lbs) and cost me
£250 second

hand.

Quoted message said:

What sort of deals can be had for bikes weighing
22,20,18lbs.

How does a manufacturer/builder go about achieving those
weights? I imagine it something like - expensive frame
(probably with carbon),

light

Quoted message said:

BB, light HS, light stem, hollow crank, light wheels.

What I'm getting at is how can I get a decent light bike
for not too much, definitely second hand. Obviously
titanium valve caps isn't going to cut
it.

An answer like "Component choice can contribute the
following %ages of the weight saving: frame 50%, wheels
30%, BB,HS&Stem 20%" or some such, would

be

Quoted message said:

nice.

Is there any resource (online?) that lists weights of
components, historically or currently obtainable? I saw
one once but I've lost the

link.

Quoted message said:

-- weightweenies.starbike.comlistings.phpOpen ↗

Graham

Quoted message said:

Mike W

VisionSet said:

Tiagra levers - the change down (ie tensioning the cable)
action is too great. I have BIG hands and the throw is
just to far even for 1 sprocket at a time.

Tiagra levers perform pretty well. I don't have large hands,
and have no problems changing down. Are you sure there isn't
a problem with them?

Quoted message said:

The guides at the bottom of the bottom bracket is I think
a shimano part. Is there anything available that is
covered, since it gets the most grot?

Keep it clean -- use a toothbrush. If it were covered, it
would still get grotty, but would be more difficult to
clean.

Quoted message said:

What is a decent deal on decent comfy bar tape?

Cork tape. Deda works for me. Silva is also pretty good.

Quoted message said:

Whats the best solution to rattling & rubbing
gear/brake cables?

Tighten them, use doughnuts (rubber grommets).

Quoted message said:

My 58cm Ali road bike weighs c.10.9kg (24lbs) and cost me
£250 second hand. What sort of deals can be had for bikes
weighing 22,20,18lbs.

Can't help there.

Quoted message said:

How does a manufacturer/builder go about achieving those
weights? I imagine it something like - expensive frame
(probably with carbon), light BB, light HS, light stem,
hollow crank, light wheels.

I would say the frame is the most importtant factor.

Quoted message said:

What I'm getting at is how can I get a decent light bike
for not too much, definitely second hand. Obviously
titanium valve caps isn't going to cut it.

Good, light frames can be had pretty cheap. See Fort (
www.fortframes.com ) or Tifosi ( www.tifosi-cycles.co.uk ).

Quoted message said:

An answer like "Component choice can contribute the
following %ages of the weight saving: frame 50%, wheels
30%, BB,HS&Stem 20%" or some such, would be nice.

Is there any resource (online?) that lists weights of
components, historically or currently obtainable? I saw
one once but I've lost the link.

See Graham's post above. But don't get hung up on the
weight thing!

in message <[email hidden]>, VisionSet

(') said:

Is there any resource (online?) that lists weights of
components, historically or currently obtainable? I saw
one once but I've lost the link.

<URL:http://weightweenies.starbike.com/>

--
[email hidden] (Simon Brooke)
jasmine.org.uk~simonOpen ↗ .::;===r==\ /
/___||___\____ //==\- ||- | /__\( MS Windows IS an operating
environment. //____\__||___|_// \|: C++ IS an object
oriented programming language. \__/ ~~~~~~~~~ \__/ Citroen
2cv6 IS a four door family saloon.

VisionSet said:

2 year old road bike with Tiagra gears and sora
brakes & hubs.

Tiagra levers - the change down (ie tensioning the cable)
action is too great. I have BIG hands and the throw is
just to far even for 1 sprocket at a time. Which levers do
a better job of this - for next time?

I have tiagra levers etc. They work two different ways when
changing down. You can push the lever riiiight over, hold,
and it'll drop down three at a time (or maybe two, depending
on how it's feeling). Push it over only just far enough (not
all the way) and release when you feel it start to drop and
it'll change down only one gear.

It's designed that way, btw :-)

If on the other hand you're saying you can't (even with big
hands) move the lever over far enough to drop a gear, then
I'm gobsmacked, and would tell you to look at whether your
bars are too far away and you're reaching too far, bars are
too wide, or if the hoods/levers are positioned oddly on the
bars themselves, etc etc.

I have teeny weeny hands and manage fine, though I do find
it's sometimes fingertips rather than further up the
fingers, depending on the rest of my position at the time,
but at no time am I unable to actually push the lever fully
over to drop 3 at a time (or 1 if I choose).

Velvet

Graham,

You replied, quoting the whole of VisionSet's post, and
added nothing at the end except your .sig, which started at
a quote separator so the only apparent "new" text was your
name. Was that your intention? I'm guessing not.

--
Guy
--
May contain traces of irony. Contents liable to settle after posting.
chapmancentral.co.ukchapmancentral.co.ukOpen ↗

Victory is ours! Down with Eric the Half A Brain!

Simon Brooke said:

C++ IS an object oriented programming language.

When originally subjected to OO witch-hunting for the design
of C++, Bjarne Stroustrup was asked why he'd used such
ghastly impure and baroque setups. Answer was along the
lines of, "Because when you pick up the 'phone you need a
dial tone straight away". It was never meant to be an OO
language in the pure sense, it was meant to be a way to make
re-writing the Bell 'phone system easier than using C while
retaining sufficient performance on the computers of the
day. Windows NT and on, however, apparently /were/ meant to
be proper operating systems. One of these days they might
even have a filesystem that doesn't fragment to hell in a
few days of minor use as a desktop client...

Pete.
--
Peter Clinch University of Dundee Tel 44 1382 660111 ext.
33637 Medical Physics, Ninewells Hospital Fax 44 1382 640177
Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK net [email hidden]
dundee.ac.uk~pjclinchOpen ↗

"Velvet" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

VisionSet said:

2 year old road bike with Tiagra gears and sora brakes
& hubs.

Tiagra levers - the change down (ie tensioning the
cable) action is too great. I have BIG hands and the
throw is just to far even for 1

sprocket at

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

a time. Which levers do a better job of this - for
next time?

I have tiagra levers etc. They work two different ways
when changing down. You can push the lever riiiight over,
hold, and it'll drop down three at a time (or maybe two,
depending on how it's feeling). Push it over only just far
enough (not all the way) and release when you feel it
start to drop and it'll change down only one gear.

It's designed that way, btw :-)

If on the other hand you're saying you can't (even with
big hands) move the lever over far enough to drop a gear,
then I'm gobsmacked,

Don't be gobsmacked, I can easily shift 1, 2 or 3 at a time,
I just think the design that requries that much movement for
1 shift is poor. Compare it with down tube shifters! And
they call it an advance?! I have an engineers mind, and with
that comes fussy.

--
Mike W

you know? said:

Graham,

You replied, quoting the whole of VisionSet's post, and
added nothing at the end except your .sig, which started
at a quote separator so the only apparent "new" text was
your name. Was that your intention? I'm guessing not.

The sig sep was part of the original post. Graham's
newsclient didn't snip
it. He then stuck a url on a quoted line. I see quite a few
posts where people start their response on a quoted
line. I often wonder if people actually look at what
they post either before or after sending.

Colin

"Peter Clinch" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Simon Brooke said:

C++ IS an object oriented programming language.

Barely true at best, but it may be an acceptable statement
if you are being generous, and there are no language
designers or object experts in the room.

Quoted message said:

When originally subjected to OO witch-hunting for the
design of C++, Bjarne Stroustrup was asked why he'd used
such ghastly impure and baroque setups. Answer was along
the lines of, "Because when you pick up the 'phone you
need a dial tone straight away". It was never meant to be
an OO language in the pure sense, it was meant to be a way
to make re-writing the Bell 'phone system easier than
using C while retaining sufficient performance on the
computers of the day.

And therefore he needed a language that could be built into
a precompiler that would generate pure C as the output. Back-
mapping from C shows quite simply why many choices were made
the way they were in C++.

The great PR success was to get "Object-Oriented" and "C++"
identified in the mind of the Programming Public.

Quoted message said:

Windows NT and on, however, apparently /were/ meant to be
proper operating systems. One of these days they might
even have a filesystem that doesn't fragment to hell in a
few days of minor use as a desktop client...

Precise wording: they were meant to be SOLD AS proper
operating systems. The extra 2 words change the design
objectives considerably.

And don't expect sophisticated (ie, effective) resource
management from any monolithic system. The only systems that
manage resources effectively are either component-based
(Linux) or carefully layered (UnixTM).

We're pretty OT now, so it should move to comp.lang.c++.myths-and-
legends from here.
--
Mark South Citizen of the World, Denizen of the Net <<Tiens!
Ce poulet a une grenade!

VisionSet said:

"Velvet" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news😄SImc.4186$8N2.40982787@news-
text.cableinet.net...

Quoted message said:

VisionSet said:

2 year old road bike with Tiagra gears and sora brakes
& hubs.

Tiagra levers - the change down (ie tensioning the cable)
action is too great. I have BIG hands and the throw is
just to far even for 1

sprocket at

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

a time. Which levers do a better job of this - for
next time?

I have tiagra levers etc. They work two different ways
when changing down. You can push the lever riiiight over,
hold, and it'll drop down three at a time (or maybe two,
depending on how it's feeling). Push it over only just far
enough (not all the way) and release when you feel it
start to drop and it'll change down only one gear.

It's designed that way, btw :-)

If on the other hand you're saying you can't (even with
big hands) move the lever over far enough to drop a gear,
then I'm gobsmacked,

Don't be gobsmacked, I can easily shift 1, 2 or 3 at a
time, I just think the design that requries that much
movement for 1 shift is poor. Compare it with down tube
shifters! And they call it an advance?! I have an
engineers mind, and with that comes fussy.

--
Mike W

Ah, I've never used downtubes, for me sti's are a godsend.
I'd not have a bike if they only came with downtube or bar-
end shifters! I've always thought if you're pulling on the
brakes then you don't want to shift down by accident, though
I admit I have yet to get the knack of braking while
shifting, which is apparently possible..

Velvet

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

C++ IS an object oriented programming language.

Barely true at best, but it may be an acceptable statement
if you are

being

Quoted message said:

generous, and there are no language designers or object
experts in the

room.

You'll need to read Simon's sig in full, not just the
snipped extract, to get the full irony of it.

This is part of the reason I don't like irrelevant sigs -
they just generate tangential threads. This is a cycling
forum, not a programming language forum.

d.
--
"It never gets easier, you just go faster." Greg LeMond

in message <[email hidden]>, Mark South

(') said:

"Peter Clinch" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Simon Brooke said:

C++ IS an object oriented programming language.

Barely true at best, but it may be an acceptable statement
if you are being generous, and there are no language
designers or object experts in the room.

Look, guys, it was a joke. It's only a .sig. And you can't
take one line of it out of context.

THE CONTEXT: .::;===r==\ / /___||___\____ //==\- ||- | /__\(
MS Windows IS an operating environment. //____\__||___|_//
\|: C++ IS an object oriented programming language. \__/
~~~~~~~~~ \__/ Citroen 2cv6 IS a four door family saloon.

What it's trying to say is that C++ is to a proper OO
language as a tin snail is to a motor car. And I don't
think either of you disagree. But it really isn't meant to
be analysed.

--
[email hidden] (Simon Brooke)
jasmine.org.uk~simonOpen ↗

...but have you *seen* the size of the world
wide spider?

davek said:

This is part of the reason I don't like irrelevant sigs -
they just generate tangential threads. This is a cycling
forum, not a programming language forum.

Not quite Dave, this is Usenet... ;-)

Pete.
--
Peter Clinch University of Dundee Tel 44 1382 660111 ext.
33637 Medical Physics, Ninewells Hospital Fax 44 1382 640177
Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK net [email hidden]
dundee.ac.uk~pjclinchOpen ↗

"davek" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> C++ IS an object oriented programming language.

Barely true at best, but it may be an acceptable
statement if

you are

Quoted message said:

being

Quoted message said:

generous, and there are no language designers or object

experts in the

Quoted message said:

room.

You'll need to read Simon's sig in full, not just
the snipped

extract, to

Quoted message said:

get the full irony of it.

Irony would require Simon not to post dangerous
misinformation about life and death topics.

Quoted message said:

This is part of the reason I don't like irrelevant
sigs - they

just generate

Quoted message said:

tangential threads. This is a cycling forum, not a
programming

language

Quoted message said:

forum.

You can discuss the quote in my sig if it'll give you some
relief, but you'll have to spot it first :-)
--
Mark South Citizen of the World, Denizen of the Net <<Tiens!
Ce poulet a une grenade!

"Simon Brooke" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

in message <[email hidden]>, Mark South

(') said:

"Peter Clinch" <[email hidden]> wrote in
message "]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Simon Brooke wrote:

> C++ IS an object oriented programming language.

Spit. Snarl. Hiss.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Barely true at best, but it may be an acceptable
statement if

you are

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

being generous, and there are no language designers or
object

experts

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

in the room.

Look, guys, it was a joke. It's only a .sig. And you
can't take

one line

Quoted message said:

of it out of context.

I was throwing in a line before replying to Pete's post
in more detail. It's not a very funny joke if you've
tried to undo the damage statements like that (made
seriously) have caused.

However, you could close with YHBTYHLHAND and I'd leave it.
(Ominous voice🙂 This time.

Kontext-away used here.

Quoted message said:

What it's trying to say is that C++ is to a proper OO
language

as a tin

Quoted message said:

snail is to a motor car. And I don't think either of you

disagree. But

Quoted message said:

it really isn't meant to be analysed.

Hey, if ya don' wan'it analysed, don't post ta a UK
newsgroup!
:-)
--
Mark South Citizen of the World, Denizen of the Net <<Tiens!
Ce poulet a une grenade!

Quoted message said:

Not quite Dave, this is Usenet... ;-)

Fair point!

d.

Peter Clinch said:

davek said:

This is part of the reason I don't like irrelevant sigs -
they just generate tangential threads. This is a cycling
forum, not a programming language forum.

Not quite Dave, this is Usenet... ;-)

But still off-topic

Tony ;-)

in message <[email hidden]>, Mark South

(') said:

"davek" <[email hidden]> wrote in
message "]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

You'll need to read Simon's sig in full, not just the
snipped

extract, to

Quoted message said:

get the full irony of it.

Irony would require Simon not to post dangerous
misinformation about life and death topics.

Oh? When do I do that?

--
[email hidden] (Simon Brooke)
jasmine.org.uk~simonOpen ↗

;; my other
religion is Emacs

Mark South:

Quoted message said:

Irony would require Simon not to post dangerous
misinformation about life and death topics.

I wouldn't know about that kind of thing. I just thought I'd
point out that you were responding to half a sig, but
perhaps you knew that already.

Quoted message said:

You can discuss the quote in my sig if it'll give you some
relief, but you'll have to spot it first :-)

I'm sure I recognize it... but I can't place it. It's
poulet as in slang for police officer rather than
chicken, isn't it?

d.