V2Formula vs GRR

stratrider said:

I just checked out the 2004 RANS lineup. Aside from the absence of the Vivo, the 2004 V2Formula
in silver blew me away. What a beauty! Now for the question. The high bb and light weight
suggests to me that this bike is one fast machine. So how does it stack up against the GRR,
another aluminum lwb?

Who cares about stacking, performance, handling and comfort are the important considerations. 😉

Frankly, if I preferred the upright seat, low BB position I would get the GRR and if I wanted a
higher BB with more seat recline I would get the Formula, as riding position will be more important
in the long run than any other differences between the two bikes.

The GRR will likely have a small advantage in rolling resistance and drivetrain friction. Without
front fairings or with front fairings and bodysocks the Formula would have lower frontal area and
would have an aerodynamic advantage. With front fairings only, it is less clear which bike would
have lower aerodynamic drag, as the smaller distance between the rider and the fairing on the GRR
should create a lower coefficient of drag which may compensate to some degree for the greater
frontal area.

Tom Sherman - 41 N, 90 W

Quoted post said:

Originally posted by Stratrider
I just checked out the 2004 RANS lineup. Aside from the absence of the Vivo, the 2004 V2Formula
in silver blew me away. What a beauty! Now for the question. The high bb and light weight
suggests to me that this bike is one fast machine. So how does it stack up against the GRR,
another aluminum lwb?

Jim Reilly Reading, PA

Aluminum frames... = $ makers. Hype sells. And little consumer advantages. Go with steel + bolt-ons.... and a vacation on Maui.

I think the V-2 Formula would be an awsome bike with a carbon hardshell
seat.
ben fox
"Tom Sherman" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
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Quoted message said:

stratrider said:

I just checked out the 2004 RANS lineup. Aside from the absence of the Vivo, the 2004 V2Formula
in silver blew me away. What a beauty! Now for the question. The high bb and light weight
suggests to me that this bike is one fast machine. So how does it stack up against the GRR,
another aluminum lwb?

Who cares about stacking, performance, handling and comfort are the important considerations. 😉

Frankly, if I preferred the upright seat, low BB position I would get the GRR and if I wanted a
higher BB with more seat recline I would get the Formula, as riding position will be more
important in the long run than any other differences between the two bikes.

The GRR will likely have a small advantage in rolling resistance and drivetrain friction. Without
front fairings or with front fairings and bodysocks the Formula would have lower frontal area and
would have an aerodynamic advantage. With front fairings only, it is less clear which bike would
have lower aerodynamic drag, as the smaller distance between the rider and the fairing on the GRR
should create a lower coefficient of drag which may compensate to some degree for the greater
frontal area.

Tom Sherman - 41 N, 90 W

Tom Sherman <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

stratrider said:

I just checked out the 2004 RANS lineup. Aside from the absence of the Vivo, the 2004 V2Formula
in silver blew me away. What a beauty! Now for the question. The high bb and light weight
suggests to me that this bike is one fast machine. So how does it stack up against the GRR,
another aluminum lwb?

Who cares about stacking, performance, handling and comfort are the important considerations. 😉

Frankly, if I preferred the upright seat, low BB position I would get the GRR and if I wanted a
higher BB with more seat recline I would get the Formula, as riding position will be more
important in the long run than any other differences between the two bikes.

The GRR will likely have a small advantage in rolling resistance and drivetrain friction. Without
front fairings or with front fairings and bodysocks the Formula would have lower frontal area and
would have an aerodynamic advantage. With front fairings only, it is less clear which bike would
have lower aerodynamic drag, as the smaller distance between the rider and the fairing on the GRR
should create a lower coefficient of drag which may compensate to some degree for the greater
frontal area.

Tom Sherman - 41 N, 90 W

I agree with Mr. Sherman (will wonders never cease!). The Formula (the V2 with the high BB) will be
the more comfortable bike because of the laid back seat angle, thus getting more weight off your
rear end. This becomes an important consideration if you go for long distance type tours. I have
both types of bikes myself and nothing handles like a Tour Easy, but for all day comfort I prefer
the laid back seat which you can only get with a high BB like the V2. Low BB recumbents always
handle better but high BB recumbents are more comfy for all day type rides. I have always considered
that the main advantage of the SWB type of recumbents is that they all have a fairly high BB which
contributes greatly to the comfort factor. The V2 is one of the very few LWB recumbents that offer a
high BB, so that you get SWB comfort along with all the many advantages of a LWB recumbent. But the
handling is not as intuitive as the Tour Easy.

Ed Dolan - Minnesota

"Edward Dolan" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
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Quoted message said:

I agree with Mr. Sherman (will wonders never cease!). The Formula (the V2 with the high BB) will
be the more comfortable bike because of the laid back seat angle, thus getting more weight off
your rear end.

Howdy folks!

I think that comfort level regarding high BB SWBs versus low BB LWBs is greatly influenced by your
physical size. I'm 6'7" and am not anywhere near as comfortable on a bike with a high BB as I am on
my Tour Easy SS XL. Ed, I don't think that what you say above can be a hard and fast rule because of
the wide variation in sizes of individual riders. As many say on here, your mileage may vary...

--
"Sea" ya!
--Lars S. Mulford
"You can find evil anywhere you look.
The question is, why are you looking?"

Tom Sherman <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

stratrider said:

I just checked out the 2004 RANS lineup. Aside from the absence of the Vivo, the 2004 V2Formula
in silver blew me away. What a beauty! Now for the question. The high bb and light weight
suggests to me that this bike is one fast machine. So how does it stack up against the GRR,
another aluminum lwb?

Who cares about stacking, performance, handling and comfort are the important considerations. 😉

First let me state the obvious... I care. Besides me, I am guessing that Randy Schlitter cares too.
It seems to me that the V2 Formula was created to compete directly with the GRR.

Jim

Ben Fox said:

I think the V-2 Formula would be an awsome bike with a carbon hardshell seat.

Ben,

According to the RCN that arrived in my mailbox a couple of days ago, you are THE EXPERT at doing
such seat conversions. 🙂

Another conversion option would be the Easy Racers Cobra seat. I understand that Easy Racers
refurbishes the Cobra seats they take in trade for Koolback seats and sells them for significantly
less than the price of a new Cobra.

Tom Sherman - 41 N, 90 W

"PaPa" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
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Quoted message said:

Aluminum frames... = $ makers. Hype sells. And little consumer advantages.

Lighter weight, better climbing? V2 Formula seems overpriced though. Isn't Aluminum cheaper than
CrMo anyway?

I'm not holding my breath waiting for the $2000 22lb recumbent . . . .

22 lb LWB = $6,000-plus = Fast Freddie's Calfee

--
Bob Siegel in Gainesville FL "BarryG" <barrygross at access4less.net> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"PaPa" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Aluminum frames... = $ makers. Hype sells. And little consumer advantages.

Lighter weight, better climbing? V2 Formula seems overpriced though.

Isn't

Quoted message said:

Aluminum cheaper than CrMo anyway?

I'm not holding my breath waiting for the $2000 22lb recumbent . . . .

1. V2 frame only weights is 1.5 to 2 pounds max (verified). So, is it worth the extra $ when a steel V2 can be built nearly as light?

2. Everything about the Formula points to harsher ride than the steel V2... including the frame. This, as others have pointed-out, can have a negative effect on performance.

3. Unlike uprights, recumbent frame manufactures are tight-lipped about bare frame weights. Why?... because they know that the two pounds (if that much?) saved doesn't justify an extra grand spent in the mind(s) of the consumer. Polish the frame and add a few high-end goodies to give the illusion that it's all in the frame and the plastic wielding consumers begin lining-up.

Quoted post said:

Originally posted by PaPa
1. V2 frame only weights is 1.5 to 2 pounds max (verified).

Oops... should read:

1. V2 frame only weight differences is 1.5 to 2 pounds max (verified).

Quoted post said:

Originally posted by Stratrider
I just checked out the 2004 RANS lineup. Aside from the absence of the Vivo, the 2004 V2Formula in silver blew me away. What a beauty! Now for the question. The high bb and light weight suggests to me that this bike is one fast machine. So how does it stack up against the GRR,another aluminum lwb?

Lets not create a misconception about low bb bikes not being fast. I admit that I like the higher BB of a V2. But I have seen some extremely fast low bb riders.

"Lars S. Mulford" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

"Edward Dolan" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I agree with Mr. Sherman (will wonders never cease!). The Formula (the V2 with the high BB) will
be the more comfortable bike because of the laid back seat angle, thus getting more weight off
your rear end.

Howdy folks!

I think that comfort level regarding high BB SWBs versus low BB LWBs is greatly influenced by
your physical size. I'm 6'7" and am not anywhere near as comfortable on a bike with a high BB as
I am on my Tour Easy SS XL. Ed, I don't think that what you say above can be a hard and fast rule
because of the wide variation in sizes of individual riders. As many say on here, your mileage
may vary...

I was only addressing the rear end of comfort, what is otherwise known as recumbent butt. There are
other factors that influence comfort, but I think it is pretty universally acknowledged that a laid
back seat will get weight off your rear end and place some of that weight on your back. This
translates for most folks as the ultimate comfort you can get on a bike.

On the other hand, I do know a few recumbent cyclists who can sit all day on a very upright seat and
not know what I am talking about, so I do agree with you that one's mileage may vary. Maybe I just
don't have enough natural padding in the old buttocks. 😉

Ed Dolan - Minnesota

The best that can be done to improve performance is.....replace body fat with muscle, train as
though you want to beat Lance. Once you have attained that and tuned your engine to that level, you
can rest assured you will blow the others away, no matter what they are riding. If you do not reach
that level, a few pounds here and there will not matter anyway. Lance on a Wal-Mart special against
me on my beautiful V2, Yeah Right....

"stratrider" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
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Quoted message said:

I just checked out the 2004 RANS lineup. Aside from the absence of the Vivo, the 2004 V2Formula
in silver blew me away. What a beauty! Now for the question. The high bb and light weight
suggests to me that this bike is one fast machine. So how does it stack up against the GRR,
another aluminum lwb?

Jim Reilly Reading, PA

PaPa said:

1. V2 frame only weights is 1.5 to 2 pounds max (verified). So, is it
worth the extra $ when a steel V2 can be built nearly as light?

I know you meant 1.5 to 2 pounds more which you re-posted. The extra weight can be worth the money
to some folks. It certainly does in the DF world. You can't remove weight from a frame once you have
one. The V2 steel model can never be 1.5 to 2 pounds lighter when built with comparable components.

Quoted message said:

2. Everything about the Formula points to harsher ride than the steel
V2... including the frame. This, as others have pointed-out, can have a negative effect on
performance.

"Points to", but not verified till more folks get a chance to find out for themselves. Try one
before judging it's ride quality. I don't hear too many folks complain about the GRR ride
quality either.

Quoted message said:

3. Unlike uprights, recumbent frame manufactures are tight-lipped about bare frame weights.
Why?... because they know that the two pounds (if that much?) saved doesn't justify an
extra grand spent in the mind(s) of the consumer. Polish the frame and add a few high-end
goodies to give the illusion that it's all in the frame and the plastic wielding consumers
begin lining-up.

I don't believe most recumbent builders are trying to deceive the consumer. The consumer as always
will determine the worth and success of any recumbent offering.

Happy Holidays Rick Steele

Gold Country Cyclery 3081 Alhambra Dr. Suite 103 Cameron Park, CA 95682 Ph: (530) 676-3305 Fax:
(530) 672-0501 Email: [email hidden] Website: tandems-recumbents.comtandems-recumbents.comOpen ↗

"PaPa" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
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Quoted message said:

because they know that the two pounds (if that much?) saved doesn't justify an extra grand
spent in the mind(s) of the consumer.

Not true at all. A buck per gram saved has served as a good rule of thumb for me over the years. So
two pounds saved for $1000 is actually quite cost effective.

Cheers, Barry

stratrider said:

Tom Sherman <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

stratrider said:

I just checked out the 2004 RANS lineup. Aside from the absence of the Vivo, the 2004
V2Formula in silver blew me away. What a beauty! Now for the question. The high bb and light
weight suggests to me that this bike is one fast machine. So how does it stack up against the
GRR, another aluminum lwb?

Who cares about stacking, performance, handling and comfort are the important considerations. 😉

First let me state the obvious... I care. Besides me, I am guessing that Randy Schlitter cares
too. It seems to me that the V2 Formula was created to compete directly with the GRR.

Maybe I should have used a semicolon instead of a comma.

I really doubt Randy Schlitter cares how well the Formula stacks. Bikes are meant for riding, not
stacking. 😉

Tom "Facetious" Sherman - 41 N, 90 W

Benjamin Enriquez said:

The best that can be done to improve performance is.....replace body fat with muscle, train as
though you want to beat Lance. Once you have attained that and tuned your engine to that level,
you can rest assured you will blow the others away, no matter what they are riding. If you do not
reach that level, a few pounds here and there will not matter anyway. Lance on a Wal-Mart special
against me on my beautiful V2, Yeah Right....

I will race Lance Armstrong any day. I will get the lightweight streamliner and Lance will get the
cargo trike with a load of lead ingots. 😉

Tom Sherman - 41 N, 90 W

Rick Steele said:

... You can't remove weight from a frame once you have one....

This is not exactly true. Lightening holes could be drilled and/or metal ground from the tubes to
reduce their wall thickness.

I would not recommend trying this methods under most circumstances, however, as a ruined frame will
be the likely result.

Tom "Pedantic" Sherman - 41 N, 90 W