V02max int following threshold int?

nmcgann said:

I've noticed a pattern in my TTing that I am wondering about. I hardly ever manage to increase my power output in the last few minutes of a race - normally I'm stuggling to hold power constant never mind increase it.

same here. Certainly not for 5-min! I'd say the last km I can typically pull a few extra Watts out but honestly no more than that.

From other people's description of TTing that doesn't sound normal (whatever normal is 😉). Can people generally do a 5min VO2max interval straight after a 20min threshold interval?

not a chance for me ... not a chance ... assuming the interval was at FTP power or slightly higher.

Is it a function of what % of FTP the threshold interval was at? (i.e. 95% - maybe, 105% - no way)

Perhaps what people are reporting is more of a PE than a power ramp if you know what I mean? I'm referring to the race reports here.

Neil

....

Since I gave some descriptions recently, I'll respond.

nmcgann said:

From other people's description of TTing that doesn't sound normal (whatever normal is 😉). Can people generally do a 5min VO2max interval straight after a 20min threshold interval?

No way. Maybe, just maybe, under the right level of rest, at the end of a 20 minute interval, I might be able to squeeze out 1 minute solidly in VO2-land at the end. More likely something less. I just did one hour at ~93% the other day and barely managed the last minute at about 5% above where I was riding before that (not 5% above FTP).

nmcgann said:

Is it a function of what % of FTP the threshold interval was at? (i.e. 95% - maybe, 105% - no way)

For sure. The higher the intensity you are riding at, the less reserve you have "in the tank" for the end. That's why when I do 1 hour "bursty" @ FTP (by NP) on hilly terrain (drilling it up hills) to simulate a hard race, I have to back off the average effort so that the average power is at least low L4 or high L3. I need the headroom otherwise the hard efforts up hills will be blunted. The same thing goes for the end of a TT or interval.

I think that interval duration has a similar effect too.

Can people generally do a 5min VO2max interval straight after a 20min threshold interval?

Yes, quite frequently that's how i plan my workout...and for sure i'm no cycling superstar. FTP is based on the 1 hour output (whether derived or done over an hour), so at only 20 mins of effort around about my FTP, i still have 40 min's left in the tank to use up. My usualy workout will go somethign like this: start with 5 mins of z5 (lower end), settle into pacing rhythm around FTP for 20 min's or so, then do another 5 min of z5 (as high as i can go) to complet the 30 min workout. The power profile will look like a "u" Repeat that twice. Helps to have a hill at the end to climb to keep you honest 🙂

Now if you're talking about 20 mins of a blow-out style effort where you're toast the whole time, that's probably more a mix of Vo2 and FTP efforts anyway, so with that in mind, if you're on the rivet the whole time it's unlikely you'll be able to eek out even more watts for 5 mins. Consider why you're doing the effort in the grand scheme and that can help. zone 4 efforts/FTP don't need to be done at upper end bordering on z5 to be beneficial.

-Mike

thekgb said:

Can people generally do a 5min VO2max interval straight after a 20min threshold interval?

Yes, quite frequently that's how i plan my workout...and for sure i'm no cycling superstar. FTP is based on the 1 hour output (whether derived or done over an hour), so at only 20 mins of effort around about my FTP, i still have 40 min's left in the tank to use up. My usualy workout will go somethign like this: start with 5 mins of z5 (lower end), settle into pacing rhythm around FTP for 20 min's or so, then do another 5 min of z5 (as high as i can go) to complet the 30 min workout. The power profile will look like a "u" Repeat that twice. Helps to have a hill at the end to climb to keep you honest 🙂

Now if you're talking about 20 mins of a blow-out style effort where you're toast the whole time, that's probably more a mix of Vo2 and FTP efforts anyway, so with that in mind, if you're on the rivet the whole time it's unlikely you'll be able to eek out even more watts for 5 mins. Consider why you're doing the effort in the grand scheme and that can help. zone 4 efforts/FTP don't need to be done at upper end bordering on z5 to be beneficial.

-Mike

Would you mind sharing your 20MP/FTP and your 5MP/FTP ratios?

Mine are 1.03-1.04 and 1.18-1.19. So I can't handle much over FTP ... period :o !

rmur17 said:

Would you mind sharing your 20MP/FTP and your 5MP/FTP ratios?

Mine are 1.03-1.04 and 1.18-1.19. So I can't handle much over FTP ... period :o !

Rick, I'm about 1.10-1.12 and 1.28-1.30 right now and I couldn't do that either.

Would you mind sharing your 20MP/FTP and your 5MP/FTP ratios?

sure. as a caveat i don't typically do 20 min intervals, the lowest i do is usually 30 min, but if i had to guesstimate:

20/FTP: 1.08

and dedicated 5 min intervals i've just started doing in my program and top's i've been able to do is: 1.17

i'm not killing anyone for sure! it's more about pacing.

-Mike

IMO, 5 min VO2max interval at the end of a 20 min FTP interval is probably more anaerobic than VO2max. I'm usually able to increase intensity the last few minutes of an intense LT level interval, but I suspect it's due to my above average anaerobic capacity. More than anything it's probably an anaerobic interval at L5 power. Not that there's anything wrong with that at the end of a TT. 🙂

Piotr said:

IMO, 5 min VO2max interval at the end of a 20 min FTP interval is probably more anaerobic than VO2max. I'm usually able to increase intensity the last few minutes of an intense LT level interval, but I suspect it's due to my above average anaerobic capacity. More than anything it's probably an anaerobic interval at L5 power. Not that there's anything wrong with that at the end of a TT. 🙂

Same here i think. 5min NP power/60min power 1.33. Possibly why i'm having to concentrate on raising FTP. Not my favourite as i'm a light punchy rider😉

nmcgann said:

I've noticed a pattern in my TTing that I am wondering about. I hardly ever manage to increase my power output in the last few minutes of a race - normally I'm stuggling to hold power constant never mind increase it.

From other people's description of TTing that doesn't sound normal (whatever normal is 😉). Can people generally do a 5min VO2max interval straight after a 20min threshold interval?

Is it a function of what % of FTP the threshold interval was at? (i.e. 95% - maybe, 105% - no way)

Neil

I'd say you were hitting the right pace in the TT. If you've paced pretty evenly throughout the event and you're on the limit and just able to maintain the desired pace to the finish then consider it a job well done.

If it's an important event and you have something left to where you can add another one or two mph in the last 1/2 mile or so then you've left some time out on the course.

You guys have some great courses down there, nice and fast... but not as fast as some of the H and E courses... I still remember watching Boardmans "45" on the H25/13, fixed gear, no aerohat.