USPS new sponsor?

{Tech439} CKuhn said:

Since the postal service is not renewing sponsorship,
anyone hear of the new sponsor? I see AMD on their
jerseys...but hadn't heard anything...

They're going to merge with what's left of Brioches La
Boulangère and be sponsored by Berry Floor/AMD/Vendee U

"{Tech439} CKuhn" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Since the postal service is not renewing sponsorship,
anyone hear of the

new

Quoted message said:

sponsor? I see AMD on their jerseys...but hadn't heard
anything...

Old news. It's NASCAR. Lance will race with a big "3" on his
back next year.

Bob C.

"{Tech439} CKuhn" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Since the postal service is not renewing sponsorship,
anyone hear of the

new

Quoted message said:

sponsor? I see AMD on their jerseys...but hadn't heard
anything...

AMD joined a few years ago

"{Tech439} CKuhn" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Since the postal service is not renewing sponsorship,
anyone hear of the

new

Quoted message said:

sponsor? I see AMD on their jerseys...but hadn't heard
anything...

Failing to bring in a new sponsor means Berry Floor gets
promoted and the budget gets cut dramatically. Armstrong can
afford to race for a greatly reduced salary in exchange for
keeping his prize money or just to keep the team going.

The buzz is that it is too risky for a sponsor to take on
the team since it is not known how long Armstrong will be
racing and winning big races. I think if any sponsor had
been interested (including the risk) and able we would have
heard by now. If anyone is intertested they are going to
wait to see how he does this July. Armstrong and therefore
the team are facing their biggest challenge (winning an
enprecedented 6th Tour) since their arrival in the Top Club.

"Chris" <[email hidden]> wrote in message

Quoted message said:

Failing to bring in a new sponsor means Berry Floor gets
promoted and the budget gets cut dramatically. Armstrong
can afford to race for a greatly reduced salary in
exchange for keeping his prize money or just to keep the
team going.

I'd bet that winning all three GTs and all the WC races
would not generate as much prize money as Armstrong makes
from Postal.

I don't see Armstrong being that altruistic. Just as he has
enough money to take a cut in pay, he also has enough money
to retire from competition and change directions in his
career. He has realized a certain value for his services as
a professional bicycle racer and I don't foresee him
continuing to race if his competitive level remains in his
current range but compensation offers drop significantly.

Carl Sundquist said:

"Chris" <[email hidden]> wrote in message

Quoted message said:

Failing to bring in a new sponsor means Berry Floor gets
promoted and the budget gets cut dramatically. Armstrong
can afford to race for a greatly reduced salary in
exchange for keeping his prize money or just to keep the
team going.

I'd bet that winning all three GTs and all the WC races
would not generate as much prize money as Armstrong makes
from Postal.

I don't see Armstrong being that altruistic. Just as he
has enough money to take a cut in pay, he also has enough
money to retire from competition and change directions in
his career. He has realized a certain value for his
services as a professional bicycle racer and I don't
foresee him continuing to race if his competitive level
remains in his current range but compensation offers drop
significantly.

I don't actually know what he's paid or what he wins BUT ...
I'll bet it's all loose change compared to what he pulls
down in endorsements.

Anyone working for the IRS want to post Lance's tax returns?

--

--------------------

Remove CLOTHES to reply

"Tim Lines" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:r5bwc.45393$3x.33222@attbi_s54...

Quoted message said:

Carl Sundquist said:

"Chris" <[email hidden]> wrote in message

Quoted message said:

Failing to bring in a new sponsor means Berry Floor gets
promoted and

the

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

budget gets cut dramatically. Armstrong can afford to
race for a greatly reduced salary in exchange for
keeping his prize money or just to keep

the

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

team going.

I'd bet that winning all three GTs and all the WC races
would not

generate

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

as much prize money as Armstrong makes from Postal.

I don't see Armstrong being that altruistic. Just as he
has enough money

to

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

take a cut in pay, he also has enough money to retire
from competition

and

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

change directions in his career. He has realized a
certain value for his services as a professional bicycle
racer and I don't foresee him

continuing

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

to race if his competitive level remains in his current
range but compensation offers drop significantly.

I don't actually know what he's paid or what he wins BUT
... I'll bet it's all loose change compared to what he
pulls down in endorsements.

Anyone working for the IRS want to post Lance's tax
returns?

IIRC, his prize money from the Tour only amounts to
about $400K.

Regardless, someone in his position doesn't 'give away' team
money just because he rakes in an even greater amount
through endorsements.

This isn't a guy on a city based ball team who will take a
cut in pay to move to another team to get a big ring.

"Carl Sundquist" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"Chris" <[email hidden]> wrote in message

Quoted message said:

Failing to bring in a new sponsor means Berry Floor gets
promoted and

the

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

budget gets cut dramatically. Armstrong can afford to
race for a greatly reduced salary in exchange for
keeping his prize money or just to keep

the

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

team going.

I'd bet that winning all three GTs and all the WC races
would not generate as much prize money as Armstrong makes
from Postal.

I don't see Armstrong being that altruistic.

I agree, but I was trying to say that would be what it
would take.

Just as he has enough money to

Quoted message said:

take a cut in pay, he also has enough money to retire from
competition and change directions in his career. He has
realized a certain value for his services as a
professional bicycle racer and I don't foresee him

continuing

Quoted message said:

to race if his competitive level remains in his current
range but compensation offers drop significantly.

I agree. I think the team will disolve or go through a
dramatic re-org. The only question is whether Bruyneel will
hang around to rebuild.

"Carl Sundquist" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I'd bet that winning all three GTs and all the WC races
would not generate as much prize money as Armstrong makes
from Postal.

Times have changed Carl. Lance's pay is probably a pitance
compared to his commercial deals.

"Tim Lines" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:r5bwc.45393$3x.33222@attbi_s54...

Quoted message said:

Carl Sundquist said:

"Chris" <[email hidden]> wrote in message

Quoted message said:

Failing to bring in a new sponsor means Berry Floor gets
promoted and

the

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

budget gets cut dramatically. Armstrong can afford to
race for a greatly reduced salary in exchange for
keeping his prize money or just to keep

the

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

team going.

I'd bet that winning all three GTs and all the WC races
would not

generate

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

as much prize money as Armstrong makes from Postal.

I don't see Armstrong being that altruistic. Just as he
has enough money

to

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

take a cut in pay, he also has enough money to retire
from competition

and

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

change directions in his career. He has realized a
certain value for his services as a professional bicycle
racer and I don't foresee him

continuing

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

to race if his competitive level remains in his current
range but compensation offers drop significantly.

I don't actually know what he's paid or what he wins BUT
... I'll bet it's all loose change compared to what he
pulls down in endorsements.

IIRC, he makes about 15 million per year but I don't know if
that is only from endorsments or if it includes all souces.

Quoted message said:

Anyone working for the IRS want to post Lance's tax
returns?

--

--------------------

Remove CLOTHES to reply

"Tom Kunich" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"Carl Sundquist" <[email hidden]> wrote in
message "]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I'd bet that winning all three GTs and all the WC races
would not

generate

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

as much prize money as Armstrong makes from Postal.

Times have changed Carl. Lance's pay is probably a pitance
compared to his commercial deals.

IIRC He makes about $3M a year in salary from USPS the rest
is in endorsements. His deal with Subaru I believe $12M for
4 years, then there is Nike, Bristol Squib, etc Also I think
USPS puts all prize moeny in a pot and disperses it at the
end of the year amongst the WHOLE team, riders, staff,
soiengeurs (sp) mechanics, etc. When Indurain was winning
all his tours, after the 3rd, he would give all TDF money to
the team to split because he had a good bonus from Banesto
for winning the TDF

Dave

"Carl Sundquist" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

I don't see Armstrong being that altruistic. Just as he
has enough money to take a cut in pay, he also has enough
money to retire from competition and change directions in
his career. He has realized a certain value for his
services as a professional bicycle racer and I don't
foresee him continuing to race if his competitive level
remains in his current range but compensation offers drop
significantly.

That is erroneous. He makes the bulk of his money from
endorsements, not salary and my very well placed sources
tell me that Kristin is going to get half of it.

toodles,

Brian Lafferty

"Brian Laffatme" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"Carl Sundquist" <[email hidden]> wrote in
message

news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I don't see Armstrong being that altruistic. Just as he
has enough money

to

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

take a cut in pay, he also has enough money to retire
from competition

and

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

change directions in his career. He has realized a
certain value for his services as a professional bicycle
racer and I don't foresee him

continuing

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

to race if his competitive level remains in his current
range but compensation offers drop significantly.

That is erroneous. He makes the bulk of his money from
endorsements, not salary and my very well placed sources
tell me that Kristin is going to get half of it.

toodles,

Brian Lafferty

From Sports Illustrated article on 50 highest paid US
athletes:

460,000 salary last year 16,500,000 endorsements and
appearance fees for a total of 16,960,000

Cat

"Cat Dailey" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"Brian Laffatme" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"Carl Sundquist" <[email hidden]> wrote in
message

news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I don't see Armstrong being that altruistic. Just as
he has enough

money

Quoted message said:

to

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

take a cut in pay, he also has enough money to retire
from competition

and

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

change directions in his career. He has realized a
certain value for

his

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

services as a professional bicycle racer and I don't
foresee him

continuing

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

to race if his competitive level remains in his
current range but compensation offers drop
significantly.

That is erroneous. He makes the bulk of his money from
endorsements, not salary and my very well placed sources
tell me that Kristin is going to get half of it.

toodles,

Brian Lafferty

From Sports Illustrated article on 50 highest paid US
athletes:

460,000 salary last year 16,500,000 endorsements and
appearance fees for a total of 16,960,000

Cat

Well I know the salary stated there is wrong, he was making
$2mil after winning his 3rd TDF. Heck Roberto Heras was
making $750K a year riding for USPS Dave

I thought that Lance was already doing that. In fact I
read a couple of years ago that the French were trying to
tax him on the prize money. And his representative said
that he shouldn't be taxed because he had given it up. It
was a big deal at the time because none of the other tour
winners was being hassled about their winnings when they
did the same thing.

"Dave H" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

When Indurain was winning all his tours, after the 3rd,
he would give all TDF money to the team to split because
he had a good bonus from Banesto for winning the TDF

Dave

On Sun, 06 Jun 2004 03:41:00 GMT, "jquinn1" <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

I thought that Lance was already doing that. In fact I
read a couple of years ago that the French were trying to
tax him on the prize money. And his representative said
that he shouldn't be taxed because he had given it up. It
was a big deal at the time because none of the other tour
winners was being hassled about their winnings when they
did the same thing.

That is because the Frogs suck.

Quoted message said:

jquinn1 said:

I thought that Lance was already doing that. In fact I
read a couple of years ago that the French were trying to
tax him on the prize money. And his representative said
that he shouldn't be taxed because he had given it up. It
was a big deal at the time because none of the other tour
winners was being hassled about their winnings when they
did the same thing.

Briefly, and as non technically as possible, the tax
situation is this:

Several years ago it was determined by the taxing
authorities in several countries that certain types of
taxpayers, professional athletes included, and those
peripherally engaged in the business of ``sport''
(soigneurs, directeurs sportives etc) could not be trusted
to declare their World Income (Income from anywhere at all)
on their Income Tax Returns.

[Remember the arrest of the Soigneurs at the Grenoble Six-
Day a few years back?? The main criminal charges there were
Tax Evasion.]

So the imposition of a ''Withholding Tax'' was mandated by
most countries which puts the onus on the Payer to deduct a
stipulated percentage of payments made to persons (real or
legal. ie corporations) for certain types of actvity
(Payment of Prize Money being one).

Upon filing an Income Tax Return, the Payee (the
PrizeWinner) deducts the WithHolding Tax made by the Payer
from whatever tax is payable.

If the Payee is not resident in the jurisdiction of the
Payer, a claim for Foreign Taxes Paid can be made made by
the Payee when submitting the Annual Income Tax Return to
the Taxing Authorities of whichever Country the Payee is
Legally required to pay taxes in.

And here the waters become very murky indeed.

Firstly, if we limit this discussion to athletes, any
athlete with half a brain sets up residence in Monaco, San
Marino or Andorra, which are nominally independent
jurisdictions although their independence rests on the
goodwill of their host country. (France, Italy and Spain
respectively).

The aforementioned ``states'' and other similar entities
around the world do not impose taxes upon their residents.

Secondly, all civilized (sic) countries have entered into
what are known as Reciprocal Joint Tax Conventions with each
other. The raison d'etre for these Conventions is the
recognition that a hardship exists where several Taxing
Jurisdictions might, but for the existance of the
Conventions be able to severally tax the same income.

So the ``Conventions'' came into being and one of the main
benefits being that if a Taxpayer (The Payee or Athlete)
did not reside in a particular Jurisdiction for in excess
of 184 days in any particular Calendar Year that
Jurisdiction would forgo its right to levy taxes on the
income of such a Taxpayer.

So if you have followed along thus far, you will see that
say, an Australian who races in Europe might be subject only
to French (Or Italian or Wherever) Income taxes if he
resided in France during the Racing Season and Australia,
under the Reciprocal Joint Tax Convention would cede its
right to tax one of its citizens to the other party to the
Convention.

The other Murky area is the determination of the income upon
which tax is exigible. Any and all ``reasonable'' expenses
are deductible from Gross income under normal accounting
standards. But the distribution of a major prize (Tour de
France winnings) is open to interpretation. Is it a gift? A
payment for services rendered? A distribution of Capital?
And is it a legitimate expenditure when computing income?

When prizes and salaries and endorsement revenues for
athletes were relatively small the Taxing Authorities paid
little attention to the matter but in latter years the tax
being evaded is significant and I can assure you that it is
NOT just one athlete or one sport or in fact any one country
that is being put under the microscope, and in actual fact
France has been typically more relexed in its enforcement of
its Taxing Rights than most other countries.

And as icing on the cake, an athlete, even if not resident
of Monaco, San Marino or Andorra etc., can avoid taxation
totally by ``Pleading the Conventions`` if he resides in any
particular jurisdiction for under 184 days in any particular
year. This can be done by changing residences and although
it is quite possible to accomplish this using only two
residences it is more normal and much safer to use three and
avoid having to argue the fact.

What happens to the withholding taxes where an athlete can
establish at years end that they are not subject to tax at
all is another matter. In effect sometimes it can be
recouped by filing an Income Tax Return for the Jurisdiction
where the WithHolding was made accompanied by certain other
documents.

--
le Vent a Dos Davey Crockett Six-Day site:
members.rogers.comsixday.htmlOpen ↗ Please address
all replies to the list

"Dave H" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"Cat Dailey" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:7t6dnbZVWPgHP1zdRVn-
[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"Brian Laffatme" <[email hidden]> wrote in
message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"Carl Sundquist" <[email hidden]> wrote in
message

news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

>
> I don't see Armstrong being that altruistic. Just as
> he has enough

money

Quoted message said:

to

Quoted message said:

> take a cut in pay, he also has enough money to
> retire from

competition

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

and

Quoted message said:

> change directions in his career. He has realized a
> certain value for

his

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> services as a professional bicycle racer and I don't
> foresee him

continuing

Quoted message said:

> to race if his competitive level remains in his
> current range but compensation offers drop
> significantly.

That is erroneous. He makes the bulk of his money
from endorsements, not salary and my very well
placed sources tell me that Kristin is going to get
half of it.

toodles,

Brian Lafferty

From Sports Illustrated article on 50 highest paid US
athletes:

460,000 salary last year 16,500,000 endorsements and
appearance fees for a total of 16,960,000

Cat

Well I know the salary stated there is wrong, he was
making $2mil after winning his 3rd TDF. Heck Roberto Heras
was making $750K a year riding for USPS Dave

According to what source? That is what I recall as well, but
maybe it was a contract valued at 2 million over 4 years? It
is also possible he allowed his salary to be reduced. Maybe
he was making 2 million in salary then but now he only needs
a half million in exchange for more control over the team
(or any number of reasons). His most recent endorsement
deals have made his salary almost irrelavant or worse, his
salary is a liability if it means that the team is weaker by
paying too much of its salary to Armstrong and then can't
afford the quality team memebers to keep the whole franchise
going. I can easily imagine a discussion with Lance in the
last few years (as soon as his endorsements deals
overshadowed his team salary) advising him to ensure the
value of his personal brand (whatever you want to call it)
by assuring the team had enough quality riders to work for
him in gaining the next Tour win.

Use your imagination a bit.

"Chris" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Well I know the salary stated there is wrong, he was
making $2mil after winning his 3rd TDF. Heck Roberto
Heras was making $750K a year riding

for

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

USPS Dave

According to what source? That is what I recall as well,
but maybe it was

a

Quoted message said:

contract valued at 2 million over 4 years? It is also
possible he allowed his salary to be reduced. Maybe he was
making 2 million in salary then but now he only needs a
half million in exchange for more control over the

team

Quoted message said:

(or any number of reasons). His most recent endorsement
deals have made

his

Quoted message said:

salary almost irrelavant or worse, his salary is a
liability if it means that the team is weaker by paying
too much of its salary to Armstrong and then can't afford
the quality team memebers to keep the whole franchise
going. I can easily imagine a discussion with Lance in the
last few years (as soon as his endorsements deals
overshadowed his team salary) advising him to ensure the
value of his personal brand (whatever you want to call

it)

Quoted message said:

by assuring the team had enough quality riders to work for
him in gaining the next Tour win.

Use your imagination a bit.

Use your effin head a bit, you just said " That is what I
seem to recall" Last year during the TDF Armstrongs salary
was stated at $3M a year, Again use you head, $2M over 4
years is $500K, that would put him in inline with some of
the "really good" riders in the euro ranks, you don't win
3-5 straight TDF and make only $500K a year, If you do, you
need to go to school and take a lesson in salary
negotiations. And know I ain't gonna "google" for the
written in stone version. you go look it up

Dave