USPS new sponsor?

{Tech439} CKuhn said:

Since the postal service is not renewing sponsorship, anyone hear of the new
sponsor? I see AMD on their jerseys...but hadn't heard anything...

They're going to merge with what's left of Brioches La Boulangère and be
sponsored by Berry Floor/AMD/Vendee U

"{Tech439} CKuhn" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Since the postal service is not renewing sponsorship, anyone hear of the

new

Quoted message said:

sponsor? I see AMD on their jerseys...but hadn't heard anything...

Old news. It's NASCAR. Lance will race with a big "3" on his back next
year.

Bob C.

"{Tech439} CKuhn" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Since the postal service is not renewing sponsorship, anyone hear of the

new

Quoted message said:

sponsor? I see AMD on their jerseys...but hadn't heard anything...

AMD joined a few years ago

"{Tech439} CKuhn" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Since the postal service is not renewing sponsorship, anyone hear of the

new

Quoted message said:

sponsor? I see AMD on their jerseys...but hadn't heard anything...

Failing to bring in a new sponsor means Berry Floor gets promoted and the
budget gets cut dramatically. Armstrong can afford to race for a greatly
reduced salary in exchange for keeping his prize money or just to keep the
team going.

The buzz is that it is too risky for a sponsor to take on the team since it
is not known how long Armstrong will be racing and winning big races. I
think if any sponsor had been interested (including the risk) and able we
would have heard by now. If anyone is intertested they are going to wait to
see how he does this July. Armstrong and therefore the team are facing their
biggest challenge (winning an enprecedented 6th Tour) since their arrival in
the Top Club.

"Chris" <[email hidden]> wrote in message

Quoted message said:

Failing to bring in a new sponsor means Berry Floor gets promoted and the
budget gets cut dramatically. Armstrong can afford to race for a greatly
reduced salary in exchange for keeping his prize money or just to keep the
team going.

I'd bet that winning all three GTs and all the WC races would not generate
as much prize money as Armstrong makes from Postal.

I don't see Armstrong being that altruistic. Just as he has enough money to
take a cut in pay, he also has enough money to retire from competition and
change directions in his career. He has realized a certain value for his
services as a professional bicycle racer and I don't foresee him continuing
to race if his competitive level remains in his current range but
compensation offers drop significantly.

Carl Sundquist said:

"Chris" <[email hidden]> wrote in message

Quoted message said:

Failing to bring in a new sponsor means Berry Floor gets promoted and the
budget gets cut dramatically. Armstrong can afford to race for a greatly
reduced salary in exchange for keeping his prize money or just to keep the
team going.

I'd bet that winning all three GTs and all the WC races would not generate
as much prize money as Armstrong makes from Postal.

I don't see Armstrong being that altruistic. Just as he has enough money to
take a cut in pay, he also has enough money to retire from competition and
change directions in his career. He has realized a certain value for his
services as a professional bicycle racer and I don't foresee him continuing
to race if his competitive level remains in his current range but
compensation offers drop significantly.

I don't actually know what he's paid or what he wins BUT ... I'll bet
it's all loose change compared to what he pulls down in endorsements.

Anyone working for the IRS want to post Lance's tax returns?

--

--------------------

Remove CLOTHES to reply

"Tim Lines" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:r5bwc.45393$3x.33222@attbi_s54...

Quoted message said:

Carl Sundquist said:

"Chris" <[email hidden]> wrote in message

Quoted message said:

Failing to bring in a new sponsor means Berry Floor gets promoted and

the

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

budget gets cut dramatically. Armstrong can afford to race for a greatly
reduced salary in exchange for keeping his prize money or just to keep

the

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

team going.

I'd bet that winning all three GTs and all the WC races would not

generate

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

as much prize money as Armstrong makes from Postal.

I don't see Armstrong being that altruistic. Just as he has enough money

to

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

take a cut in pay, he also has enough money to retire from competition

and

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

change directions in his career. He has realized a certain value for his
services as a professional bicycle racer and I don't foresee him

continuing

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

to race if his competitive level remains in his current range but
compensation offers drop significantly.

I don't actually know what he's paid or what he wins BUT ... I'll bet
it's all loose change compared to what he pulls down in endorsements.

Anyone working for the IRS want to post Lance's tax returns?

IIRC, his prize money from the Tour only amounts to about $400K.

Regardless, someone in his position doesn't 'give away' team money just
because he rakes in an even greater amount through endorsements.

This isn't a guy on a city based ball team who will take a cut in pay to
move to another team to get a big ring.

"Carl Sundquist" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"Chris" <[email hidden]> wrote in message

Quoted message said:

Failing to bring in a new sponsor means Berry Floor gets promoted and

the

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

budget gets cut dramatically. Armstrong can afford to race for a greatly
reduced salary in exchange for keeping his prize money or just to keep

the

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

team going.

I'd bet that winning all three GTs and all the WC races would not generate
as much prize money as Armstrong makes from Postal.

I don't see Armstrong being that altruistic.

I agree, but I was trying to say that would be what it would take.

Just as he has enough money to

Quoted message said:

take a cut in pay, he also has enough money to retire from competition and
change directions in his career. He has realized a certain value for his
services as a professional bicycle racer and I don't foresee him

continuing

Quoted message said:

to race if his competitive level remains in his current range but
compensation offers drop significantly.

I agree. I think the team will disolve or go through a dramatic re-org. The
only question is whether Bruyneel will hang around to rebuild.

"Tim Lines" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:r5bwc.45393$3x.33222@attbi_s54...

Quoted message said:

Carl Sundquist said:

"Chris" <[email hidden]> wrote in message

Quoted message said:

Failing to bring in a new sponsor means Berry Floor gets promoted and

the

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

budget gets cut dramatically. Armstrong can afford to race for a greatly
reduced salary in exchange for keeping his prize money or just to keep

the

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

team going.

I'd bet that winning all three GTs and all the WC races would not

generate

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

as much prize money as Armstrong makes from Postal.

I don't see Armstrong being that altruistic. Just as he has enough money

to

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

take a cut in pay, he also has enough money to retire from competition

and

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

change directions in his career. He has realized a certain value for his
services as a professional bicycle racer and I don't foresee him

continuing

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

to race if his competitive level remains in his current range but
compensation offers drop significantly.

I don't actually know what he's paid or what he wins BUT ... I'll bet
it's all loose change compared to what he pulls down in endorsements.

IIRC, he makes about 15 million per year but I don't know if that is only
from endorsments
or if it includes all souces.

Quoted message said:

Anyone working for the IRS want to post Lance's tax returns?

--

--------------------

Remove CLOTHES to reply

"Carl Sundquist" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I'd bet that winning all three GTs and all the WC races would not generate
as much prize money as Armstrong makes from Postal.

Times have changed Carl. Lance's pay is probably a pitance compared to his
commercial deals.

"Tom Kunich" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"Carl Sundquist" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I'd bet that winning all three GTs and all the WC races would not

generate

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

as much prize money as Armstrong makes from Postal.

Times have changed Carl. Lance's pay is probably a pitance compared to his
commercial deals.

IIRC He makes about $3M a year in salary from USPS the rest is in
endorsements. His deal with Subaru I believe $12M for 4 years, then there is
Nike, Bristol Squib, etc
Also I think USPS puts all prize moeny in a pot and disperses it at the end
of the year amongst the WHOLE team, riders, staff, soiengeurs (sp)
mechanics, etc. When Indurain was winning all his tours, after the 3rd, he
would give all TDF money to the team to split because he had a good bonus
from Banesto for winning the TDF

Dave

"Carl Sundquist" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

I don't see Armstrong being that altruistic. Just as he has enough money to
take a cut in pay, he also has enough money to retire from competition and
change directions in his career. He has realized a certain value for his
services as a professional bicycle racer and I don't foresee him continuing
to race if his competitive level remains in his current range but
compensation offers drop significantly.

That is erroneous. He makes the bulk of his money from endorsements,
not salary and my very well placed sources tell me that Kristin is
going to get half of it.

toodles,

Brian Lafferty

"Brian Laffatme" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"Carl Sundquist" <[email hidden]> wrote in message

news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I don't see Armstrong being that altruistic. Just as he has enough money

to

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

take a cut in pay, he also has enough money to retire from competition

and

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

change directions in his career. He has realized a certain value for his
services as a professional bicycle racer and I don't foresee him

continuing

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

to race if his competitive level remains in his current range but
compensation offers drop significantly.

That is erroneous. He makes the bulk of his money from endorsements,
not salary and my very well placed sources tell me that Kristin is
going to get half of it.

toodles,

Brian Lafferty

From Sports Illustrated article on 50 highest paid US athletes:

460,000 salary last year
16,500,000 endorsements and appearance fees for a total of
16,960,000

Cat

Quoted message said:

IIRC, he makes about 15 million per year but I don't know if that is only
from endorsments
or if it includes all souces.

According to an article I recently read, 2003 he made $16m total.
My hope is that his drive is deep enough that he'd be willing to sacrifice a
few mil to keep racing, if that's what he chooses to do. But once 6 tours are
history (if that happens)....who knows? Giro? Classics?
Wes

"Cat Dailey" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"Brian Laffatme" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"Carl Sundquist" <[email hidden]> wrote in message

news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I don't see Armstrong being that altruistic. Just as he has enough

money

Quoted message said:

to

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

take a cut in pay, he also has enough money to retire from competition

and

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

change directions in his career. He has realized a certain value for

his

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

services as a professional bicycle racer and I don't foresee him

continuing

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

to race if his competitive level remains in his current range but
compensation offers drop significantly.

That is erroneous. He makes the bulk of his money from endorsements,
not salary and my very well placed sources tell me that Kristin is
going to get half of it.

toodles,

Brian Lafferty

From Sports Illustrated article on 50 highest paid US athletes:

460,000 salary last year
16,500,000 endorsements and appearance fees for a total of
16,960,000

Cat

Well I know the salary stated there is wrong, he was making $2mil after
winning his 3rd TDF. Heck Roberto Heras was making $750K a year riding for
USPS
Dave

I thought that Lance was already doing that. In fact I read a couple of
years ago that the French were trying to tax him on the prize money. And
his representative said that he shouldn't be taxed because he had given it
up. It was a big deal at the time because none of the other tour winners
was being hassled about their winnings when they did the same thing.

"Dave H" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

When Indurain was winning all his tours, after the 3rd, he
would give all TDF money to the team to split because he had a good bonus
from Banesto for winning the TDF

Dave

On Sun, 06 Jun 2004 03:41:00 GMT, "jquinn1" <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

I thought that Lance was already doing that. In fact I read a couple of
years ago that the French were trying to tax him on the prize money. And
his representative said that he shouldn't be taxed because he had given it
up. It was a big deal at the time because none of the other tour winners
was being hassled about their winnings when they did the same thing.

That is because the Frogs suck.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

jquinn1 said:

I thought that Lance was already doing that. In fact I read a couple of
years ago that the French were trying to tax him on the prize money. And
his representative said that he shouldn't be taxed because he had given it
up. It was a big deal at the time because none of the other tour winners
was being hassled about their winnings when they did the same thing.

Briefly, and as non technically as possible, the tax situation is this:

Several years ago it was determined by the taxing authorities in several
countries that certain types of taxpayers, professional athletes included,
and those peripherally engaged in the business of ``sport'' (soigneurs,
directeurs sportives etc) could not be trusted to declare their World
Income (Income from anywhere at all) on their Income Tax Returns.

[Remember the arrest of the Soigneurs at the Grenoble Six-Day a few years
back?? The main criminal charges there were Tax Evasion.]

So the imposition of a ''Withholding Tax'' was mandated by most countries
which puts the onus on the Payer to deduct a stipulated percentage of
payments made to persons (real or legal. ie corporations) for certain
types of actvity (Payment of Prize Money being one).

Upon filing an Income Tax Return, the Payee (the PrizeWinner) deducts the
WithHolding Tax made by the Payer from whatever tax is payable.

If the Payee is not resident in the jurisdiction of the Payer, a claim for
Foreign Taxes Paid can be made made by the Payee when submitting the Annual
Income Tax Return to the Taxing Authorities of whichever Country the Payee
is Legally required to pay taxes in.

And here the waters become very murky indeed.

Firstly, if we limit this discussion to athletes, any athlete with half a
brain sets up residence in Monaco, San Marino or Andorra, which are
nominally independent jurisdictions although their independence rests on
the goodwill of their host country. (France, Italy and Spain
respectively).

The aforementioned ``states'' and other similar entities around the world
do not impose taxes upon their residents.

Secondly, all civilized (sic) countries have entered into what are known
as Reciprocal Joint Tax Conventions with each other. The raison d'etre for
these Conventions is the recognition that a hardship exists where several
Taxing Jurisdictions might, but for the existance of the Conventions be
able to severally tax the same income.

So the ``Conventions'' came into being and one of the main benefits being
that if a Taxpayer (The Payee or Athlete) did not reside in a particular
Jurisdiction for in excess of 184 days in any particular Calendar Year
that Jurisdiction would forgo its right to levy taxes on the income of
such a Taxpayer.

So if you have followed along thus far, you will see that say, an
Australian who races in Europe might be subject only to French (Or Italian
or Wherever) Income taxes if he resided in France during the Racing Season
and Australia, under the Reciprocal Joint Tax Convention would cede its
right to tax one of its citizens to the other party to the Convention.

The other Murky area is the determination of the income upon which tax is
exigible. Any and all ``reasonable'' expenses are deductible from Gross
income under normal accounting standards. But the distribution of a major
prize (Tour de France winnings) is open to interpretation. Is it a gift? A
payment for services rendered? A distribution of Capital? And is it a
legitimate expenditure when computing income?

When prizes and salaries and endorsement revenues for athletes were
relatively small the Taxing Authorities paid little attention to the
matter but in latter years the tax being evaded is significant and I can
assure you that it is NOT just one athlete or one sport or in fact any one
country that is being put under the microscope, and in actual fact France
has been typically more relexed in its enforcement of its Taxing
Rights than most other countries.

And as icing on the cake, an athlete, even if not resident of Monaco, San
Marino or Andorra etc., can avoid taxation totally by ``Pleading the
Conventions`` if he resides in any particular jurisdiction for under 184
days in any particular year. This can be done by changing residences and
although it is quite possible to accomplish this using only two residences
it is more normal and much safer to use three and avoid having to argue
the fact.

What happens to the withholding taxes where an athlete can establish at
years end that they are not subject to tax at all is another matter. In
effect sometimes it can be recouped by filing an Income Tax Return for the
Jurisdiction where the WithHolding was made accompanied by certain other
documents.

--
le Vent a Dos
Davey Crockett
Six-Day site: http://members.rogers.com/sixday/sixday.html
Please address all replies to the list

"Dave H" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"Cat Dailey" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"Brian Laffatme" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"Carl Sundquist" <[email hidden]> wrote in message

news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

>
> I don't see Armstrong being that altruistic. Just as he has enough

money

Quoted message said:

to

Quoted message said:

> take a cut in pay, he also has enough money to retire from

competition

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

and

Quoted message said:

> change directions in his career. He has realized a certain value for

his

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> services as a professional bicycle racer and I don't foresee him

continuing

Quoted message said:

> to race if his competitive level remains in his current range but
> compensation offers drop significantly.

That is erroneous. He makes the bulk of his money from endorsements,
not salary and my very well placed sources tell me that Kristin is
going to get half of it.

toodles,

Brian Lafferty

From Sports Illustrated article on 50 highest paid US athletes:

460,000 salary last year
16,500,000 endorsements and appearance fees for a total of
16,960,000

Cat

Well I know the salary stated there is wrong, he was making $2mil after
winning his 3rd TDF. Heck Roberto Heras was making $750K a year riding for
USPS
Dave

According to what source? That is what I recall as well, but maybe it was a
contract valued at 2 million over 4 years? It is also possible he allowed
his salary to be reduced. Maybe he was making 2 million in salary then but
now he only needs a half million in exchange for more control over the team
(or any number of reasons). His most recent endorsement deals have made his
salary almost irrelavant or worse, his salary is a liability if it means
that the team is weaker by paying too much of its salary to Armstrong and
then can't afford the quality team memebers to keep the whole franchise
going. I can easily imagine a discussion with Lance in the last few years
(as soon as his endorsements deals overshadowed his team salary) advising
him to ensure the value of his personal brand (whatever you want to call it)
by assuring the team had enough quality riders to work for him in gaining
the next Tour win.

Use your imagination a bit.