Using racing bike for touring

Yvonne said:

Has anyone used a racing bike for touring (carrying 15kg/35lbs max)? If you have, what pannier
system did you use, and was it succesful or were there any problems? I've been looking at an entry
level racing bike for this purpose. It doesn't have braze-ons for panniers and have been advised
that a seatpost carrier would be unsuitable for this weight.

It can be done, but it's not a good idea. Carrying 35 pounds on a true racing bike is pushing it.
Touring bikes have longer seat stays for heel clearance, and will accomodate wider tires.

In general, a touring bike works better for fast recreational riding than a racing bike does for
touring. A "sport touring" bike might be a better choice for what you want.

Art Harris

Quoted post said:

Originally posted by Yvonne
Has anyone used a racing bike for touring (carrying 15kg/35lbs max)? If you have, what pannier
system did you use, and was it succesful or were there any problems? I've been looking at an entry
level racing bike for this purpose. It doesn't have braze-ons for panniers and have been advised
that a seatpost carrier would be unsuitable for this weight.

P-Clamps will attach a rack to your seat stays.
Blackburn makes some that have rubber coating to help protect the finish.
An addition of some front bag, like a handle bar bag would help put some of the weight up front.
A trailer might be a better solution.
The best solutions is a touring bicycle.
I went through this migration. Each one works, but the stability and ease of use of a touring bicycle is hard to beat.
I found the a true racing bicycle was not stable under load when going fast. I also had significant challenges loading the gear on the rack and have my heels not hit the panniers.
With the extra load, I found I wanted wider tires. I could only fit 25 mm tires, but I wanted 28 mm or more.

Although I agree that a touring bike is better for routine touring use, there is absolutely no need
one can't tour on a racing bike.

The additional 35lbs to a bike will have no effect on the frame. Statements like that are
speculative, and not proven by any fact. The heel clearance is an issue, but there are setups and
panniers that will accomadate that problem.

I recently went on a four day ride with six friends. We carried our own equipment, about 30lbs each,
and stayed in a motel each night. Riding was about 90 miles per day accross all sorts of roads.

There were three Trek 5500's, one Seven, one Colnago, and one Spectrum. Everyone carried there own
weight, and other than the occasional flat, no mechanical breakdowns.

The pannier of choice for those without eyelets was one by Old Man Mountain.
oldmanmountain.comsherpa rear details.htmOpen ↗

It mounts through the axle. It does not put additional stress on the frame.

I touring bike with front and rear eyelets may allow for easier use of fenders and racks, but a
racing bike is not necessarily a fragile item that is meant only to be raced.

I know people who take older Ti frames, that were state of the art when made, and turn them into
daily commute beater bikes.

In ten years, the Trek 5900's may be on e-bay for someone looking for a beater frame.

"Yvonne" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Has anyone used a racing bike for touring (carrying 15kg/35lbs max)? If you have, what pannier
system did you use, and was it succesful or were there any problems? I've been looking at an entry
level racing bike for this purpose. It doesn't have braze-ons for panniers and have been advised
that a seatpost carrier would be unsuitable for this weight.

I don't know about panniers on a light weight, but I've toured on my Cannondale R1000 light bike
pulling a BOB trailer. It can be done, but the R1000 geometry, gearing, and low weight makes it
hard. It was very squirrelly especially when standing. Trying to stand up on steeper grades
(necessary with higher gearing) made the whole works wobble dangerously, and high speed descents
were not safe especially on curves. Maybe panniers work better on a lightweight bike. I finally
broke down and bought a real touring bike which handles the BOB and panniers better. My preference
on long extended tours are the latter. Low rider front panniers add a lot of stability but also add
a lot of wind resistance.

Yvonne said:

Has anyone used a racing bike for touring (carrying 15kg/35lbs max)? If you have, what pannier
system did you use, and was it succesful or were there any problems? I've been looking at an entry
level racing bike for this purpose. It doesn't have braze-ons for panniers and have been advised
that a seatpost carrier would be unsuitable for this weight.

The most common mechanical failure with bikes overloaded for touring is spoke breakage in the rear
wheel. For a load like this, I'd recommend a pair of low-rider _front_ panniers. Most front wheels
are way overbuilt compared with rears, and it is very unusual to have any problems in front.

This also will provide more even weight distribution, and avoid issues of heel clearance with the
rear panniers.

There are a number of front racks/panniers that don't require braze ons. It's also sometimes
feasible to temporarily install a touring fork on a racing bike for this purpose.

You might also use a seatpost rack for light/bulky stuff like a sleeping bag.

Sheldon "Front Loading" Brown +-----------------------------------------------------------+
| Oh, my ways are strange ways and new ways and old ways, | And deep ways and steep ways and high
| ways and low, | I'm at home and at ease on a track that I know not, | And restless and lost on a
| road that I know. | --Henry Lawson, Australian poet. |
+-----------------------------------------------------------+ Harris Cyclery, West Newton,
Massachusetts Phone 617-244-9772 FAX 617-244-1041 harriscyclery.comharriscyclery.comOpen ↗ Hard-to-find parts
shipped Worldwide captainbike.comcaptainbike.comOpen ↗ sheldonbrown.comsheldonbrown.comOpen ↗

MGS' may have said:

In ten years, the Trek 5900's may be on e-bay for someone looking for a beater frame.

If they're still in one piece. While that particular frame might be, there are plenty of current
racing frames that will probably have developed failures well before then. Bleeding-edge frames are
no longer built for long-term durability...and it's particularly hard to say what any given carbon
fiber frame's longevity will be since there are so many variables involved. I would be amazed if the
resins reliably and consistently remained stable in actual usage environments for ten years; some
certainly will, but I have no doubt that many will not.

On the other hand, as you point out, most all things come cheaply to those willing to wait.

--
My email address is antispammed; pull WEEDS if replying via e-mail. Yes, I have a killfile. If I
don't respond to something, it's also possible that I'm busy. Words processed in a facility that
contains nuts.

Yvonne said:

Has anyone used a racing bike for touring (carrying 15kg/35lbs max)? If you have, what pannier
system did you use, and was it succesful or were there any problems? I've been looking at an entry
level racing bike for this purpose. It doesn't have braze-ons for panniers and have been advised
that a seatpost carrier would be unsuitable for this weight.

My experience touring with a lightweight bike was that it wanted to oscillate unless I kept my
weight on it. Less load made it more stable, but it wasn't as fun as a rock solid bike. No harm
done, but nothing would beat the heavier construction and conveniences of a real touring bike (e.g.
braze-ons front and back, relaxed geometry, better gearing and so on).

"Commuter Cyclist" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:pan.2003.11.23.19.28.37.138989@cyclist...

Quoted message said:

Yvonne said:

Has anyone used a racing bike for touring (carrying 15kg/35lbs max)? If you have, what pannier
system did you use, and was it succesful or were there any problems? I've been looking at an
entry level racing bike for this purpose. It doesn't have braze-ons for panniers and have been
advised that a seatpost carrier would be unsuitable for this weight.

My experience touring with a lightweight bike was that it wanted to oscillate unless I kept my
weight on it. Less load made it more stable, but it wasn't as fun as a rock solid bike. No harm
done, but nothing would beat the heavier construction and conveniences of a real touring bike
(e.g. braze-ons front and back, relaxed geometry, better gearing and so on).

This guy www-math.science.unitn.itGalleOpen ↗
ry/103-0339_IMG.JPG (large file) would disagree with you. Another photo shows two bikes with this
setup paloaltobicycles.comf27.htmlOpen ↗ (btw, if I were to be gay, I'd be on that
Bill Roberson guy ... ain't he pretty?!) FWIW, check out his pack list
www-math.science.unitn.itPacking List.htmlOpen ↗, all of which goes into that
transverse saddle bag, the type you can find here
rivendellbicycles.combaggage racksOpen ↗

Saddlebag size can be an issue with smaller frames but you can also find supports at the last
link above.

I used to do a fair amount of fully loaded, unsupported, primitive camping touring on full-fledged
touring bikes. I haven't toured in quite a while but, when I get around to it again, I'm going to
take my road bike and forget about sleeping on hard, cold ground after a long day in the saddle
lugging around all that camping gear.

Of course you might want to rethink if your road bike is a stupid-light and/or stupid-short racer.
Mine is neither (but technically a racer nonetheless).

Robin Hubert

MGS said:

Although I agree that a touring bike is better for routine touring use, there is absolutely no
need one can't tour on a racing bike.

You can probably tour on a Razor scooter, too. The differences are ones of degree. With a racing
bike, nobody is suggesting that you will have a frame failure. Here are some common issues using a
racing bike for touring:

-spoke breakage with lighter weight wheels -heel clearance with panniers -no clearance for fatter
tires or fenders -less stability with a heavy load -high-speed shimmy with a heavy load -less
comfortable position for long distance riding -shorter wheelbase means a harsher ride

We see a lot of cross-country tourists at our shop. Since we are in Illinois, we typically see them
somewhere in the middle of the trip. So, we get to see a lot of what works and what doesn't. We sell
a lot of saddles (after a rider finds that the saddle that was comfortable on 30 mile local rides
doesn't necessarily work for 80 miles a day for several weeks).

We also sell a lot of replacement tires. By the time we see folks, they don't care what the tire
weighs as long as it is durable and fairly flat-resistant. Fatter is better since they generally
last longer. We also do a lot of wheel repair and rebuilding.

Todd Kuzma Heron Bicycles Tullio's Big Dog Cyclery LaSalle, Il 815-223-1776
heronbicycles.comheronbicycles.comOpen ↗ tullios.comtullios.comOpen ↗

Yvonne said:

Has anyone used a racing bike for touring (carrying 15kg/35lbs max)? If you have, what pannier
system did you use, and was it succesful or were there any problems? I've been looking at an entry
level racing bike for this purpose. It doesn't have braze-ons for panniers and have been advised
that a seatpost carrier would be unsuitable for this weight.

There is no problem. I have used two different racing bikes for touring, with no trouble from the
bike. You are not carrying that much weight, so could use just rear panniers with maybe a front
handlebar bag. That's what I use.

I secure the rear rack to the frame with "P-clamps" from a hardware store. The "P" is their shape,
and the rack mounts attach to the leg. They even come with rubber padding to protect the frame. BTW,
they are meant to hold cable, so look in the electrical section.

You need to be careful to get the panniers back far enough to avoid heel contact, but that can be
done. My stays are quite short and it works well for me.

You will also want to get triple chainrings. The extra weight, even 35lbs, makes climbing
much harder.

--

David L. Johnson

__o | "What am I on? I'm on my bike, six hours a day, busting my ass. _`\(,_ | What are you on?"
--Lance Armstrong (_)/ (_) |

I used a racing bike to tour with, once. I only carried about twenty five pounds (It was just an
overnighter), on standard rear and front lowriders, no HB. But it still handled terribly.

The geometry on a racing frame is all wrong for carrying cargo. It's designed for nimbleness, not
stability, which is what you need if you are going to be loading it down.

This doesn't mean you can';t tour with your racer, however. Just invest in an axle mount trailer,
like the B.o.B. Yak or similar. This takes the weight of the frame. You'll still notice a handling
difference, but it won't be insurmountable.

"May you have the wind at your back. And a really low gear for the hills!"

Chris Zacho ~ "Your Friendly Neighborhood Wheelman"

Chris'Z Corner geocities.comczcornerOpen ↗

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Has anyone used a racing bike for touring (carrying 15kg/35lbs max)? If you have, what pannier
system did you use, and was it succesful or were there any problems? I've been looking at an
entry level racing bike for this purpose. It doesn't have braze-ons for panniers and have been
advised that a seatpost carrier would be unsuitable for this weight.

If you haven't bought it yet and like many of us you don't race why buy a racing bike? Plenty of
great bikes out there that fill your bill like Heron, Waterford, whatever Rivendell is selling now
in that vein (they have a couple and I don't know what's available). Phil Brown

(Yvonne) said:

Has anyone used a racing bike for touring (carrying 15kg/35lbs max)? If you have, what pannier
system did you use, and was it succesful or were there any problems?

Lots of people have toured all over the world on racing bikes- among others bikes not ideally suited
for the task. You can get a clamp-on pannier rack for the front fork or the rear triangle (I'd go
with the former, actually) or you can use a saddlebag like a Carradice or a Baggins. Saddlebags are
my preferred mode.

www.carradice.co.uk www.wallbike.com www.sheldonbrown.com www.rivendellbicycles.com

Quoted message said:

I've been looking at an entry level racing bike for this purpose. It doesn't have braze-ons for
panniers and have been advised that a seatpost carrier would be unsuitable for this weight.

If you're *buying* a bike, then buy one that will be suited to the intended purpose. There are
several touring bike options on the market, although the options are limited compared to race bikes.
At the entry level range, you can't do better IMHO than the Bruce Gordon BLT for a true touring
bike. Another option would be a Romulus or Atlantis from Rivendell.

www.bgcycles.com www.rivendellbicycles.com

In article said:

Has anyone used a racing bike for touring (carrying 15kg/35lbs max)? If you have, what pannier
system did you use, and was it succesful or were there any problems? I've been looking at an entry
level racing bike for this purpose. It doesn't have braze-ons for panniers and have been advised
that a seatpost carrier would be unsuitable for this weight.

I admire your minimalist thinking... In fact, I had met such a person who did this in one of our
club tours 4 years ago. He used an Air Friday and was carrying around 30-40lbs of load.

While we carried 4 panniers on our loaded bikes, he carried just 2 bags. One big waterproof bag
bungeed on his rear rack and 1 handle bar bag with lots of pockets mounted on his drop bar. In both
bags, he has almost everything we carried in 4 panniers! A tent made by Henry Shires (Virga and
super light), 2 titanium pots with a stove that fits in it, clothing, sleeping bag and food plus
enough space for some tools.

His experience had been to put most of the load at the rear and then some at the front to achieve
acceptable stability. He had 30lbs rear and 10lbs front, but he had a rear rack attached to his Air
Friday. In your case, you can probably get a monster saddle bag to do the same.

Ofcourse, I am more biased towards using a touring bike for touring purposes. To be honest, I had
toured once with a racing bike before on an organized sagged tour. I loved the handling of a race
bike if all it is carrying is just yourself. The nimbleness and the finese feeling on the hills,
flats and downhills are far different than the slow, stable and cadillac type riding of touring
bikes. I had tried doing something similar to the guy with an Air Friday, but I never developed a
real liking to strapping stuff on my race bike. I never felt safe and secure like I do with my
touring bike.

Hope this helps.

Yvonne who? said:

Has anyone used a racing bike for touring (carrying 15kg/35lbs max)? If you have, what pannier
system did you use, and was it successful or were there any problems?

Quoted message said:

I've been looking at an entry level racing bike for this purpose. It doesn't have braze-ons for
panniers and have been advised that a seatpost carrier would be unsuitable for this weight.

Try looking at the pix at:

tinyurl.comadlsOpen ↗

These are all "racing" bicycles, the only kind I would consider for my touring. Early pictures are
Cinelli and Masi bicycles and some of the later are Ritchey and Johnson frames.

Jobst Brandt [email hidden]

[email hidden] (Yvonne) wrote in message
news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

Has anyone used a racing bike for touring (carrying 15kg/35lbs max)? If you have, what pannier
system did you use, and was it succesful or were there any problems?

I toured quite a bit in Germany on a 1986 Cannondale Criterium racer. I was 20-22 years old and
didn't know any better. I also had a great time. I carried maybe 20 pounds divided between a large
handlebar bag and a large seat wedge, sleeping and eating in human settlements instead of cowboy
style. Today I prefer to carry more and stay outside, and I wouldn't recommend a racing bike. These
packing techniques are worth studying, though: milly.orgrambouilletOpen ↗

(Yvonne) said:

Has anyone used a racing bike for touring (carrying 15kg/35lbs max)? If you have, what pannier
system did you use, and was it succesful or were there any problems? I've been looking at an entry
level racing bike for this purpose. It doesn't have braze-ons for panniers and have been advised
that a seatpost carrier would be unsuitable for this weight.

I've used racing bikes for touring using a trailer. The particular trailer I actually used was a
thing called a 'bike hod' which I cannot recommend since its center of gravity was too high and it
had an unnerving propensity for overturning on fast downhill bends. I plan to buy myself a BOB Yak
or similar one-wheel trailer which I believe will be a better solution.

However, I'm completely sold on the principle of using a trailer. The benefits include at the end of
the day having an uncluttered bike from which you can simply unhook the trailer and go off for a
blast; having relatively little effect on the handling and feel of the bike; and, when manhandling
it for example when getting on and off trains, having two easy loads instead of one awkward and
unmanageable one.

--
[email hidden] (Simon Brooke) jasmine.org.uk~simonOpen ↗

;; I'd rather live in sybar-space

Sheldon Brown said:

The most common mechanical failure with bikes overloaded for touring is spoke breakage in the rear
wheel. For a load like this, I'd recommend a pair of low-rider _front_ panniers. Most front wheels
are way overbuilt compared with rears, and it is very unusual to have any problems in front.

This also will provide more even weight distribution, and avoid issues of heel clearance with the
rear panniers.

For about 5 years now I've been using a front low rider rack only. It works really well for me. I
see almost no people doing it around Chicago. People think balance is poor. Of course it is harder
to ride with no hands, especially with only 1 pannier, which is what I do most of the time, but my
experience is that the front end has more inertia and in fact the front tire is more likely to grab
the pavement. Spoke breakage in the rear wheel is reduced.

I think hitting heels on a pannier is only an issue if you use the largest panniers. I have size 13
(Euro 48/49) feet and never came close to hitting medium sized MEC panniers on cyclocross frames.
Not even close.

These days road racing bikes often do not have any eyelets, making it difficult to attach anything
to the frame. Cyclocross framesets are much more suitable to setting up with racks.

Quoted message said:

It's also sometimes feasible to temporarily install a touring fork on a racing bike for this
purpose.

Yeah, or even a cyclocross fork, which are pretty easy to find. This is a much better solution, then
you can put the other rack on the back for lighter weight stuff.

Bob VonMoss

Bike-Chicago Email List home.mindspring.combikechicago.htmlOpen ↗

Quoted message said:

You might also use a seatpost rack for light/bulky stuff like a sleeping bag.

Sheldon "Front Loading" Brown

Commuter Cyclist said:

real touring bike ... relaxed geometry, better gearing and so on).

These days the geometry on most of the remaining touring frames is not that relaxed. For example,
most touring bikes have a head angle around 72-73, which is about the same for the regular road
racing frames. Usually the head tube is 1-2 cm less than comparable frames and the chain stays are
longer. Even the seat tube angles are about the same. Of course TT bikes have very aggressive
geometry compared to a touring frame.

Cannondale touring frame geometry: cannondale.comgeo 21.htmlOpen ↗

size XL head tube angle: 72.5 seat tube angle: 73 top tube length: 22.5" seat tube to top: 23" fork
rake: 5.3cm

Cannondale road bike ridden by team cannondale.comgeo 14.htmlOpen ↗ size 58cm head
tube angle: 73.5 seat tube angle: 73 top tube length: 22.5" seat tube to top: 23" fork rake: 4.5 cm

differences: touring frame head angle is 1.0 degree more slack and forks have 8mm of more fork rake.