Using hills for VO2 max adaptations

If you can do a series of 5-6 of those climbs with a work:recovery ratio of 1:1 or less, then I'd be surprised if you were working above L5. Is it possible that your FT is underestimated?

There is no clean cut between the zones, so don't worry. If you can push a power level for, lets say, more than 2 minutes, without slowing down, then you are probably working in the right zone.

frenchyge said:

If you can do a series of 5-6 of those climbs with a work:recovery ratio of 1:1 or less, then I'd be surprised if you were working above L5. Is it possible that your FT is underestimated?

In response to your first comment, the recovery time is 1:1 or more in some cases. What I'm doing is a ride/session that incorporates ~25 minutes @ Vo2 max on different hills with varying gradients, and in between depending on the time between climbs, after a recovery period, I'll move into tempo zone, or if theres a >15 minute stretch, some LT work. I know this isn't conventional interval work with set recovery, but I was *hoping* it would be beneficial, again any comments appreciated.
The second comment with regard to FT is interesting. I use the club's 10 mile TT course for 2x20's, and when I did these last, my AP was ~220, with my FT being ~230(Cycling Peaks), but, when I tried them on the turbo trainer 3 days later, I could not hold 220w for longer than 10 minutes. I have noticed this subject on another thread, and so my plan is to drop 20-30 watts in order to complete either two or three 20 minute intervals.
I really need to concentrate on the LT work at the moment (twice a week) as I feel there is room for a lot of improvement at that level, which is why I want to use road rides to keep the VO2 max maintained at more of a secondary level.

AndROOb said:

In response to your first comment, the recovery time is 1:1 or more in some cases. What I'm doing is a ride/session that incorporates ~25 minutes @ Vo2 max on different hills with varying gradients, and in between depending on the time between climbs, after a recovery period, I'll move into tempo zone, or if theres a >15 minute stretch, some LT work. I know this isn't conventional interval work with set recovery, but I was *hoping* it would be beneficial, again any comments appreciated.
The second comment with regard to FT is interesting. I use the club's 10 mile TT course for 2x20's, and when I did these last, my AP was ~220, with my FT being ~230(Cycling Peaks), but, when I tried them on the turbo trainer 3 days later, I could not hold 220w for longer than 10 minutes. I have noticed this subject on another thread, and so my plan is to drop 20-30 watts in order to complete either two or three 20 minute intervals.
I really need to concentrate on the LT work at the moment (twice a week) as I feel there is room for a lot of improvement at that level, which is why I want to use road rides to keep the VO2 max maintained at more of a secondary level.

It's really pretty simple...

If you're doing a set of intervals to target VO2, do them as hard as you can and still complete the set (maintaining the same intensity to the end). Whatever that intensity is, it's right.

What you describe is certainly beneficial, but may be a little harder to quantify the amount of time your spending at VO2max. The 'value' in doing the intervals as a set is that in each succesive interval you get to VO2max quicker, thus increasing the time spent at the target intensity. This is more important the shorter the interval...i.e. doing 3 mins on/3mins off would be 'better' than 3 mins on/10 mins off in terms of getting time at VO2max. Whereas doing 6 mins on/6mins off is probably not a whole lot different than doing 6mins on/10 mins off.

Of course, if you lead into your VO2 interval with high tempo or threshold, you'll likely still get to VO2max there pretty quick. I know a lot of people that do intervals just like you describe to simulate race situations (and the opposite, a VO2 interval followed immediately by a tempo or threshold session).

Scott

AndROOb said:

What I'm doing is a ride/session that incorporates ~25 minutes @ Vo2 max on different hills with varying gradients, and in between depending on the time between climbs, after a recovery period, I'll move into tempo zone, or if theres a >15 minute stretch, some LT work. I know this isn't conventional interval work with set recovery, but I was *hoping* it would be beneficial

I see no problem whatsoever with this approach to VO2MAX intervals. So long as you exceed the minimum duration and minimum power, I think you will get the full adaptation benefit of the interval. How difficult it is going to be to do multiple VO2MAX intervals in one ride is going to be a function of the cumulative duration and NP at that point in the ride. For example, I put VO2MAX intervals throughout my variable power training rides and the ones after 2+ hours are much more difficult than those early in the ride. It's easy to see why when I look at my cumulative NP at that point. If my NP is greater than ~85%FT, the interval is going to be difficult because I am close to my max power for the total duration.

RapDaddyo said:

For example, I put VO2MAX intervals throughout my variable power training rides and the ones after 2+ hours are much more difficult than those early in the ride. It's easy to see why when I look at my cumulative NP at that point. If my NP is greater than ~85%FT, the interval is going to be difficult because I am close to my max power for the total duration.

Wow, do I know that feeling! My last climb, which is round about the 2 hour mark is a 5 minute climb on an 18% gradient. This is hard going to say the least.
I can do the climb in under 5 minutes which sends me completely anaerobic :eek: , but I also try to hold a steady power in the VO2max range, which also gives me a slightly longer interval. When this climb is completed, I feel wonderfully weary, but also happy in the knowledge that the hardest part is over :o .

AndROOb said:

Wow, do I know that feeling! My last climb, which is round about the 2 hour mark is a 5 minute climb on an 18% gradient. This is hard going to say the least.
I can do the climb in under 5 minutes which sends me completely anaerobic :eek: , but I also try to hold a steady power in the VO2max range, which also gives me a slightly longer interval. When this climb is completed, I feel wonderfully weary, but also happy in the knowledge that the hardest part is over :o .

I wish I had that climb on my route.🙂 Sounds like a great tester. My Mt. Everest is a 4.5 mile 5-6% climb that comes at ~2 hrs on a 3.5 hr ride. I ride it as an L4, but as I get closer to race season I may ride it as two VO2MAX intervals with a little recovery (even though it's a bit difficult to recover on a climb).

RapDaddyo said:

I wish I had that climb on my route.🙂 Sounds like a great tester. My Mt. Everest is a 4.5 mile 5-6% climb that comes at ~2 hrs on a 3.5 hr ride. I ride it as an L4, but as I get closer to race season I may ride it as two VO2MAX intervals with a little recovery (even though it's a bit difficult to recover on a climb).

I suppose the grass is always greener.......
All my climbs are short <1mile, and varying gradients. I would have to travel over to Ric's part of the country, or way up north for a good long climb.
🙄 🙄 🙄 ...I dream of long climbs............🙄 🙄 🙄

AndROOb said:

I suppose the grass is always greener.......
All my climbs are short <1mile, and varying gradients. I would have to travel over to Ric's part of the country, or way up north for a good long climb.
🙄 🙄 🙄 ...I dream of long climbs............🙄 🙄 🙄

Plenty of short climbs here tho! the one to my house is ~5-mins and 16% (which is the easy way). the hardest way i've yet to manage (~ 25+% and cobbled). Still, we also have some long climbs round here (up to 8 km and up to 10%).

I do lots of my MAP (VO2max) intervals on the hills, but i also do a fair few on the trainer (turbo) as well

ric