Using Average Power during intervals

peterpen said:

Decided to break this into a new thread rather than drifting sugaken's...

Are there disadvantages to using average power during intervals?

I've been switching my PT display to show avg watts during intervals ranging from 1' to 15' and find it very useful for keeping power steady, making sure I don't fade at the end of each work interval, and hitting my target power. Especially for shorter intervals (1 - 2'😉 I would sometimes surge around chasing my target watts, with the total work for each interval being more variable.

Just curious what others think?

I tried the other day to ride with avg pwr only, I didn't like it very much. I think I am too much addicted to my real time actual power figures at the moment :o

But that being said, I wouldn't even look at my display while doing L6 intervals (1 - 2'😉 , just perceived effort and that's all.

I've set the display to average power every 5 seconds. Great for intervals. It would be perhaps useful if the PT head had a pace arrow to tell you if you were below or above the average.

I admit to looking as my goals are to extend time over 500 watts so I'm doing more of a power-based interval (hold the watts as opposed to hold the time).

I got owned by Cote Gilmour 😉

I typically switch to avg power, but on longer intervals as opposed to shorter. I'll switch to avg power after ~2-3 minutes, when enough time has elapsed to provide some decent buffering of the average. After that point, any change in AP is pretty slow and I can easily manage it within 1 watt of target.

For shorter intervals I stick with my usual 3sec averaged 'instantaneous power' display. My problem is that once the AP starts to decline, I tend to overreact in an effort to turn it back the other way, which makes my power more variable than just trying to ride through the precession based on feel.

I don't think it is realistic because the question comes down to how hard you need to ride to bring back up your AP and for how long??? I have been reading Andy's book and I think he recommends using AP for doing 15sec on/off intervals. Obviously, riding at 150% of your FT for 15sec can seriously change your AP.

peterpen said:

Decided to break this into a new thread rather than drifting sugaken's...

Are there disadvantages to using average power during intervals?

I've been switching my PT display to show avg watts during intervals ranging from 1' to 15' and find it very useful for keeping power steady, making sure I don't fade at the end of each work interval, and hitting my target power. Especially for shorter intervals (1 - 2'😉 I would sometimes surge around chasing my target watts, with the total work for each interval being more variable.

Just curious what others think?

I never use AP for managing power, in part because I'm never going to manage power based on AP in a race, even a TT. I will have pacing targets, but they will never be based on AP. But, I have a question about rolling AP. If you had your druthers, what options would you like to have for rolling average power?

I use average power for all my intervals from 5 mins and longer when I am attempting to produce a constant power for the duration. After a couple of minutes the fluctuation in power decreases to where I can nail my target power and attempt to hold it. As soon as it drifts up or down by 1 watt I (attempt) to make the small adjustment to bring it back and sometimes switch to my rolling average power to ensure I maintain a controlled reaction.
I find this method can really motivate me to complete the interval as its as if I'm racing against the powertap.
I often find that the powertap reports an average power that is 1 watt less than that reported by CP after download. I suppose this could be due to different rounding algorithms.

BlueJersey said:

I don't think it is realistic because the question comes down to how hard you need to ride to bring back up your AP and for how long??? ...

Not sure I understand this - I don't have to 'bring' the avg power back up to anything since I start a new interval for each work portion and another for each rest. I'm using a PT and keep it in interval mode, so my average only applies to the current interval.

@RDO As for not using it in training because I'm not going to use it in a race 😕 I do lots of stuff in training that isn't *exactly* what I do in a race.

peterpen said:

RDO As for not using it in training because I'm not going to use it in a race 😕 I do lots of stuff in training that isn't *exactly* what I do in a race.

Well, let me explain. I'm headed toward a way of riding both training rides and races against a fairly precise power-based pacing plan. In my approach, I am always managing current power against a target, so I have integrated real-time power modulation into all of my rides. I have found that riding at a target power level on the road is a challenge of its own in light of grade and wind changes. Now, let me be clear. I'm talking about average power for a ride or an interval. Rolling average power is a completely different question, which is why I'm interested in which rolling average durations are of interest to those who ride with power.

Originally Posted by BlueJersey
I don't think it is realistic because the question comes down to how hard you need to ride to bring back up your AP and for how long??? ...

peterpen said:

Not sure I understand this - I don't have to 'bring' the avg power back up to anything since I start a new interval for each work portion and another for each rest. I'm using a PT and keep it in interval mode, so my average only applies to the current interval.

I think what he was saying... If the average power during your interval is showing that you're say, 10 watts under your target you might then try to increase your power to bring the average back up to your target, but if you're only seeing the average power display you may not know how much to increase your power so that it brings the current average closer to your target.

Normally you wouldn't want to increase your power too much, e.g. 50 watts, to try and raise the average because that much of an increase may disrupt your ability to get near your target for the whole interval, and if you're only seeing average power you may not realize you've have increased increase your current power more than you should have.

To the original question, I leave it on current power and HR. I look at the average power and cadence occasionally during the interval to make sure I'm still near the target(s). And if I'm not near the target, I think about why that is.

BlueJersey said:

I have been reading Andy's book and I think he recommends using AP for doing 15sec on/off intervals.

I guess what's in the book could be interpreted that way, but the intended point is that, due to "physiological inertia", your body can't really tell when power is flucuating very rapidly.* Thus, by far the most important factor determining the strain resulting from 15 s on/off intervals is the average power output. Things change quite quickly, however, as the work and esp. the rest interval are lengthened.

*By this I mean that practically all whole-body and muscular physiological, metabolic, and neurohormonal responses will be very similar to those resulting from continuous exercise at the same average power. However, fiber type recruitment patterns will be affected, which in the extreme can have some influence.

RapDaddyo said:

I have a question about rolling AP. If you had your druthers, what options would you like to have for rolling average power?

No takers?