USAC blows it again

Well, after our performance in the junior races, marathon and relay, this might be a blessing. At
least now we can say' Coulda Shoulda Woulda'.

Steve Scarich

Man, where to begin....

The UCI set up a system for MTB that is identical to the road system where everything is done
through the trade teams. However, MTB is different in that not everyone races for a trade team.

The rules state that any rider ranked in the top 100 (that would be as of December of the previous
year) or on a trade team needs to have certain medical testing done as prescribed in the UCI rules
(www.uci.ch and check the health section). Adam was 96th and Todd was on a trade team so both needed
to have the first testing done in April (if I recall correctly, could be March).

Neither athlete had that testing done. Blame the trade team, but ultimately the fault lies with
the athletes.

UCI is clear in that it is the trade team's responsibility along with the individual's
responsibility to comply with the rules. Do not lay this at the feet of USAC. In this instance you
do not have a clue.

If the US had a national team, it would be different story and I can guarantee you that they would
have had the testing done.

The idea of a long team is kinda silly.

Todd and Adam did not pay their own way to Worlds.

"TritonRider" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

paulweiss.bzindex.htmOpen ↗

It sucks to see good people like Wells and Craig get screwed because USAC couldn't pick a long
team in the spring and get them the medicals they

needed.

Quoted message said:

They always seem to do everything at the last minute, pretty much based

on

Quoted message said:

politics. I wonder if Adam and Todd paid their own way to Worlds. If they

did

yet

Quoted message said:

again. Bill C

Quoted message said:

From: "Sam" [email hidden]

Quoted message said:

Neither athlete had that testing done. Blame the trade team, but ultimately the fault lies with the
athletes.

UCI is clear in that it is the trade team's responsibility along with the individual's
responsibility to comply with the rules. Do not lay this at the feet of USAC. In this instance you
do not have a clue.

No I am not very familiar with the selection procedures, but with the tight budgets etc. you'd
think the USAC would check to make sure that the athletes they were sending were at least eligible.
I know I sure as hell would before spending the money. Maybe it's having been military for a long
time, but before you go anywhere for anything there is a checklist of things needed before you go.
Medical, shots, pasport, other documents as needed etc. I think failing to do this before you put
them on a plane is pretty weak. Bill C

TritonRider said:

Maybe it's having been military for a long time, but before you go anywhere for anything there is
a checklist of things needed before you go.

An exit strategy? The support of the UN? Oh wait, they're irrelevant. Okay, how about a plan
and a clue?

Quoted message said:

I think failing to do this before you put them on a plane is pretty weak.

Well, I think I'd agree with that.

"Robert Chung" <[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

TritonRider said:

Maybe it's having been military for a long time, but before you go anywhere for anything there
is a checklist of things needed before you go.

An exit strategy? The support of the UN? Oh wait, they're irrelevant. Okay, how about a plan
and a clue?

To be fair, military logistics and political leader decision making are two very
different things.

Robert Chung said:

TritonRider said:

Generaly the people on the ground that actually do the work are pretty competent.

Competent at fighting war, absolutely. Competent at fashioning peace? They aren't trained for
that. But maybe we can get some help from Old Europe, because the help we've been getting so far
from the coalition of the willing (e.g., Mongolia, Tonga, and the Dominican Republic) just *might*
not be enough.

Yeah right: "might."

Frat-boy will have to do the old "Thank you sir may I have another?" routine before the
upper-classmen from Old Europe lift a finger to pull his gonads out of the fire he started.

Watch for the definition of "success" and "Iraqi autonomy" to suddenly become very easy to meet in
the near future. Exit US, enter Taliban?

--
--
Lynn Wallace xmission.com~lawallOpen ↗ "I'm not proud. We really haven't done everything we
could to protect our customers. Our products just aren't engineered for security." --Microsoft VP in
charge of Windows OS Development, Brian Valentine.

"Robert Chung" <[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

TritonRider said:

Generaly the people on the ground that actually do the work are pretty competent.

Competent at fighting war, absolutely. Competent at fashioning peace? They aren't trained for
that. But maybe we can get some help from Old Europe, because the help we've been getting so far
from the coalition of the willing (e.g., Mongolia, Tonga, and the Dominican Republic) just *might*
not be enough.

For it's one, two three, what are we fighting for, Don't ask me, I don't give a damn, Next stops
looking for Saddam.

Five six seven, open them pearly gates........ Be the first one on your block to have your son
brought home in a box.

Apologies to Country Joe

I hope "Old Europe" lets Bush, Cheney, Condi, The Wolf and all the other neocons twist in the
wind a good long while........long enough for the "average" American to get a vague idea that
they were had.

Raptor said:

Frat-boy will have to do the old "Thank you sir may I have another?" routine before the
upper-classmen from Old Europe lift a finger to pull his gonads out of the fire he started.

Liberation is the left-most of the big French newspapers (there are leftier papers but they're not
as big, and there are bigger papers but they're not as lefty) and was pretty much dead set against
the war. That's why I was vaguely surprised that its editorial on the Bush "about-face" was so
pragmatic. It advised that France not let Iraq sink just to see Bush fail (no matter how tempting
that thought is to the French). It would be tough for the French to commit troops under American
command, though, unless there were major concessions in something else. See, this is what this
administration has gotten us into: we're waiting on terms from an irrelevant Old Europe. Well, at
least we got rid of all those WMDs in Iraq... uh, wait, I meant at least we ended the threat of
terrorism... uh, wait....um... hmmm... I meant, did we teach those North Koreans a lesson or
what?... ok, maybe that wasn't the best example, just give me a minute...

"B. Lafferty" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I hope "Old Europe" lets Bush, Cheney, Condi, The Wolf and all the other neocons twist in the
wind a good long while........long enough for the "average" American to get a vague idea that
they were had.

The "average" American doesn't read enough to figure it out.

Many of them (even some rbr posters) think that Saddam was behind 9/11 and a significant minority
even believe that WMD were used against US troops in the lastest war (even though the military will
tell otherwise). Many people have a tendency to believe what they want to, even if the facts say
something else.

"Kurgan Gringioni" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"B. Lafferty" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I hope "Old Europe" lets Bush, Cheney, Condi, The Wolf and all the other neocons twist in the
wind a good long while........long enough for the "average" American to get a vague idea that
they were had.

The "average" American doesn't read enough to figure it out.

I agree. That's how we got into the mess in the first place. When John Kerry says he was misled on
Iraq by Bush, I don't know whether to laugh or cry. If he had simply gone to the BBC or Guardian
sites every day, he might have figured it out.

Quoted message said:

Many of them (even some rbr posters) think that Saddam was behind 9/11 and

a

Quoted message said:

significant minority even believe that WMD were used against US troops in

the

Quoted message said:

lastest war (even though the military will tell otherwise). Many people

have

Quoted message said:

a tendency to believe what they want to, even if the facts say something else.

Sadly, the American people usually wake up late, when the body count goes up and the economy tanks.
But many unemployed will still vote Bush based on ignorance and fear. The Republican party is very
good at using fear to drive wedges between segments of the electorate.

I'm toying with the idea of working for Bush's re-election so that things will get so bad there
might be a chance for some real change (as in voter realignments). Then again, emigration is a
possibility. My wife has had teaching offers in Western Europe in the past........the last was an
inquiry from a veterinary program in the Netherlands. Maybe something will open up in Belgium. :-)

"B. Lafferty" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I'm toying with the idea of working for Bush's re-election so that things will get so bad there
might be a chance for some real change (as in voter realignments). Then again, emigration is a
possibility. My wife has had teaching offers in Western Europe in the past........the last was an

inquiry

Quoted message said:

from a veterinary program in the Netherlands. Maybe something will open

up

Quoted message said:

in Belgium. :-)

Nah it's a closed shop here, unless she's a *real* pro and handy with the pigeons. Maybe you could
set yourselves up as a private soigneur/veterinarian team, all totally above board of course.

Jeff

B. Lafferty said:

"Kurgan Gringioni" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"B. Lafferty" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I hope "Old Europe" lets Bush, Cheney, Condi, The Wolf and all the other neocons twist in the
wind a good long while........long enough for the "average" American to get a vague idea that
they were had.

The "average" American doesn't read enough to figure it out.

This, finally, doesn't matter. The issue has boiled down to something that fits easily in a sound
bite, and can't be hand-waved away: Victory declared, but Americans are still dying amid terrorist
and guerilla attacks.

Quoted message said:

I agree. That's how we got into the mess in the first place. When John Kerry says he was misled on
Iraq by Bush, I don't know whether to laugh or cry. If he had simply gone to the BBC or Guardian
sites every day, he might have figured it out.

Kerry & the other congressional Democrats seem to have wagered the costs of war against the very
good chance that Shrub would hoist himself on his petard.

I am not impressed at all with their ethics in this.

--
--
Lynn Wallace xmission.com~lawallOpen ↗ "I'm not proud. We really haven't done everything we
could to protect our customers. Our products just aren't engineered for security." --Microsoft VP in
charge of Windows OS Development, Brian Valentine.

"Jeff Jones" <jeff@cyclingnews-punt-com> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"B. Lafferty" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I'm toying with the idea of working for Bush's re-election so that

things

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

will get so bad there might be a chance for some real change (as in

voter

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

realignments). Then again, emigration is a possibility. My wife has

had

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

teaching offers in Western Europe in the past........the last was an

inquiry

Quoted message said:

from a veterinary program in the Netherlands. Maybe something will open

up

Quoted message said:

in Belgium. :-)

Nah it's a closed shop here, unless she's a *real* pro and handy with the pigeons. Maybe you could
set yourselves up as a private soigneur/veterinarian team, all totally above board of course.

Jeff

Nothing like naturally fast pigeons. So what if they weigh thirty pounds and fly at 200kph.

"B. Lafferty" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"Kurgan Gringioni" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"B. Lafferty" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I hope "Old Europe" lets Bush, Cheney, Condi, The Wolf and all the

other

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

neocons twist in the wind a good long while........long enough for the "average" American to
get a vague idea that they were had.

The "average" American doesn't read enough to figure it out.

I agree. That's how we got into the mess in the first place. When John Kerry says he was misled on
Iraq by Bush, I don't know whether to laugh or cry. If he had simply gone to the BBC or Guardian
sites every day, he

might

Quoted message said:

have figured it out.

Quoted message said:

Many of them (even some rbr posters) think that Saddam was behind 9/11

and

Quoted message said:

a

Quoted message said:

significant minority even believe that WMD were used against US troops

in

Quoted message said:

the

Quoted message said:

lastest war (even though the military will tell otherwise). Many people

have

Quoted message said:

a tendency to believe what they want to, even if the facts say something else.

Sadly, the American people usually wake up late,

I've never been able to figure out just who the "American people" are!

To me the "American people" seem like a moving target depending on which party is in power.

The Republicans exclude everyone that is not a white conservative Christian. Except for a few token
blacks in the administration.

The Democrats include everyone except the white conservative Christian.

So WTF?

Dashii

">

Quoted message said:

The Republicans exclude everyone that is not a white conservative

Christian.

Quoted message said:

Except for a few token blacks in the administration.

I am sure Condoleeza Rice, Colin Powell, Clarence Thomas, Walt Williams, Thomas Sowell,
Armstrong (damn what is his last name), and a slew of others (not all in the administration)
appreciate being called tokens. I presume that Mineta (a Democrat) is a token Asian as well.

Quoted message said:

The Democrats include everyone except the white conservative Christian.

There are plenty of white liberal Christians out there like one of the Methodist groups.

Funny how a discussion of the failure of two athletes to follow UCI rules led to hear.
It reminds me of conversations with my brothers that go way off on tangents and we try
to back track to see how we got there....

Quoted message said:

So WTF?

Dashii

Sam said:

">

Quoted message said:

The Republicans exclude everyone that is not a white conservative

Christian.

Quoted message said:

Except for a few token blacks in the administration.

I am sure Condoleeza Rice, Colin Powell, Clarence Thomas, Walt Williams, Thomas Sowell,
Armstrong (damn what is his last name), and a slew of others (not all in the administration)
appreciate being called tokens. I presume that Mineta (a Democrat) is a token Asian as well.

Quoted message said:

The Democrats include everyone except the white conservative Christian.

There are plenty of white liberal Christians out there like one of the Methodist
groups.

Funny how a discussion of the failure of two athletes to follow UCI rules led to hear.
It reminds me of conversations with my brothers that go way off on tangents and we try
to back track to see how we got there....

A common tactic. When on shaky ground, do one of two things, or both if you really can't shore up
your point:

1) Shift the topic to one you feel you can defend better (or you feel others will leap in to take
your side and you can craftily stfu and slink away from the ensuing chaos.)

2) Resort to shouting or name calling.

If you're bored, this is an interesting sight to read:

winternet.comflame01.htmlOpen ↗

(This site seems to replicate most of it and you can see thumbnails.
politicsforum.orgflame warriorsOpen ↗ )

No doubt you will readily begin typing some of your fellow posters in no time.

Sam said:

I am sure Condoleeza Rice, Colin Powell, Clarence Thomas, Walt Williams, Thomas Sowell, Armstrong
(damn what is his last name), and a slew of others (not all in the administration) appreciate
being called tokens. I presume that Mineta (a Democrat) is a token Asian as well.

They may not appreciate being called tokens, but that you can name just about every
high-level non-white official in the administration in one short post pretty much supports
the idea that they are.

On the other hand, it appears that the President has the support of some of the great
intellectual heavyweights of our time: "Honestly, I think we should just trust our president in
every decision that he makes and we should just support that." -- Britney Spears, to Tucker
Carlson, 3 September 2003.

In article said:

Raptor said:

Frat-boy will have to do the old "Thank you sir may I have another?" routine before the
upper-classmen from Old Europe lift a finger to pull his gonads out of the fire he started.

Liberation is the left-most of the big French newspapers (there are leftier papers but they're not
as big, and there are bigger papers but they're not as lefty) and was pretty much dead set against
the war. That's why I was vaguely surprised that its editorial on the Bush "about-face" was so
pragmatic. It advised that France not let Iraq sink just to see Bush fail (no matter how tempting
that thought is to the French). It would be tough for the French to commit troops under American
command, though, unless there were major concessions in something else. See, this is what this
administration has gotten us into: we're waiting on terms from an irrelevant Old Europe. Well, at
least we got rid of all those WMDs in Iraq... uh, wait, I meant at least we ended the threat of
terrorism... uh, wait....um... hmmm... I meant, did we teach those North Koreans a lesson or
what?... ok, maybe that wasn't the best example, just give me a minute...

Josh Marshall has a good take on this:
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Paul Wolfowitz may be saying that he's wanted the UN in Iraq from day one. But those of us who
are still reporting from the planet Earth know this is the exact opposite of the truth.

Stiffing the UN and threatening retaliation against key Security Council members may have been
impolitic and ill-judged. But stiffing and threatening when you were going to have to come back
to them six months later with hat in hand asking to get bailed out is just stupid.

I spoke this morning to a foreign policy insider who'd been to an off-the-record conference also
attended by French Foreign Minister Dominique de Villepin just after the end of the war. He
confirmed what was at least informally obvious to everyone who was watching: that the French were
practically pleading for us to let them in on the effort in Iraq as long as the halo of victory
was still over us.

Now, not so much.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
talkingpointsmemo.comsept0301.htmlOpen ↗

I do think that the French, Germans, etc. will eventually get involved in Iraq, but it'll be
after some concessions are made by the US on the "complete control" of everything end of things.

--
tanx, Howard

"Head of a cat, body of a monkey, Here comes a plague upon the land." The Billy Nayer Show

remove YOUR SHOES to reply, ok?

Howard Kveck said:

Josh Marshall has a good take on this:
------------------------------------------------------------------------

-----

Quoted message said:

Paul Wolfowitz may be saying that he's wanted the UN in Iraq from day one. But those of us who
are still reporting from the planet Earth know this is the exact opposite of the truth.

Stiffing the UN and threatening retaliation against key Security
Council members may have been impolitic and ill-judged. But stiffing
and threatening when you were going to have to come back to them six
months later with hat in hand asking to get bailed out is just stupid.

I spoke this morning to a foreign policy insider who'd been to an off-the-record conference
also attended by French Foreign Minister Dominique de Villepin just after the end of the war.
He confirmed what was at least informally obvious to everyone who was watching: that the French
were practically pleading for us to let them in on the effort in Iraq as long as the halo of
victory was still over us.

Now, not so much.
------------------------------------------------------------------------

------

Quoted message said:

talkingpointsmemo.comsept0301.htmlOpen ↗

I do think that the French, Germans, etc. will eventually get involved in Iraq, but it'll be
after some concessions are made by the US on the "complete control" of everything end of
things.

Yeah, that's the weirdest part. France and Germany actually did want to send troops at one point,
but the administration didn't want to share the TV time. It's still in their own interest to send
troops so they almost surely will but the timing of it is now in their hands. Nice plan, Mr. Bush.