US Postal the best team...

"mr60percent" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

...or the best doped team. Isn't it strange the way former US Postal
super domestiques like Heras and Hamilton when they become team
leaders and protected riders in their own right cant even keep up with
the current crop of US Postal domestiques.

Actually, I think it is far more convincing an argument for solid training.
If it were just drugs, wouldn't their outstanding performances travel with
them in a vial?

TM said:

"mr60percent" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

...or the best doped team. Isn't it strange the way former US Postal
super domestiques like Heras and Hamilton when they become team
leaders and protected riders in their own right cant even keep up with
the current crop of US Postal domestiques.

Actually, I think it is far more convincing an argument for solid training.
If it were just drugs, wouldn't their outstanding performances travel with
them in a vial?

Postal D's riders have a few advantages:
1. They train specifically for the Tour.
2. Their roll is very specific. They know exactly what they need
to do in the race.
3. Their ride is essentially done when their turn in the train
is over. I've been told that an effort of 50% duration can
be done @ 5% greater power. This is a big advantage.

I can't comment on possible illegal activity. In any activity, many people
try to gain advantage. Cycling is no different.

Dan

"mr60percent" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

...or the best doped team. Isn't it strange the way former US Postal
super domestiques like Heras and Hamilton when they become team
leaders and protected riders in their own right cant even keep up with
the current crop of US Postal domestiques.

I guess you're not counting Tyler's 4th in the Tour last year.

In article <[email hidden]>,
[email hidden] says...

Quoted message said:

...or the best doped team. Isn't it strange the way former US Postal
super domestiques like Heras and Hamilton when they become team
leaders and protected riders in their own right cant even keep up with
the current crop of US Postal domestiques.

Different team, different training.
--------------
Alex

On Thu, 29 Jul 2004 14:15:17 GMT, Dan Connelly <d_j_c_o_n_n_e_l@i_e_e_e.o_r_g>

Quoted message said:

TM said:

"mr60percent" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

...or the best doped team. Isn't it strange the way former US Postal
super domestiques like Heras and Hamilton when they become team
leaders and protected riders in their own right cant even keep up with
the current crop of US Postal domestiques.

Actually, I think it is far more convincing an argument for solid training.
If it were just drugs, wouldn't their outstanding performances travel with
them in a vial?

Postal D's riders have a few advantages:
1. They train specifically for the Tour.
2. Their roll is very specific. They know exactly what they need
to do in the race.
3. Their ride is essentially done when their turn in the train
is over. I've been told that an effort of 50% duration can
be done @ 5% greater power. This is a big advantage.

I can't comment on possible illegal activity. In any activity, many people
try to gain advantage. Cycling is no different.

Good points and I think very important ones. These guys aren't expected to be on
the road competing as long as their competitors.

Ron

It's dedication to organization and purpose. You did not see US Posties
taking flyers trying to perform a successful individual breakaway as most
other teams riders did. No way can a team perform as a team when they have
riders like Simeoni breaking away. US Posties do their assigned job of
bringing Armstrong to Paris. Other teams were content to send riders off
scavenging team points or jerseys other than Yellow.

Ken

"mr60percent" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

...or the best doped team. Isn't it strange the way former US Postal
super domestiques like Heras and Hamilton when they become team
leaders and protected riders in their own right cant even keep up with
the current crop of US Postal domestiques.

Dan Connelly <d_j_c_o_n_n_e_l@i_e_e_e.o_r_g> wrote in
news:[email hidden]:

Quoted message said:

TM said:

"mr60percent" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

...or the best doped team. Isn't it strange the way former US Postal
super domestiques like Heras and Hamilton when they become team
leaders and protected riders in their own right cant even keep up
with the current crop of US Postal domestiques.

Actually, I think it is far more convincing an argument for solid
training. If it were just drugs, wouldn't their outstanding
performances travel with them in a vial?

Postal D's riders have a few advantages:
1. They train specifically for the Tour.
2. Their roll is very specific. They know exactly what they need
to do in the race.
3. Their ride is essentially done when their turn in the train
is over. I've been told that an effort of 50% duration can
be done @ 5% greater power. This is a big advantage.

I can't comment on possible illegal activity. In any activity, many
people try to gain advantage. Cycling is no different.

Dan

Good points. I would add that if the team was using drugs, one would
think that a disgruntle team member would blow their cover over the many
years. Why hasn't that happened? I think their great performance is
just hard training.

Yall don't get it. If people think the evidence that Amstrong, or US
Postal is on drugs that the do so well in the Tour de France, they'e
mistaken. The reason to (sadly) suspect anyone riding at a high level
in the sport is that lots of pro athletes in cycling (and other
sports) are on drugs. It's widespread.

People ask me if Armstrong is on drugs. I can only say "It wouldn't
surprise me." Because in all likelihood between 30 and 95% of the
guys at the top of the sport are.

JT

"Dan Connelly" <d_j_c_o_n_n_e_l@i_e_e_e.o_r_g> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

TM said:

"mr60percent" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

...or the best doped team. Isn't it strange the way former US Postal
super domestiques like Heras and Hamilton when they become team
leaders and protected riders in their own right cant even keep up with
the current crop of US Postal domestiques.

Actually, I think it is far more convincing an argument for solid

training.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

If it were just drugs, wouldn't their outstanding performances travel

with

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

them in a vial?

Postal D's riders have a few advantages:
1. They train specifically for the Tour.
2. Their roll is very specific. They know exactly what they need
to do in the race.
3. Their ride is essentially done when their turn in the train
is over. I've been told that an effort of 50% duration can
be done @ 5% greater power. This is a big advantage.

Again, all of this can be done with confidence since the outcome is most
certain for the current defending champ. No other team can sell this to
management even when a rider beleives 100% in his ability. The only time I
have seen a challenger focus as much on the Tour was Greg Lemond and Bjarne
Riis the year he won but even they raced to win before the Tour. Greg tried
to win the Giro in '96 but ended up in 4th. Bjarne tried to win some other
tours prior to July. I don't recall the results but when Riis won the Amstel
Gold in '97, he lost as defending champ.

Quoted message said:

I can't comment on possible illegal activity. In any activity, many

people

Quoted message said:

try to gain advantage. Cycling is no different.

Dan

John Forrest Tomlinson <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

Yall don't get it. If people think the evidence that Amstrong, or US
Postal is on drugs that the do so well in the Tour de France, they'e
mistaken. The reason to (sadly) suspect anyone riding at a high level
in the sport is that lots of pro athletes in cycling (and other
sports) are on drugs. It's widespread.

People ask me if Armstrong is on drugs. I can only say "It wouldn't
surprise me." Because in all likelihood between 30 and 95% of the
guys at the top of the sport are.

JT

Wow..........so we have narrowed it down to 30%-95% use drugs.
[censored] with that kind of scientific based fact, you can really
clean up the sport. Lets just say 95% are doping, and instead of
looking for the drug users, we only look for the 5% that's clean and
sack the rest.....problem solved. It's always amazing to hear the
guilty guys claim that 95% is dirty, must make their justification for
doping that much easier for them.

"OMC"

"OMC" wrote...

Quoted message said:

John Forrest Tomlinson wrote...

Quoted message said:

in all likelihood between 30 and 95% of the
guys at the top of the sport are.

JT

Wow..........so we have narrowed it down to 30%-95% use drugs.

You're really putting yourself out there with that one John.

USPS is the best TOUR team. The best team overall is T-Mobile.

Kenny

USPS is the best TOUR team. The best team overall is T-Mobile.

Kenny

USPS is the best TOUR team. The best team overall is T-Mobile.

Kenny

"OMC" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

John Forrest Tomlinson <[email hidden]> wrote in message

news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Yall don't get it. If people think the evidence that Amstrong, or US
Postal is on drugs that the do so well in the Tour de France, they'e
mistaken. The reason to (sadly) suspect anyone riding at a high level
in the sport is that lots of pro athletes in cycling (and other
sports) are on drugs. It's widespread.

People ask me if Armstrong is on drugs. I can only say "It wouldn't
surprise me." Because in all likelihood between 30 and 95% of the
guys at the top of the sport are.

JT

Wow..........so we have narrowed it down to 30%-95% use drugs.
[censored] with that kind of scientific based fact, you can really
clean up the sport. Lets just say 95% are doping, and instead of
looking for the drug users, we only look for the 5% that's clean and
sack the rest.....problem solved. It's always amazing to hear the
guilty guys claim that 95% is dirty, must make their justification for
doping that much easier for them.

"OMC"

No matter what percentage you pick is really beside the point, IMO. It is
pretty clear that there is a significant problem in cycling as well as many
other sports. When you look at a guy like David Millar and his
reasons/rationalizations for letting Lelli start him on EPO, it really is
frightening to see the pressure riders face to get results at almost any
cost. That seems to me to be especially true for riders coming into the
elite pro level with "expectations" tacked on to them by either the press or
teams desperate for an new star and his/her resulting UCI points.

(OMC) said:

Wow..........so we have narrowed it down to 30%-95% use drugs.
[censored] with that kind of scientific based fact, you can really
clean up the sport. Lets just say 95% are doping, and instead of
looking for the drug users, we only look for the 5% that's clean and
sack the rest.....problem solved. It's always amazing to hear the
guilty guys claim that 95% is dirty, must make their justification for
doping that much easier for them.

Mr. Creed,

The sad fact is I just don't know the percentage. Sad that I don't
know, and sad that I wouldn't be surprised if it was 95%. I hope it's
not that high.

There are athletes who I am pretty near certain are not on drugs
because not only do they deny it but they pour scorn on the practice
and call for better controls and better systems to find cheater. In
skiing one for sure is Beckie Scott. There's a young guy on USPS who
you may know who has written similar stuff which I admire.

JT

[email hidden] (Kenny) wrote in
news:[email hidden]:

Quoted message said:

USPS is the best TOUR team. The best team overall is T-Mobile.

Kenny

It seemed that CSC had the second best team. T-Mobile would be third.

B. Lafferty said:

Quoted message said:

No matter what percentage you pick is really beside the point, IMO. It is
pretty clear that there is a significant problem in cycling as well as many
other sports. When you look at a guy like David Millar and his
reasons/rationalizations for letting Lelli start him on EPO, it really is
frightening to see the pressure riders face to get results at almost any
cost. That seems to me to be especially true for riders coming into the
elite pro level with "expectations" tacked on to them by either the press or
teams desperate for an new star and his/her resulting UCI points.

Do you believe only an "informed consent" can make them aware of the cost? Are they really that
ignorant of the cost? Aren't they saying "the cost is worth it?"

Ravenwolf <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

[email hidden] (Kenny) wrote in
news:[email hidden]:

Quoted message said:

USPS is the best TOUR team. The best team overall is T-Mobile.

Kenny

It seemed that CSC had the second best team. T-Mobile would be third.

You're talking about the Tour? Ok, but since the start of the season,
T-Mobile is the best.

Kenny