Upper Limit on Fat & Protein?

In article said:

Anyone know if there's an upper limit on the number of grams of fat & protein (& cholesterol) one
can eat safely?

165gm protein is OK, in fact you really should be taking that much. Some types of fat are
fairly unhealthy, some aren't. There's a difference between heavy cream and cold olive oil or
nuts or whatever. Try to take in less saturated fat and more of the healthy oils if you aren't
doing so already.

Cheers,
--
Donovan Rebbechi pegasus.rutgers.edu~elflordOpen ↗

Excess protein is excreted by the kidneys, which can be a strain if something else going on. The
triple whammy of excess protein, dehydration and ibruprofen can sometimes cause kidney damage.

"rick++" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Excess protein is excreted by the kidneys, which can be a strain if

something else going on. The triple whammy of excess protein, dehydration and ibruprofen can
sometimes cause kidney damage.<

That's part of what I was concerned about. I don't have any difficulty maintaining or adding lean
muscle tissue. I recover quickly from my training as long as I get sufficent calories. But it's
tough to get enough calories without eating calorie dense, high protein foods. I might try to
increase my carb intake to 70+ % of total calories & reduce protein to 10% & fat to 20%. I guess
I'll be "grazing" all day.

In article said:

Excess protein is excreted by the kidneys,

Yes, but he's not taking "excess protein".

Cheers,
--
Donovan Rebbechi pegasus.rutgers.edu~elflordOpen ↗

In article said:

"rick++" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Excess protein is excreted by the kidneys, which can be a strain if

something else going on. The triple whammy of excess protein, dehydration and ibruprofen can
sometimes cause kidney damage.<

That's part of what I was concerned about. I don't have any difficulty maintaining or adding lean
muscle tissue. I recover quickly from my training as long as I get sufficent calories. But it's
tough to get enough calories without eating calorie dense, high protein foods.

If you're worried about kidney damage, drink more water. Eating 1gm protein per pound bodyweight is
not unusual by any means. It is quite normal for strength athletes, and more recently, for
endurance athletes.

The studies on protein consumption show that endurance athletes need to take .6-0.8gm protein to
maintain a positive nitrogen balance. That means that performance nutrition for endurance athletes
begins at the top of that range. Taking less than this because of some unfounded fear about "kidney
damage" or "cholesterol" (which isn't affected by protein intake) is ill-advised.

Quoted message said:

I might try to increase my carb intake to 70+ % of total calories & reduce protein to 10%

Using percentages to determine protein intake is not a good idea, because the amount of protein you
need does not necessarily have a whole lot to do with your total caloric requirements. There is hard
scientific data that gives the amount of protein that endurance athletes should consume. You can go
with the science, or you can go with arbitrary percentages that you made up after hearing rumors
about "kidney damage". Your choice.

The main thing you need to pay attention to with protein intake is finding protein sources that do
not come with large amounts of saturated fat. For example, if you're eating "ordinary" meat and
dairy products for your protein, you're probably going to get a lot of saturated fat too. To avoid
this, use low fat dairy products and/or meat products that are low in "bad" fat (chicken breasts,
tuna). Consider taking an inexpensive whey protein supplement which will also have almost no fat
(these are, per gram of protein, about as cheap as (or maybe cheaper than?) milk if you get them
over the internet).

Quoted message said:

& fat to 20%. I guess I'll be "grazing" all day.

Not all fat is the same. Saturated fat is not the same as the fat in nuts, or olive oil. Focus on
trying to keep your intake of *saturated* fat down. Even 20% of total calories in saturated fat is
high, even for a 2000 calorie a day diet. If you're going to stuff 6000 calories down your throat on
a daily basis, you will need to have a good grasp of these details.

Cheers,
--
Donovan Rebbechi pegasus.rutgers.edu~elflordOpen ↗

Quoted message said:

If you're worried about kidney damage, drink more water. Eating 1gm protein per pound bodyweight
is not unusual by any means. It is quite normal for strength athletes, and more recently, for
endurance athletes.

The studies on protein consumption show that endurance athletes need to take .6-0.8gm protein to
maintain a positive nitrogen balance. That means that performance nutrition for endurance athletes
begins at the top of that range. Taking less than this because of some unfounded fear about
"kidney damage" or "cholesterol" (which isn't affected by protein intake) is ill-advised.

The most likely harm is to the wallet. Considering execess protein is mostly leaked away, and that
protein food sources cost a fortune- that gives "the golden stream" a second meaning.

In article said:

Quoted message said:

If you're worried about kidney damage, drink more water. Eating 1gm protein per pound bodyweight
is not unusual by any means. It is quite normal for strength athletes, and more recently, for
endurance athletes.

The studies on protein consumption show that endurance athletes need to take .6-0.8gm protein to
maintain a positive nitrogen balance. That means that performance nutrition for endurance
athletes begins at the top of that range. Taking less than this because of some unfounded fear
about "kidney damage" or "cholesterol" (which isn't affected by protein intake) is ill-advised.

The most likely harm is to the wallet. Considering execess protein is mostly leaked away, and that
protein food sources cost a fortune- that gives "the golden stream" a second meaning.

A whey powder purchased on the internet will set you back about 1.5 cents per gram of protein.
People who are looking to consume more protein can (and probably should) shop around for
economical sources.

Cheers,
--
Donovan Rebbechi pegasus.rutgers.edu~elflordOpen ↗

I agree with Donovan that the use of % is overly simplistic. Rather how
about:

(all are g/kg body weight)

6 to 10 CHO
1.2 to 1.8 protein (although I have seen one recommendation that goes 1.6 to
1.1)

Fat is kept to 20% of total energy intake. I have never seen a high end in terms of absolute (or
relative) amounts.

The amount of CHO should follow training load (at times of high training loads, be toward 10 g/kg;
at times of lower training load be closer to 6
g/kg)

In a healthy person, 2 g/kg protein should not pose a problem for the kidneys.

Very little evidence to suggest that even strength/power athletes need to exceed 2g/kg protein.

--
Sam, glad to be back after a bit of a hiatus. "Donovan Rebbechi" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

In article said:

"rick++" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Excess protein is excreted by the kidneys, which can be a strain if

something else going on. The triple whammy of excess protein,

dehydration

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

and ibruprofen can sometimes cause kidney damage.<

That's part of what I was concerned about. I don't have any difficulty maintaining or adding
lean muscle tissue. I recover quickly from my

training

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

as long as I get sufficent calories. But it's tough to get enough

calories

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

without eating calorie dense, high protein foods.

If you're worried about kidney damage, drink more water. Eating 1gm

protein per

Quoted message said:

pound bodyweight is not unusual by any means. It is quite normal for

strength

Quoted message said:

athletes, and more recently, for endurance athletes.

The studies on protein consumption show that endurance athletes need to

take

Quoted message said:

.6-0.8gm protein to maintain a positive nitrogen balance. That means that performance nutrition
for endurance athletes begins at the top of that

range.

Quoted message said:

Taking less than this because of some unfounded fear about "kidney damage"

or

Quoted message said:

"cholesterol" (which isn't affected by protein intake) is ill-advised.

Quoted message said:

I might try to increase my carb intake to 70+ % of total calories &

reduce

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

protein to 10%

Using percentages to determine protein intake is not a good idea, because

the

Quoted message said:

amount of protein you need does not necessarily have a whole lot to do

with

Quoted message said:

your total caloric requirements. There is hard scientific data that gives

the

Quoted message said:

amount of protein that endurance athletes should consume. You can go with

the

Quoted message said:

science, or you can go with arbitrary percentages that you made up after hearing rumors about
"kidney damage". Your choice.

The main thing you need to pay attention to with protein intake is finding protein sources that do
not come with large amounts of saturated fat. For example, if you're eating "ordinary" meat and
dairy products for your

protein,

Quoted message said:

you're probably going to get a lot of saturated fat too. To avoid this,

use

Quoted message said:

low fat dairy products and/or meat products that are low in "bad" fat

(chicken

Quoted message said:

breasts, tuna). Consider taking an inexpensive whey protein supplement

which

Quoted message said:

will also have almost no fat (these are, per gram of protein, about as

cheap

Quoted message said:

as (or maybe cheaper than?) milk if you get them over the internet).

Quoted message said:

& fat to 20%. I guess I'll be "grazing" all day.

Not all fat is the same. Saturated fat is not the same as the fat in nuts,

or

Quoted message said:

olive oil. Focus on trying to keep your intake of *saturated* fat down.

Even

Quoted message said:

20% of total calories in saturated fat is high, even for a 2000 calorie a

day

Quoted message said:

diet. If you're going to stuff 6000 calories down your throat on a daily

basis,

Quoted message said:

you will need to have a good grasp of these details.

Cheers,
--
Donovan Rebbechi pegasus.rutgers.edu~elflordOpen ↗

In article said:

I agree with Donovan that the use of % is overly simplistic. Rather how about:

(all are g/kg body weight)

6 to 10 CHO
1.2 to 1.8 protein (although I have seen one recommendation that goes 1.6 to
2.2)

Fat is kept to 20% of total energy intake. I have never seen a high end in terms of absolute (or
relative) amounts.

This places the upper limit at about 4500cal/day for a 70kg person, so the other guy is either 90kg+
or may want to reconsider his "need" for 6000 calories. The health problems that he reported do tend
to go hand in hand with overeating.

Cheers,
--
Donovan Rebbechi pegasus.rutgers.edu~elflordOpen ↗

Unfortunately, my original post was incorrect. In my statement, "...225 grams of fat & 165 grams of
protein...," I meant to write that I'm eating 165g fat & 225g protein.

I must be suffering from dyslexia brought on too much fat & protein. 🙂

Right now I weigh about 163lbs (74kg), so according to your info I should be eating.....

"Sam" wrote in message

Quoted message said:

I agree with Donovan that the use of % is overly implistic. Rather how

about:

(all are g/kg body weight) 6 to 10 CHO<

recommended CHO: 10g x 74kg = 740g or 2,960cal I'm currently eating >12g/kg or 900g or 3,600cal

Quoted message said:

1.2 to 1.8 protein (although I have seen one recommendation that goes 1.6

to 2.2)<

Recommended protein: max2g x 74kg = 148g or 590cal I'm currently eating 3g/kg or 225g or 900cal

Quoted message said:

Fat is kept to 20% of total energy intake. I have never seen a high end

in terms of absolute (or relative) amounts.<

Recommended fat: 20% of 6,000cal = 133g or 1,200cal I'm currently eating 25% or 1,500 cal

On your plan, I'm at 4750 cal; about 1,200 short. I'd like to stay at 8% body fat. I just don't feel
good when I drop much lower than that. Hence, my quandry. How to get enough calories without
contributing to elevated cholestorol or leading to future kidney problems.

I need to cut my current protein by 65 to 75 g, & my fat by 30 to 35g. I guess I have no choice
except to replace those calories with CHO. It seems like I'm already eating practically all day
long. The fat will be hard to replace. Know of any super high carb foods? Real foods; I eat enough
gel & gatorade as it is.

Thanks

"Donovan Rebbechi" wrote

Quoted message said:

This places the upper limit at about 4500cal/day for a 70kg person, so the

other guy is either 90kg+ or may want to reconsider his "need" for 6000 calories. The health
problems that he reported do tend to go hand in hand with overeating.<

Indeed I came to the same conclusion a few moments ago in my response to Sam's post. I'm at 74kg
so I'm calorically capped at 4,750 calories. By the way, in my original post, I transposed my
fat & protein consumption; I'm eating 225g of protein, not 165g. Conversely, my fat intake is
165g, not 225g.

Can you clarify your statement about health problems & overeating. Although I am expending what I
consume, I have heard that general health & longevity are adversely affected by high caloric intake
REGARDLESS of caloric expenditure. Read anything about that? I think I heard that on the radio. It
could have been a news item, or maybe a radio talk show; I can't remember.

Thanks.