Upper Body for Seniors

<[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I walk every day, so my lower body is pretty good. I'm 59 years old.
Is there a good site on the net that would guide me on using
dumbbells?

Ma'am, MFW used to be a nice neighborhood, but it's turned into a
rat-infested slum. You really shouldn't be wandering in here by yourself
asking innocent questions. Here's a link you should find useful,
http://www.stumptuous.com/cms/displayarticle.php?aid=64
Now get out of here if you know what's good for you.

<[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I walk every day, so my lower body is pretty good. I'm 59 years old.
Is there a good site on the net that would guide me on using
dumbbells?

http://www.exrx.net/Lists/Directory.html

Walking does not eliminate the need for lower body strength training.
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&q=strength+training+walking&btnG=Search

If all you have is dumbbells do dumbbell squats
http://www.exrx.net/WeightExercises/Quadriceps/DBSquat.html
or step-ups http://www.exrx.net/WeightExercises/Quadriceps/DBStepUp.html

"Ranieri" proclaimed thusly

Quoted message said:

<[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I walk every day, so my lower body is pretty good. I'm 59 years old.
Is there a good site on the net that would guide me on using
dumbbells?

Ma'am, MFW used to be a nice neighborhood, but it's turned into a
rat-infested slum. You really shouldn't be wandering in here by yourself
asking innocent questions. Here's a link you should find useful,
http://www.stumptuous.com/cms/displayarticle.php?aid=64
Now get out of here if you know what's good for you.

Word.

Quoted message said:

I walk every day, so my lower body is pretty good.

That's certainly relative, and subject to individual opinion.

Quoted message said:

I'm 59 years old.

Christ sakes, and you ain't dead yet????

Quoted message said:

Is there a good site on the net that would guide me on using
dumbbells?

Plenty of dumbells here, you'll get advice.

Quoted message said:

I walk every day, so my lower body is pretty good. I'm 59 years old.
Is there a good site on the net that would guide me on using
dumbbells?

Any site giving instructions will work for you. There is no diff in
workouts between a 59 y.o. and a 30 y.o. Stress / recover is the same.

"Paul Cassel" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I walk every day, so my lower body is pretty good. I'm 59 years old.
Is there a good site on the net that would guide me on using
dumbbells?

Any site giving instructions will work for you. There is no diff in
workouts between a 59 y.o. and a 30 y.o. Stress / recover is the same.

I'd be very interested to read any sources you have that might back that up.
Not necessarily doubting you, but I'm interested in atheltic training as it
pertains to the aging athlete.

"Ranieri" <nah> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"Paul Cassel" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I walk every day, so my lower body is pretty good. I'm 59 years old.
Is there a good site on the net that would guide me on using
dumbbells?

Any site giving instructions will work for you. There is no diff in
workouts between a 59 y.o. and a 30 y.o. Stress / recover is the same.

I'd be very interested to read any sources you have that might back that
up. Not necessarily doubting you, but I'm interested in atheltic training
as it pertains to the aging athlete.

I doubt he has any sources to back him up because, well, he's wrong, at
least as far as this 50-something is concerned.

-S-
http://www.kbnj.com

"Steve Freides" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"Ranieri" <nah> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"Paul Cassel" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

[email hidden] wrote:
> I walk every day, so my lower body is pretty good. I'm 59 years old.
> Is there a good site on the net that would guide me on using
> dumbbells?
Any site giving instructions will work for you. There is no diff in
workouts between a 59 y.o. and a 30 y.o. Stress / recover is the same.

I'd be very interested to read any sources you have that might back that
up. Not necessarily doubting you, but I'm interested in atheltic training
as it pertains to the aging athlete.

I doubt he has any sources to back him up because, well, he's wrong, at
least as far as this 50-something is concerned.

Thanks for dashing my fleeting hopes, Steve.

Ranieri' nah said:

I'd be very interested to read any sources you have that might back that up.
Not necessarily doubting you, but I'm interested in atheltic training as it
pertains to the aging athlete.

He's a dumbass. The recovery time increases as you age.

"Steve Freides" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"Ranieri" <nah> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"Paul Cassel" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

[email hidden] wrote:
> I walk every day, so my lower body is pretty good. I'm 59 years old.
> Is there a good site on the net that would guide me on using
> dumbbells?
Any site giving instructions will work for you. There is no diff in workouts
between a 59 y.o. and a 30 y.o. Stress / recover is the same.

I'd be very interested to read any sources you have that might back that up.
Not necessarily doubting you, but I'm interested in atheltic training as it
pertains to the aging athlete.

I doubt he has any sources to back him up because, well, he's wrong, at least
as far as this 50-something is concerned.

-S-
http://www.kbnj.com

As far as this 60-something is concerned he's right.

Steve Freides said:

"Ranieri" <nah> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Paul Cassel said:

[email hidden] wrote:
> I walk every day, so my lower body is pretty good. I'm 59 years old.
> Is there a good site on the net that would guide me on using
> dumbbells?
Any site giving instructions will work for you. There is no diff in
workouts between a 59 y.o. and a 30 y.o. Stress / recover is the same.

I'd be very interested to read any sources you have that might back that
up. Not necessarily doubting you, but I'm interested in atheltic training
as it pertains to the aging athlete.

I doubt he has any sources to back him up because, well, he's wrong, at
least as far as this 50-something is concerned.

Well, that depends on how you read what he said. Stress must be
proportionally less, and recovery must be proportionally longer, but
the concept remains the same.

Steve Freides said:

"Ranieri" <nah> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"Paul Cassel" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

[email hidden] wrote:
> I walk every day, so my lower body is pretty good. I'm 59 years old.
> Is there a good site on the net that would guide me on using
> dumbbells?
Any site giving instructions will work for you. There is no diff in
workouts between a 59 y.o. and a 30 y.o. Stress / recover is the same.

I'd be very interested to read any sources you have that might back that
up. Not necessarily doubting you, but I'm interested in atheltic training
as it pertains to the aging athlete.

I doubt he has any sources to back him up because, well, he's wrong, at
least as far as this 50-something is concerned.

I'm curious to hear from you what changes at 50 or wherever you think
the change occurs which say training routines need to be altered.

My comment is based on that there is nothing I"ve ever read / heard
saying there is some barrier age where your routines need to change.

-paul

Paul Cassel said:

I'm curious to hear from you what changes at 50 or wherever you think
the change occurs which say training routines need to be altered.

My comment is based on that there is nothing I"ve ever read / heard
saying there is some barrier age where your routines need to change.

-paul

Hey dumbass, I never said that. I said recovery time is longer as you
age, not that you had to change your routine.

"Paul Cassel" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Steve Freides said:

"Ranieri" <nah> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"Paul Cassel" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...
> [email hidden] wrote:
>> I walk every day, so my lower body is pretty good. I'm 59 years
>> old.
>> Is there a good site on the net that would guide me on using
>> dumbbells?
> Any site giving instructions will work for you. There is no diff in
> workouts between a 59 y.o. and a 30 y.o. Stress / recover is the
> same.
I'd be very interested to read any sources you have that might back
that up. Not necessarily doubting you, but I'm interested in
atheltic training as it pertains to the aging athlete.

I doubt he has any sources to back him up because, well, he's wrong,
at least as far as this 50-something is concerned.

I'm curious to hear from you what changes at 50 or wherever you think
the change occurs which say training routines need to be altered.

My comment is based on that there is nothing I"ve ever read / heard
saying there is some barrier age where your routines need to change.

Reading your other replies, I doubt we're in much, if any, disagreement
here, but I have found that my recovery needs have increased as I've
gotten older. E.g., I've got a DL peaking cycle I've done several times
over the past few years, and part of it is a two-week prep period in
which I basically work up to the kind of volume I want at the start of
the 4-week peaking period. This time it took me 3 weeks instead of 2 to
get the prep phase completed. Is that an age-related change? I think
it is. It could also be because the weights are heavier this time
around than they've ever been because my 1RM is higher and the cycle is
all based on percentages of my 1RM. So, am I _sure_ it's age-related?
No, but it sure feels like it is, and I suspect that as I continue,
knock on wood, to age, I'll continue to need to take more recovery time
from at least certain kinds of lifting than I did when I was younger.

Ricky Dale Crain has some interesting things to say about lifting as you
get older - they were in his newsletter a couple of issues back. He
basically said that most people go with lighter weights as they age and
that this is a mistake. He said it's better to keep it heavy but
compensate in other ways, e.g., shorter sets. If memory serves, I
mentioned this paragraph to Pavel, who reprinted it in one of his
newsletters along with sign-up info for RDC's newsletter, and RDC had a
bunch of new people sign up as a result. Here's a piece of what RDC
wrote:

"If the weight drops too low due to higher reps, too much muscle mass
and/or strength will be lost (much of which cannot be recovered). As I
get older I am seeing the same thing occur, not only in me but in the
many other master age lifters who I train with. Remember to keep the
weight up and get your rest from fewer sets and less supplementary work,
not less weight."

Although he's not saying it directly, it's pretty clear RDC thinks one
must compensate for age in training, too.

I'm not suggesting any of this is scientifically proven, just that this
is how it feels to me - dare I ask how old you are, Paul? 🙂

-S-
http://www.kbnj.com

Paul Cassel said:

Steve Freides said:

"Ranieri" <nah> wrote

Quoted message said:

"Paul Cassel" <[email hidden]> wrote
> [email hidden] wrote:
>> I walk every day, so my lower body is pretty good. I'm 59 years old.
>> Is there a good site on the net that would guide me on using
>> dumbbells?
> Any site giving instructions will work for you. There is no diff in
> workouts between a 59 y.o. and a 30 y.o. Stress / recover is the same.
I'd be very interested to read any sources you have that might back that
up. Not necessarily doubting you, but I'm interested in atheltic training
as it pertains to the aging athlete.

I doubt he has any sources to back him up because, well, he's wrong, at
least as far as this 50-something is concerned.

I'm curious to hear from you what changes at 50 or wherever you think
the change occurs which say training routines need to be altered.

My comment is based on that there is nothing I"ve ever read / heard
saying there is some barrier age where your routines need to change.

While no specific age barrier, I believe it is wise, as one gets older,
to be more careful to avoid injury, as healing is slower and less
complete; be more careful of joints, as they are more prone to injury;
to add stretching if not already part of the routine; reduce, or
eliminate, sets to failure; and get frequent massages from hot women to
aid recovery.

David

David Cohen said:

Quoted message said:

My comment is based on that there is nothing I"ve ever read / heard
saying there is some barrier age where your routines need to change.

While no specific age barrier, I believe it is wise, as one gets older,
to be more careful to avoid injury, as healing is slower and less
complete; be more careful of joints, as they are more prone to injury;
to add stretching if not already part of the routine; reduce, or
eliminate, sets to failure; and get frequent massages from hot women to
aid recovery.

I came to weights after RSI forced me out of distance running. There, I
and a very few others increased our injury rate if we stretched. While
that works for most, nothing works for all.

We in running used the phrase, "Listen to your body" which s/b the
watchword of all activity. In doing so, you balance for age, condition,
the phase of the moon or whatever.

-paul

Paul Cassel said:

David Cohen said:

Quoted message said:

My comment is based on that there is nothing I"ve ever read / heard
saying there is some barrier age where your routines need to change.

While no specific age barrier, I believe it is wise, as one gets older,
to be more careful to avoid injury, as healing is slower and less
complete; be more careful of joints, as they are more prone to injury;
to add stretching if not already part of the routine; reduce, or
eliminate, sets to failure; and get frequent massages from hot women to
aid recovery.

I came to weights after RSI forced me out of distance running. There, I
and a very few others increased our injury rate if we stretched. While
that works for most, nothing works for all.

I stretched (properly, many don't) for years, and like you I too
battled injurys. I finally got wise and stopped stretching and instead
walked or very slow jogged the first few miles. Immediately I had no
more injuries, and was able to increase my mileage to 9 a day, which
I've maintained for over 20 years now with not one running injury in
that time.
Stretching is for rubber bands, not humans.

Your pal,
Billie D.

Steve Freides said:

Reading your other replies, I doubt we're in much, if any, disagreement
here, but I have found that my recovery needs have increased as I've
gotten older. E.g., I've got a DL peaking cycle I've done several times
over the past few years, and part of it is a two-week prep period in
which I basically work up to the kind of volume I want at the start of
the 4-week peaking period. This time it took me 3 weeks instead of 2 to
get the prep phase completed. Is that an age-related change? I think
it is. It could also be because the weights are heavier this time
around than they've ever been because my 1RM is higher and the cycle is
all based on percentages of my 1RM. So, am I _sure_ it's age-related?
No, but it sure feels like it is, and I suspect that as I continue,
knock on wood, to age, I'll continue to need to take more recovery time
from at least certain kinds of lifting than I did when I was younger.

Ricky Dale Crain has some interesting things to say about lifting as you
get older - they were in his newsletter a couple of issues back. He
basically said that most people go with lighter weights as they age and
that this is a mistake. He said it's better to keep it heavy but
compensate in other ways, e.g., shorter sets. If memory serves, I
mentioned this paragraph to Pavel, who reprinted it in one of his
newsletters along with sign-up info for RDC's newsletter, and RDC had a
bunch of new people sign up as a result. Here's a piece of what RDC
wrote:

"If the weight drops too low due to higher reps, too much muscle mass
and/or strength will be lost (much of which cannot be recovered). As I
get older I am seeing the same thing occur, not only in me but in the
many other master age lifters who I train with. Remember to keep the
weight up and get your rest from fewer sets and less supplementary work,
not less weight."

Although he's not saying it directly, it's pretty clear RDC thinks one
must compensate for age in training, too.

I'm not suggesting any of this is scientifically proven, just that this
is how it feels to me - dare I ask how old you are, Paul? 🙂

I wonder how much of RDC's observation is due to hypertrophy well beyond
where a person's muscular 'set point' would be. By set point, I mean
where he'd be if he just did daily activities instead of lifting.

Probably all of us are somewhat hypertrophic compared to that so the
less we keep the stress on, the more we'd adapt back to our setpoint.
Then there is that business about losing muscle as we age. What is this
- 1% a year after 30? That seems to ring some sort of mental bell in my
brain.

Well, it didn't happen for me. I was about 130 lb distance runner who,
at about 40, got so injured again and again running that I had to give
it up. After a while being grumpy, I took to weights building a new body
of over 200 lbs. Now some was fat but plenty was muscle. I liked my
strong body over my fast one because I didn't need a g.f. to open a jar
of peanut butter for me any more.

I now mix bicycling with lifting. I figure I'll bike down to about 175
lbs which should leave me with most of the strength of weights but less
of the fat I gained by my lifting induced appetite. I don't seem to be
having any trouble building muscle mass in my quads - needed for
bicycling. Curiously, I'm getting more leg work from riding than from
squatting - which I suppose I never did seriously enough.

IIRC, Ken Cooper did some research on feeble 80 year olds finding that
they responded well to training. There is 71 y.o. at my gym who lifts
daily & looks darn good for it. I only wish females would get in there
more. Aren't there any non-fat females 40+ left?

That last comment is because I'm single and damn tired of meeting fems
who outweigh me. Good grief.

-paul

"Paul Cassel" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Steve Freides said:

Reading your other replies, I doubt we're in much, if any,
disagreement here, but I have found that my recovery needs have
increased as I've gotten older. E.g., I've got a DL peaking cycle
I've done several times over the past few years, and part of it is a
two-week prep period in which I basically work up to the kind of
volume I want at the start of the 4-week peaking period. This time
it took me 3 weeks instead of 2 to get the prep phase completed. Is
that an age-related change? I think it is. It could also be because
the weights are heavier this time around than they've ever been
because my 1RM is higher and the cycle is all based on percentages of
my 1RM. So, am I _sure_ it's age-related? No, but it sure feels like
it is, and I suspect that as I continue, knock on wood, to age, I'll
continue to need to take more recovery time from at least certain
kinds of lifting than I did when I was younger.

Ricky Dale Crain has some interesting things to say about lifting as
you get older - they were in his newsletter a couple of issues back.
He basically said that most people go with lighter weights as they
age and that this is a mistake. He said it's better to keep it heavy
but compensate in other ways, e.g., shorter sets. If memory serves,
I mentioned this paragraph to Pavel, who reprinted it in one of his
newsletters along with sign-up info for RDC's newsletter, and RDC had
a bunch of new people sign up as a result. Here's a piece of what
RDC wrote:

"If the weight drops too low due to higher reps, too much muscle mass
and/or strength will be lost (much of which cannot be recovered). As
I get older I am seeing the same thing occur, not only in me but in
the many other master age lifters who I train with. Remember to keep
the weight up and get your rest from fewer sets and less
supplementary work, not less weight."

Although he's not saying it directly, it's pretty clear RDC thinks
one must compensate for age in training, too.

I'm not suggesting any of this is scientifically proven, just that
this is how it feels to me - dare I ask how old you are, Paul? 🙂

I wonder how much of RDC's observation is due to hypertrophy well
beyond where a person's muscular 'set point' would be. By set point, I
mean where he'd be if he just did daily activities instead of lifting.

Not to get too philosophical here, but there's a world of meaning your
last sentence. Our lifestyle is a relatively recent thing in the
history of humankind, and "daily activities" a hundred or more years ago
would have meant more physical activity for most people and, therefore,
kept more muscle on their frames - at least that's how it seems to me.
So I don't really buy into the concept of a set-point - for each
activity set, there is a set-point, and if you choose to remain active
and lift weights, your set-point in terms of muscle mass stands a better
chance of not dropping as much as you age.

-S-
http://www.kbnj.com

Quoted message said:

Probably all of us are somewhat hypertrophic compared to that so the
less we keep the stress on, the more we'd adapt back to our setpoint.
Then there is that business about losing muscle as we age. What is
this - 1% a year after 30? That seems to ring some sort of mental bell
in my brain.

Well, it didn't happen for me. I was about 130 lb distance runner who,
at about 40, got so injured again and again running that I had to give
it up. After a while being grumpy, I took to weights building a new
body of over 200 lbs. Now some was fat but plenty was muscle. I liked
my strong body over my fast one because I didn't need a g.f. to open a
jar of peanut butter for me any more.

I now mix bicycling with lifting. I figure I'll bike down to about 175
lbs which should leave me with most of the strength of weights but
less of the fat I gained by my lifting induced appetite. I don't seem
to be having any trouble building muscle mass in my quads - needed for
bicycling. Curiously, I'm getting more leg work from riding than from
squatting - which I suppose I never did seriously enough.

IIRC, Ken Cooper did some research on feeble 80 year olds finding that
they responded well to training. There is 71 y.o. at my gym who lifts
daily & looks darn good for it. I only wish females would get in there
more. Aren't there any non-fat females 40+ left?

That last comment is because I'm single and damn tired of meeting fems
who outweigh me. Good grief.

-paul