upgrading to 9 speed

Eric: answers in text:

"Wreckless Eric" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Hello,

I'm currently running early "pointy" style 8 speed Ergo shifters,
an older style (tension adjuster on the back) 9 speed compatible
Campy rear derailleur, and 8 speed Shimano cassette hubs with a
Campy-compatibility spacer kit. I'm pretty sure my chain is 9
speed compatible.

Chains last 6 months max. Replace it anyway.

Quoted message said:

I've read recently that Shimano 8 speed hubs will take a 9 speed
cassette. I've also read that Shimano and Campy 9 speed spacing
is the same.

Shimano 8-speed hubs will take a Shimano 9-speed cassette. Unless it is the
first generation of Shimano 8-speed Dura-Ace hubs from about 15 years ago.
Campy and Shimano 9-speed cog spacing is different: 4.55mm cog center to
center for Campy, and 4.34mm for Shimano. In practice, this is close
enough, especially if you adjust the rear derailleur to be centered on a
middle cog. That way, the error at each end of the cogset is minimized.

Quoted message said:

It would seem that I should be able to upgrade to 9 speed by
putting in the correct early-style Campy 9 speed shifter slug, a
set of 9 speed Shimano sprocket spacers, and one more cog for my
wheel. are the rear cogs themselves the same width?

Something to think about is what is your generation of Campy 9-speed rear
derailleur. If it is post-2000, then it has the new mechanical advantage of
1.50 to 1. If you match this with a old 9-speed index ring (pre-2001), you
will get derailleur travel that will more closely match Shimano 8-speed
spacing (4.8mm) than Shimano 9-speed. If you want to make this work, an
older Campagnolo derailleur is definitely better.

BTW: I have Campy 8 and 9 speed systems. For the minimal benefit of another
gear, I don't think the "upgrade" would be worth the effort.

Cog width is close from 6-9 speeds. Between 1.8 and 2.0mm. What does
change is the width of the spacers. Practically you can mix loose Shimano
cogs.

Quoted message said:

Would I
need to add a spacer on my axle to get more clearance between my
smallest cog and the dropout.

Unlikely. 8 and 9 speed should be the same as far as the distance between
the first cog and the dropout.

Quoted message said:

-Eric

--
Miss Baby was alright until me and Junior turned her head around.

"Dave Mayer" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:0HRMf.78859$H%4.35298@pd7tw2no...

Quoted message said:

Eric: answers in text:

"Wreckless Eric" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Hello,

I'm currently running early "pointy" style 8 speed Ergo shifters,
an older style (tension adjuster on the back) 9 speed compatible
Campy rear derailleur, and 8 speed Shimano cassette hubs with a
Campy-compatibility spacer kit. I'm pretty sure my chain is 9
speed compatible.

Chains last 6 months max. Replace it anyway.

Quoted message said:

6 months?!#@ How many miles do you ride in 6 months? I have to disagree. You
should base whether to change your chain on the amount of "stretch," which
is based on mileage, usage and maintenance (or lack thereof), not on time.
For example, what if you don't ride for 6 months? Will it "stretch" enough
to be discarded? NO!

The cheapest and easiest way to check your chain is to get yourself a ruler
and measure 12 inches. If the chain stretches to 12 and 1/8 inch. THEN its
time to change it. For more on chains read here:

Sheldon's article on chains:
http://www.sheldonbrown.com/chains.html

Jobst's article on chain maintenance:
http://www.sheldonbrown.com/brandt/chain-care.html

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I've read recently that Shimano 8 speed hubs will take a 9 speed
cassette. I've also read that Shimano and Campy 9 speed spacing
is the same.

Shimano 8-speed hubs will take a Shimano 9-speed cassette. Unless it is

the

Quoted message said:

first generation of Shimano 8-speed Dura-Ace hubs from about 15 years ago.
Campy and Shimano 9-speed cog spacing is different: 4.55mm cog center to
center for Campy, and 4.34mm for Shimano. In practice, this is close
enough, especially if you adjust the rear derailleur to be centered on a
middle cog. That way, the error at each end of the cogset is minimized.

Quoted message said:

Agree. I use Campy 9 drivetrain (ergo levers, rear der) with Shimano 9
cassette/hub with no problem. The key for me was using a Shimano 9 chain
(narrower).

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

It would seem that I should be able to upgrade to 9 speed by
putting in the correct early-style Campy 9 speed shifter slug, a
set of 9 speed Shimano sprocket spacers, and one more cog for my
wheel. are the rear cogs themselves the same width?

Something to think about is what is your generation of Campy 9-speed rear
derailleur. If it is post-2000, then it has the new mechanical advantage

of

Quoted message said:

1.50 to 1. If you match this with a old 9-speed index ring (pre-2001),

you

Quoted message said:

will get derailleur travel that will more closely match Shimano 8-speed
spacing (4.8mm) than Shimano 9-speed. If you want to make this work, an
older Campagnolo derailleur is definitely better.

I think the pre and post 2001 rear der thing is overblown. Do a search here
and you will find alot of people, including alot of Campy "Experts," i.e.,
shop owners who work on Campy stuff, who are able to mix and match pre and
post 2001 Campy 9 rear der with Campy 9 ergo levers. If you have Campy 8
parts now, change your the shift cog in your ergo lever to a 9 speed one,
get a 9 chain, 9 cassette and give it a try. Then if you experience problems
should you consider changing your rear der.

Good Luck!

In message <0HRMf.78859$H%4.35298@pd7tw2no>, Dave Mayer
<[email hidden]> writes

Quoted message said:

Eric: answers in text:

"Wreckless Eric" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Hello,

I'm currently running early "pointy" style 8 speed Ergo shifters,
an older style (tension adjuster on the back) 9 speed compatible
Campy rear derailleur, and 8 speed Shimano cassette hubs with a
Campy-compatibility spacer kit.

snip)

Quoted message said:

Something to think about is what is your generation of Campy 9-speed rear
derailleur. If it is post-2000, then it has the new mechanical advantage of
1.50 to 1. If you match this with a old 9-speed index ring (pre-2001), you
will get derailleur travel that will more closely match Shimano 8-speed
spacing (4.8mm) than Shimano 9-speed. If you want to make this work, an
older Campagnolo derailleur is definitely better.

See:

http://www.ctc.org.uk/DesktopDefault.aspx?TabID=3946

Quoted message said:

BTW: I have Campy 8 and 9 speed systems. For the minimal benefit of another
gear, I don't think the "upgrade" would be worth the effort.

--

Martyn Aldis, e-mail [email hidden]
==============================================================================

Thanks, that's very helpful.

-Eric

Martyn Aldis said:

In message <0HRMf.78859$H%4.35298@pd7tw2no>, Dave Mayer
<[email hidden]> writes

Quoted message said:

Eric: answers in text:

"Wreckless Eric" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Hello,

I'm currently running early "pointy" style 8 speed Ergo shifters,
an older style (tension adjuster on the back) 9 speed compatible
Campy rear derailleur, and 8 speed Shimano cassette hubs with a
Campy-compatibility spacer kit.

snip)

Quoted message said:

Something to think about is what is your generation of Campy 9-speed rear
derailleur. If it is post-2000, then it has the new mechanical
advantage of
1.50 to 1. If you match this with a old 9-speed index ring
(pre-2001), you
will get derailleur travel that will more closely match Shimano 8-speed
spacing (4.8mm) than Shimano 9-speed. If you want to make this work, an
older Campagnolo derailleur is definitely better.

See:

http://www.ctc.org.uk/DesktopDefault.aspx?TabID=3946

Quoted message said:

BTW: I have Campy 8 and 9 speed systems. For the minimal benefit of
another
gear, I don't think the "upgrade" would be worth the effort.

Wreckless Eric said:

Hello,

I'm currently running early "pointy" style 8 speed Ergo shifters,
an older style (tension adjuster on the back) 9 speed compatible
Campy rear derailleur, and 8 speed Shimano cassette hubs with a
Campy-compatibility spacer kit. I'm pretty sure my chain is 9
speed compatible.

There are '9s' chains and '8s' chains.

Quoted message said:

I've read recently that Shimano 8 speed hubs will take a 9 speed
cassette. I've also read that Shimano and Campy 9 speed spacing
is the same.

Close but not the same. You can use a Campag ERGO 9s with shimano 9s
cohgsets w/o spacer kits.

Quoted message said:

It would seem that I should be able to upgrade to 9 speed by
putting in the correct early-style Campy 9 speed shifter slug, a
set of 9 speed Shimano sprocket spacers, and one more cog for my
wheel. are the rear cogs themselves the same width? Would I
need to add a spacer on my axle to get more clearance between my
smallest cog and the dropout.

Nope, as you mentioned, a 9s shift disc, a 9s cogset and chain and
bob's yer uncle.

Quoted message said:

-Eric

--
Miss Baby was alright until me and Junior turned her head around.

Dave Mayer said:

Eric: answers in text:

"Wreckless Eric" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Hello,

I'm currently running early "pointy" style 8 speed Ergo shifters,
an older style (tension adjuster on the back) 9 speed compatible
Campy rear derailleur, and 8 speed Shimano cassette hubs with a
Campy-compatibility spacer kit. I'm pretty sure my chain is 9
speed compatible.

Chains last 6 months max. Replace it anyway.

Quoted message said:

I've read recently that Shimano 8 speed hubs will take a 9 speed
cassette. I've also read that Shimano and Campy 9 speed spacing
is the same.

Shimano 8-speed hubs will take a Shimano 9-speed cassette. Unless it is the
first generation of Shimano 8-speed Dura-Ace hubs from about 15 years ago.
Campy and Shimano 9-speed cog spacing is different: 4.55mm cog center to
center for Campy, and 4.34mm for Shimano. In practice, this is close
enough, especially if you adjust the rear derailleur to be centered on a
middle cog. That way, the error at each end of the cogset is minimized.

Quoted message said:

It would seem that I should be able to upgrade to 9 speed by
putting in the correct early-style Campy 9 speed shifter slug, a
set of 9 speed Shimano sprocket spacers, and one more cog for my
wheel. are the rear cogs themselves the same width?

Something to think about is what is your generation of Campy 9-speed rear
derailleur. If it is post-2000, then it has the new mechanical advantage of
1.50 to 1. If you match this with a old 9-speed index ring (pre-2001), you
will get derailleur travel that will more closely match Shimano 8-speed
spacing (4.8mm) than Shimano 9-speed. If you want to make this work, an
older Campagnolo derailleur is definitely better.

The only 9s shift disc that will work in his lever is the one made in
1997, the last year of old shape ergo-A newer 9s cisc from 1998/9 will
not fit. He needs EC-RE-113. All this discussion about pre and post
2001 is a not important, since in reality, any ERGO will work with any
Campag rear derailleur, in actual practice. 8 with 10, 9 with 8, 10
with 8, etc.

Quoted message said:

BTW: I have Campy 8 and 9 speed systems. For the minimal benefit of another
gear, I don't think the "upgrade" would be worth the effort.

Cog width is close from 6-9 speeds. Between 1.8 and 2.0mm. What does
change is the width of the spacers. Practically you can mix loose Shimano
cogs.

Quoted message said:

Would I
need to add a spacer on my axle to get more clearance between my
smallest cog and the dropout.

Unlikely. 8 and 9 speed should be the same as far as the distance between
the first cog and the dropout.

Quoted message said:

-Eric

--
Miss Baby was alright until me and Junior turned her head around.

Dans le message de
news:[email hidden],
Qui si parla Campagnolo <[email hidden]> a réfléchi, et puis a déclaré :

Quoted message said:

Wreckless Eric said:

Hello,

I'm currently running early "pointy" style 8 speed Ergo shifters,
an older style (tension adjuster on the back) 9 speed compatible
Campy rear derailleur, and 8 speed Shimano cassette hubs with a
Campy-compatibility spacer kit. I'm pretty sure my chain is 9
speed compatible.

There are '9s' chains and '8s' chains.

Quoted message said:

I've read recently that Shimano 8 speed hubs will take a 9 speed
cassette. I've also read that Shimano and Campy 9 speed spacing
is the same.

Close but not the same. You can use a Campag ERGO 9s with shimano 9s
cohgsets w/o spacer kits.

Quoted message said:

It would seem that I should be able to upgrade to 9 speed by
putting in the correct early-style Campy 9 speed shifter slug, a
set of 9 speed Shimano sprocket spacers, and one more cog for my
wheel. are the rear cogs themselves the same width? Would I
need to add a spacer on my axle to get more clearance between my
smallest cog and the dropout.

Nope, as you mentioned, a 9s shift disc, a 9s cogset and chain and
bob's yer uncle.

This Bob - he gets around a lot, yes ?
--
Sandy
Verneuil-sur-Seine
*******

La vie, c'est comme une bicyclette,
il faut avancer pour ne pas perdre l'équilibre.
-- Einstein, A.