upgrading cassettes...stock or custom?

Do you have a 39 tooth Chainring. If you don't, you may
consider that route -- it's a bit cheaper, but more
importantly, you'll get the benefit of smaller gearing,
while having the cogset teeth more closely spaced, which
makes for better shifting.

BTW, spent a few years in Lewiston in the '80s. Wonderful
place [/sarcasm off]. But Acadia is awesome

"mtoverton" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I am looking for input on a pending cassette swap out.
I've got a

sweet

Quoted message said:

Trek 2003 with a 12-25 cassette. Converted from years of
running to

cycling

Quoted message said:

last year. Rode lots of 50 - 70 mile rides with plenty of
25 - 40's for

the

Quoted message said:

"regular" ride. Participated in a couple of Century's and
am upping the

ante

Quoted message said:

this season by training for a double century around the
solstice. I am fit and getting more dialed into road
biking with each ride. My reason for swapping out is that
I find that the 25 is just not

enough

Quoted message said:

of a low gear around here. I am 5'8'' and weigh 180 plus
(I lift a bit

too)

Quoted message said:

so I've got some mass for my height to propel uphill and
there is no shortage of hills here is eastern coastal
Maine. (I live in the

neighborhood

Quoted message said:

of Acadia National Park and riding up the Cadillac
Mountain road is just

one

Quoted message said:

of my hill climbs). As a matter of fact...there are no
flats to speak of around here. Lot's of hills...short and
steep (or occasionally long and steep). Not long rolling
stuff generally speaking. So...I have been thinking of
moving to the Shimano 12-27 which my LBS

is

Quoted message said:

presently holding for me. Getting a low end of 24-27
should help as

opposed

Quoted message said:

to 23-25 for the hills..right? But I keep thinking about
Sheldons Century Special 13-30 (13-14-15-17-19-21-24-27-
30) and wondering if that is the

way

Quoted message said:

to go. After all it is essentially the same as the S12-27
minus the 12 and adding the potentially high cadence hill
climbing 30 ! I am drawn to it since my favorite rides are
distance and hills just keep popping up with every turn.
Now I know this is not a support group (technically) but I
have lurked here since I developed the cycling bug and you
folks have some great insights...opinions? tirades?
Michael O.

mtoverton said:

around here. Lot's of hills...short and steep (or
occasionally long and steep). Not long rolling stuff
generally speaking. So...I have been thinking of moving to
the Shimano 12-27 which my LBS is presently holding for me.
Getting a low end of 24-27 should help as opposed to 23-25
for the hills..right? But I keep thinking about Sheldons
Century Special 13-30 (13-14-15-17-19-21-24-27-30) and
wondering if that is the way

Do you have a double crank or triple? With a triple, the 27
ought to be okay; with the double, you may want to go with
a cassette that includes a 34 bailout gear, and an
appropriate derailer.

Quoted message said:

to go. After all it is essentially the same as the S12-27
minus the 12 and adding the potentially high cadence hill
climbing 30 ! I am drawn to it since my favorite rides are
distance and hills just keep popping up with every turn.

At the end of a long ride when you're tired you may
appreciate a very low gear.

Quoted message said:

Now I know this is not a support group (technically)
but I have lurked here since I developed the cycling
bug and you folks have some great insights...opinions?
tirades?

This most certainly _is_ a support group. This is a
newsgroup where bicyclists offer tech support to other
bicyclists.
--
Rick Onanian

Yep , I'm running a 53-39 double up front. So knowing
that... what do you think about going to a 13-30
cassette? mto

"Doug" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:-
[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Do you have a 39 tooth Chainring. If you don't, you may
consider that route -- it's a bit cheaper, but more
importantly, you'll get the benefit of smaller gearing,
while having the cogset teeth more closely spaced, which
makes for better shifting.

Quoted message said:

Do you have a double crank or triple? With a triple, the
27 ought to be okay; with the double, you may want to go
with a cassette that includes a 34 bailout gear, and an
appropriate derailer.

I'm running a 39-53 double and intend to keep it that way.
My LBS tells me that I will not have to change my RD to go
with the 12-27 Shimano and I think Sheldon has implied to me
in an email that I can go with the 13-30 custom without a
deraileur change as well. Just shouldn't do stuff like run
in the small ring up front and the 13 sproket in back.

Quoted message said:

This most certainly _is_ a support group. This is a
newsgroup where bicyclists offer tech support to other
bicyclists.

Oh I know it's a support group, my tongue was in my cheek
(so hard to tell in text). An I appreciate the support!
Thanks all, Michael O.

Go to Sheldon's special. The only reason to go into a close
spaced cassette is if you train with very fast groups and if
you race. Sometimes, when there are slight increases and
decreases in speed, you may need a one tooth difference to
best adapt to the speed change. If this is not the case, the
century special is perfect. Also, if you find yourself in a
potential racing situation in flats or rolling hills, you
can swap cassettes before the race. With 8 and 9 speed
cassettes there are usually no great gaps anyway. Remember
though, if you go to the 30 teeth you will need a long cage
deraileur.

Andres

"mtoverton" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

I am looking for input on a pending cassette swap out.
I've got a sweet Trek 2003 with a 12-25 cassette.
Converted from years of running to cycling last year. Rode
lots of 50 - 70 mile rides with plenty of 25 - 40's for
the "regular" ride. Participated in a couple of Century's
and am upping the ante this season by training for a
double century around the solstice. I am fit and getting
more dialed into road biking with each ride. My reason for
swapping out is that I find that the 25 is just not enough
of a low gear around here. I am 5'8'' and weigh 180 plus
(I lift a bit too) so I've got some mass for my height to
propel uphill and there is no shortage of hills here is
eastern coastal Maine. (I live in the neighborhood of
Acadia National Park and riding up the Cadillac Mountain
road is just one of my hill climbs). As a matter of
fact...there are no flats to speak of around here. Lot's
of hills...short and steep (or occasionally long and
steep). Not long rolling stuff generally speaking. So...I
have been thinking of moving to the Shimano 12-27 which my
LBS is presently holding for me. Getting a low end of 24-
27 should help as opposed to 23-25 for the hills..right?
But I keep thinking about Sheldons Century Special 13-30
(13-14-15-17-19-21-24-27-30) and wondering if that is the
way to go. After all it is essentially the same as the S12-
27 minus the 12 and adding the potentially high cadence
hill climbing 30 ! I am drawn to it since my favorite
rides are distance and hills just keep popping up with
every turn. Now I know this is not a support group
(technically) but I have lurked here since I developed the
cycling bug and you folks have some great
insights...opinions? tirades? Michael O.

"mtoverton" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I'm running a 39-53 double and intend to keep it that way.
My LBS tells me that I will not have to change my RD to go
with the 12-27 Shimano and I think Sheldon has implied to
me in an email that I can go with the 13-30 custom without
a deraileur change as well. Just shouldn't do stuff like

run

Quoted message said:

in the small ring up front and the 13 sproket in back.

Quoted message said:

Don't forget that you can also replace that 39t chainring
with a 38. That, in conjunction with the low end of the 12-
27, might give you what you're looking for.

"mtoverton" <[email hidden]> wrote in
:"]news:[email hidden]:

Quoted message said:

Yep , I'm running a 53-39 double up front. So knowing
that... what do you think about going to a 13-30
cassette? mto

You're asking 2 different questions. First, a 30 cog will
usually work with all Shimano road derailleurs. There may be
some frame configurations that have problems.

Second, do you need that low a gear? That depends on your
fitness level. Some people can climb the steepest hills in a
39/23 combination. You need to decide for yourself how low a
gear you need for your hills. If you past your prime or
overweight, low gears can really help you survive. Younger,
fitter folks can usually just train harder.

Remember though, if

Quoted message said:

you go to the 30 teeth you will need a long cage
deraileur.

Andres

Thanks for the feedback. Now can you edify me a bit further
please. What exactly are you refering to when you say "long
cage deraileur"? I (mistakenly ?) thought that this was a
term that refered to the front deraileur. mto

andres muro said:

Go to Sheldon's special. The only reason to go into a
close spaced cassette is if you train with very fast
groups and if you race. Sometimes, when there are slight
increases and decreases in speed, you may need a one tooth
difference to best adapt to the speed change. If this is
not the case, the century special is perfect. Also, if you
find yourself in a potential racing situation in flats or
rolling hills, you can swap cassettes before the race.
With 8 and 9 speed cassettes there are usually no great
gaps anyway. Remember though, if you go to the 30 teeth
you will need a long cage deraileur.

Thanks for the endorsement, but it's not correct that
this cassette requires a long-cage derailer, unless you
insist on being able to ride in the 39/13 without a bit
of chain droop.

If someone is going to be buying a new derailer anyway, I do
recommend long cage, but for installation on an existing
bike, it is not necessary to change the derailer.

Sheldon "Century Special" Brown +-------------------------------------------------------
+
| A man's ethical behavior should be based effectually | on
| sympathy, education, and social ties and needs; | no
| religious basis is necessary. | Man would indeed be in a
| poor way if he had to be | restrained by fear of
| punishment and hope of reward | after death. --Albert
| Einstein |
+-------------------------------------------------------+
Harris Cyclery, West Newton, Massachusetts Phone 617-244-
9772 FAX 617-244-1041 harriscyclery.comharriscyclery.comOpen ↗ Hard-to-find
parts shipped Worldwide captainbike.comcaptainbike.comOpen ↗
sheldonbrown.comsheldonbrown.comOpen ↗

mtoverton said:

Remember though, if

Quoted message said:

you go to the 30 teeth you will need a long cage
deraileur.

Andres

Thanks for the feedback. Now can you edify me a bit
further please. What exactly are you refering to when you
say "long cage deraileur"? I (mistakenly ?) thought that
this was a term that refered to the front deraileur. mto

No, n this case it refers to the back changer. A long-cage
derailleur is one where the jockey wheels are further apart
from each other (so the cage containg the jockey wheels
becomes "longer"😉. The lower jockey wheel comes swings
closer to the ground.

The result is that the the derailleur can collect a greater
amount of chain, when using smallest chainring with smallest
(or next smallest) cassette cog. When it's time to go big
ring - big cassette cog, the cage will pay out more chain.

Using a wide range of sizes on front chainrings and back
cassette cogs, a standard (short-cage) derailleur will
often not be capable of collecting the large amount of
chain slack, so in the small-small gear, the chain will sag
quite severely.

That said, there are *front* derailleurs with long cages,
specifically designed to handle very small chainrings, e.g.
in triples. Or at least there were. I don't know what the
minimum size ring is, that can be handled by a standard
front derailleur nowadays. A search in this NG will almost
certainly give you an answer - this has been discussed a
couple of times these past 2-3 months.

iHTH /Robert

Agree. The dilema is if that if you set the chain to go into the 39-13
It'll be too short to go into the 52-30. I had something like this
happen to me thinking I'd never go large ring-large cog. I was
climbing a hill on the large chainring and kept shifting down
and.......:-(

Andres

Sheldon Brown <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

andres muro wrote:

Quoted message said:

Thanks for the endorsement, but it's not correct that
this cassette requires a long-cage derailer, unless you
insist on being able to ride in the 39/13 without a bit
of chain droop.

If someone is going to be buying a new derailer anyway, I
do recommend long cage, but for installation on an
existing bike, it is not necessary to change the derailer.

Sheldon "Century Special" Brown +-------------------------------------------------------
+
| A man's ethical behavior should be based effectually |
| on sympathy, education, and social ties and needs; | no
| religious basis is necessary. | Man would indeed be in
| a poor way if he had to be | restrained by fear of
| punishment and hope of reward | after death. --Albert
| Einstein |
+-------------------------------------------------------+
Harris Cyclery, West Newton, Massachusetts Phone 617-244-
9772 FAX 617-244-1041 harriscyclery.comharriscyclery.comOpen ↗ Hard-to-
find parts shipped Worldwide captainbike.comcaptainbike.comOpen ↗
sheldonbrown.comsheldonbrown.comOpen ↗

andres muro said:

Agree. The dilema is if that if you set the chain to go
into the 39-13 It'll be too short to go into the 52-30.

You should never do that!

The chain should always be long enough to work with the
large large combination, because if it isn't, Murphy's law
says you will try to shift into it and it is likely to
damage something.

However, there's no serious consequence to having the chain
too long and accidentally shifting into the small/small
gear. All that will happen is that the chain will droop.

You'll also get accellerated chain and sprocket wear if you
make a habit of using the small/small combinations, but
that's so no matter what derailer and chain length you use.

The issue of chain too long vs chain too short is not
symmetrical. The consequences of too short are much more
drastic than too long.

Sheldon "Longer Is Better" Brown +-------------------------------------
+
| Only those who attempt the absurd | will achieve the
| impossible. | --Albert Einstein |
+-------------------------------------+ Harris Cyclery, West
Newton, Massachusetts Phone 617-244-9772 FAX 617-244-1041
harriscyclery.comharriscyclery.comOpen ↗ Hard-to-find parts shipped
Worldwide captainbike.comcaptainbike.comOpen ↗ sheldonbrown.comsheldonbrown.comOpen ↗