Update on Matthew Rex accident

Bean Long said:

Jongewaard, 27, who is the current Australian cross country mountain
bike champion and has also ridden on the road in the Tour Down Under,
will appear in court next week charged with dangerous driving, failing
to stop after an accident, and failing to render assistance.

Ran over his mate and did a runner!
<boggle>

Theo

On 2007-02-13, Theo Bekkers (aka Bruce)
was almost, but not quite, entirely unlike tea:

Quoted message said:

Bean Long said:

Jongewaard, 27, who is the current Australian cross country mountain
bike champion and has also ridden on the road in the Tour Down Under,
will appear in court next week charged with dangerous driving, failing
to stop after an accident, and failing to render assistance.

Ran over his mate and did a runner!
<boggle>

It just sounds so bizaare we must be missing info. That's why *I*
haven't been baying for blood.

--
TimC
Beware of bugs in the above program. I proved it correct,
I did not try it. --- D. E. Knuth

In aus.bicycle on Tue, 13 Feb 2007 18:25:42 +1100

TimC said:

On 2007-02-13, Theo Bekkers (aka Bruce)
was almost, but not quite, entirely unlike tea:

Quoted message said:

Bean Long said:

Jongewaard, 27, who is the current Australian cross country mountain
bike champion and has also ridden on the road in the Tour Down Under,
will appear in court next week charged with dangerous driving, failing
to stop after an accident, and failing to render assistance.

Ran over his mate and did a runner!
<boggle>

It just sounds so bizaare we must be missing info. That's why *I*
haven't been baying for blood.

But if the name hadn't been mentioned.... If it was "a motorist"
rather than "a famous bike rider what was driving a car"?

Another report said failed to stop and then abandoned the vehicle.

What was that lawyers name again, Eugene someone wasn't it?

Must be something in the Adelaide water.

Zebee

Bean Long said:

Jongewaard is due to appear in the Adelaide Magistrates court next week.

is it just me or does this seem 10 fold worst than it might normally be becuase it was a cyclist that did this ?? And then still didn't render assistance ??

Gee thanks mate.....

On 2007-02-13, Zebee Johnstone (aka Bruce)
was almost, but not quite, entirely unlike tea:

Quoted message said:

In aus.bicycle on Tue, 13 Feb 2007 18:25:42 +1100

TimC said:

On 2007-02-13, Theo Bekkers (aka Bruce)
was almost, but not quite, entirely unlike tea:

Quoted message said:

Bean Long wrote:

> Jongewaard, 27, who is the current Australian cross country mountain
> bike champion and has also ridden on the road in the Tour Down Under,
> will appear in court next week charged with dangerous driving, failing
> to stop after an accident, and failing to render assistance.

Ran over his mate and did a runner!
<boggle>

It just sounds so bizaare we must be missing info. That's why *I*
haven't been baying for blood.

But if the name hadn't been mentioned.... If it was "a motorist"
rather than "a famous bike rider what was driving a car"?

Yes. I could easily believe a man was charged for hit and run
offenses, and police were waiting for blood samples even after
returning a negative breath test. Hell, that would even make sense if
there was a several hour gap between the collision and the driver
being caught. It makes sense, because, unfortunately, it's all too
common.

But a friend of the rider? Who then dumped his (tracable) car? It
just doesn't make sense. Course, that was my opinion after reading
just the skynews article. Now a couple more have come out and said
the same thing.

--
TimC
A Chemist who falls in acid is absorbed in work.

Zebee Johnstone said:

But if the name hadn't been mentioned.... If it was "a motorist"
rather than "a famous bike rider what was driving a car"?

But as this was one of his team-mates we all know that there was assumedly
no malice and Jongewaard is no doubt going through a personal sheer hell
right now

Quoted message said:

Another report said failed to stop and then abandoned the vehicle.

We don't know enough. Police investigations, and any court case with
witnesses and evidence, will tell us the real story, but that may be months
off.

Another news report gives a different slant, depending on how much you
believe it:
http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,20867,21220554-5006787,00.html
Jongewaard found at his hotel room and unaware he had hit Rex.

Quoted message said:

What was that lawyers name again, Eugene someone wasn't it?

Must be something in the Adelaide water.

Hardly a comparable situation really.

--
Cheers
Peter

~~~ ~ _@
~~ ~ _- \,
~~ (*)/ (*)

In aus.bicycle on Tue, 13 Feb 2007 22:37:42 +1100

Peter Signorini said:

Zebee Johnstone said:

But if the name hadn't been mentioned.... If it was "a motorist"
rather than "a famous bike rider what was driving a car"?

But as this was one of his team-mates we all know that there was assumedly
no malice and Jongewaard is no doubt going through a personal sheer hell
right now

Yes, that's the point.

"one of us" and so no baying for blood.

But a stranger, the presumption is guilt and often intent. That's
what I find funny.

Zebee

"Peter Signorini" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Another report said failed to stop and then abandoned the vehicle.

We don't know enough. Police investigations, and any court case with
witnesses and evidence, will tell us the real story, but that may be
months off.

The news stories aren't capturing the total horror of it, if the rumours
circulating here in Adelaide are true... (which I won't repeat here)

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

What was that lawyers name again, Eugene someone wasn't it?

Must be something in the Adelaide water.

Hardly a comparable situation really.

Really? As a result of the Kapunda Royal commission, penalties for failing
to stop and other offences were drastically increased... and look what he's
been charged with.

He was already in trouble. See:
http://www.news.com.au/story/0,23599,20984032-2,00.html

Not nice for all concerned. I just hope Rex recovers :-(

Zebee Johnstone said:

Yes, that's the point.

"one of us" and so no baying for blood.

But a stranger, the presumption is guilt and often intent. That's
what I find funny.

But if there'd been a headline like "Wife in car hits husband on bike", there would be a similar lack of baying for blood and instead a similar "WTF is going on here?" type feeling.

On 2007-02-13, Gemma_k (aka Bruce)
was almost, but not quite, entirely unlike tea:

Quoted message said:

He was already in trouble. See:
http://www.news.com.au/story/0,23599,20984032-2,00.html

Phil Anderson!?

Jobie seems to under a little bit of stress.

--
TimC
cpu time/usefulness ratio too high -- core dumped.

Gemma_k said:

Not nice for all concerned. I just hope Rex recovers :-(

By the media accounts the incident sounds like a absolute clusterfcuk. Still waiting to see if CA will issue a media release or they will leave the legalities to the relevant authorities or public opinion. There's no way to convincingly "spin" whatever happened other than to simply come clean, mea culpa, if the [censored] fits, wear it, etc etc.

As for that "other" continuing case in South Australia, it was still in the District Court during the last fortnight, to get the conspiracy charge dropped against Craig McGee, although this action failed in the Magistrates Court.

More to come folks.

TimC said:

On 2007-02-13, Zebee Johnstone (aka Bruce)
was almost, but not quite, entirely unlike tea:

Quoted message said:

In aus.bicycle on Tue, 13 Feb 2007 18:25:42 +1100

TimC said:

On 2007-02-13, Theo Bekkers (aka Bruce)
was almost, but not quite, entirely unlike tea:
> Bean Long wrote:
>
>> Jongewaard, 27, who is the current Australian cross country mountain
>> bike champion and has also ridden on the road in the Tour Down Under,
>> will appear in court next week charged with dangerous driving, failing
>> to stop after an accident, and failing to render assistance.
>
> Ran over his mate and did a runner!
> <boggle>

It just sounds so bizaare we must be missing info. That's why *I*
haven't been baying for blood.

But if the name hadn't been mentioned.... If it was "a motorist"
rather than "a famous bike rider what was driving a car"?

Yes. I could easily believe a man was charged for hit and run
offenses, and police were waiting for blood samples even after
returning a negative breath test. Hell, that would even make sense if
there was a several hour gap between the collision and the driver
being caught. It makes sense, because, unfortunately, it's all too
common.

But a friend of the rider? Who then dumped his (tracable) car? It
just doesn't make sense. Course, that was my opinion after reading
just the skynews article. Now a couple more have come out and said
the same thing.

What he said. It doesn't make sense and it's really scary
and if all is proven true then it says something very
worrying about human nature/psyche and the dangers of
letting everyone drive cars.

Tam

Zebee Johnstone said:

In aus.bicycle on Tue, 13 Feb 2007 22:37:42 +1100

Peter Signorini said:

Zebee Johnstone said:

But if the name hadn't been mentioned.... If it was "a motorist"
rather than "a famous bike rider what was driving a car"?

But as this was one of his team-mates we all know that there was assumedly
no malice and Jongewaard is no doubt going through a personal sheer hell
right now

Yes, that's the point.

"one of us" and so no baying for blood.

But a stranger, the presumption is guilt and often intent. That's
what I find funny.

I see your point, but I don't know if we're identifying him
as one of us and THEREFORE being forgiving or presuming
innocence... I think it might be because he's a friend of
the involved. I think everyone would be just as confused and
assuming innocence if a rider's non-cycling friend/relative
had hit them. The concern is because it was a cyclist who
"should know better" but I don't think that's where the
presumption of innocence comes from. It's just hard to
accept that a friend could run me over (though we know that
some people have driven over their own kids in driveways).

Tam

quote='Tamyka Bell'Zebee Johnstone said:

In aus.bicycle on Tue, 13 Feb 2007 22:37:42 +1100

Peter Signorini said:

Zebee Johnstone said:

But if the name hadn't been mentioned.... If it was "a motorist"
rather than "a famous bike rider what was driving a car"?

But as this was one of his team-mates we all know that there was assumedly
no malice and Jongewaard is no doubt going through a personal sheer hell
right now

Yes, that's the point.

"one of us" and so no baying for blood.

But a stranger, the presumption is guilt and often intent. That's
what I find funny.

I see your point, but I don't know if we're identifying him
as one of us and THEREFORE being forgiving or presuming
innocence... I think it might be because he's a friend of
the involved. I think everyone would be just as confused and
assuming innocence if a rider's non-cycling friend/relative
had hit them. The concern is because it was a cyclist who
"should know better" but I don't think that's where the
presumption of innocence comes from. It's just hard to
accept that a friend could run me over (though we know that
some people have driven over their own kids in driveways).

Tam[/QUOTE]
I/we don't know the facts.

On the news reports, I can construct a scenario where a [censored] Jongewaard gets into his car, hits Rex, callously does not stop and render assistance, abandons car, hides away in hotel room.

OR I can construct another scenario where a [censored] Rex gets on his bike while a sober Jongewaard gets into his car to drive back to their accommodation, Rex swerves into the side of Jongewaard's car, Jongewaard does not notice Rex, hears a slight noise but thinks a rock has bounced up and hit the body of his car, drives back to accommodation, parks car.

'Police have charged Jongewaard' means that he has been charged, NOT that it has been proved that he did anything wrong. That happens in court or if Jongewaard pleads guilty by paying fines in relation to the offences he has been charged with.

And Jongewaards previous bad behaviour in head butting a parking inspector (which I'm sure we've all contemplated doing at one time or another) is what courts call similar fact evidence which may generally be admissible only if the probative value outweighs the likely prejudicial effect. In other words, just because someone whacked a parking inspector, it does not mean that he ran over his mate.

The only thing that can be said with any real certainty is that this is a very sad matter.

SteveA

In aus.bicycle on Wed, 14 Feb 2007 11:36:36 +1000

Tamyka Bell said:

I see your point, but I don't know if we're identifying him
as one of us and THEREFORE being forgiving or presuming
innocence... I think it might be because he's a friend of
the involved. I think everyone would be just as confused and
assuming innocence if a rider's non-cycling friend/relative
had hit them. The concern is because it was a cyclist who
"should know better" but I don't think that's where the
presumption of innocence comes from. It's just hard to
accept that a friend could run me over (though we know that
some people have driven over their own kids in driveways).

Which makes the current speculation on possibilities- that it was some
kind of silly prank gone wrong - even worse.

Because if that *is* the reason the rider was hit and the driver
carried on without realising the problem, then it is no real
difference between this and any hoon swerving to scare a cyclist.

And, I think, worse than someone not fully concentrating because it
was deliberate.

Distraction can happen to pretty well anyone, no matter how skilled or
caring. Nature of the human being. But deliberate use of a vehicle
to attack because it seemed like a good idea at the time...

I think that probably is drawing a bit of a long bow, I'd have thought
it more likely that the driver was distracted or not paying proper
attention and either drifted into the rider or in some other way
caused the rider to fall, and didn't even realise it had happened.

Which is, again, no different to any other distracted or careless
driver.

Although it is likely that he'll suffer more consequences than other
distracted or careless drivers if he is convicted of an offence that
makes it impossible for him to continue an international career.

Zebee

SteveA said:

I
OR I can construct another scenario where a [censored] Rex gets on his bike while a sober Jongewaard gets into his car to drive back to their accommodation, Rex swerves into the side of Jongewaard's car, Jongewaard does not notice Rex, hears a slight noise but thinks a rock has bounced up and hit the body of his car, drives back to accommodation, parks car.

SteveA

...........although would appear highly unlikely given the damage to the car. If the picture of a car shown in the Hun is correctly that of the car involved, then very hard to imagine the latter scenario.

Pat

vaudegiant said:

...........although would appear highly unlikely given the damage to the car. If the picture of a car shown in the Hun is correctly that of the car involved, then very hard to imagine the latter scenario.

Pat

I haven't seen the pic in the Hun. Maybe it just suggests a variation on the scenarios - bigger bang but didn't hear it because car stereo was turned up loud?

I could have also added the prank gone wrong scenario with and without alcohol for each of the parties.

I dunno. Without the full facts, it's all still conjecture.

SteveA

SteveA said:

I haven't seen the pic in the Hun. Maybe it just suggests a variation on the scenarios - bigger bang but didn't hear it because car stereo was turned up loud?

I could have also added the prank gone wrong scenario with and without alcohol for each of the parties.

I dunno. Without the full facts, it's all still conjecture.

SteveA

Smashed front quarter panel and windscreen..........

Pat

vaudegiant said:

Smashed front quarter panel and windscreen..........

Pat

A bit hard to ignore. Would be very hard to argue that, as the driver, you were not aware that you had hit something.

Still, I'll be very interested to hear all the facts (if anyone really knows or anyone can recall what happened).

SteveA