Update on helmets

Chuckabutty said:

One thing I find lacking in helmets is a better visor to keep the sun out of our eyes particularly during sunrise and sunset. That could go a long way to increasing safety while wearing a helmet. I had to improvise with a chunk of rubber from an inner tube, hot glued to the tip of my visor. It doesn't take much, only about 3/4" but it does a heck of a job. It's not pretty but it's practical, and could save me from crashing. Riding with one hand to shade my eyes isn't a good thing..

Wear sunglasses and or a cycling cap. I make it a point to wear sunglasses while riding all the time. Having a bug fly in your eye during a downhill is no fun, neither is being blinded by the sun.

I haven't read the paper or the other papers / articles offered as rebuttals, but I do have my own anecdotal experience.

I have broken 3 helmets in crashes. One of those times I went to hospital because other things were broken as well. Would I have died without a helmet - who knows? I do know those helmets saved me from even worse injuries and I would never ride without one.

I also commute to work - the numbers of people I see without helmets astounds me. I'm thinking those folks are people who have never crashed or been hit by a car (3 times for me).

Just wear a helmet people.

Uawadall said:

Wear sunglasses and or a cycling cap. I make it a point to wear sunglasses while riding all the time. Having a bug fly in your eye during a downhill is no fun, neither is being blinded by the sun.

I wear sunglasses all the time when riding. They don't do anything for the sun when it's just above the horizon, rising or setting. In the mornings, I ride east for a couple of miles; same in the evening when I ride west. A cap under my helmet would trap the heat. I've seen some kind of device that looks like a toilet seat that goes over the helmet, and it's butt ugly. My little bit of inner tube does a great job. Perhaps a clip on version would be nice if such a thing was made.

BrianNystrom said:

Seriously, you can't figure out why? It couldn't be more simple!

When someone crashes and they don't have an injury that requires a trip to a hospital, IT NEVER GETS REPORTED. This is so obvious that if you can't see this, it calls into questions all of your "research" and conclusions.

Even if someone wanted to report a non-injury, where could they do that? It's not as if you can call a hospital or police station and tell them "I crashed my bike but I'm OK" and ask them to file a report. They've got much more important things to do and they'll probably just think you're insane for calling.

Helmets are excellent at preventing lacerations, abrasions and contusions that would otherwise require medical treatment. It doesn't take research or data to understand this, it just takes common sense.

Really Brian, you don't understand that IF helmets worked other than saving you from contusions and lacerations that you'd see a statistical blip where suddenly there were fewer bicycle deaths per pedestrian death. And unfortunately there isn't.

If you wear a helmet to prevent abrasions that is all well and fine but please remember that what we're hearing is "Helmet save lives", and that doesn't seem to be the case if the statistics are closely examined.

Chuckabutty said:

How did the various states which mandate helmet use for children (and recommend them for adults), arrive at their conclusion that helmets save lives? And whose 'paper' should we trust more, theirs or yours?

One thing I find lacking in helmets is a better visor to keep the sun out of our eyes particularly during sunrise and sunset. That could go a long way to increasing safety while wearing a helmet. I had to improvise with a chunk of rubber from an inner tube, hot glued to the tip of my visor. It doesn't take much, only about 3/4" but it does a heck of a job. It's not pretty but it's practical, and could save me from crashing. Riding with one hand to shade my eyes isn't a good thing.

I think a chunk of that cash is due to the manufacturer's cost of liability insurance. According to a motorcycle magazine article from years ago, half the cost of a helmet is the maker's liability insurance. That was when a decent helmet cost around $500.

Miracles do happen but they are extremely rare. It's not the government you have to convince, it's the drivers.

I'm trying to figure that one out. Let's say a business has employees within a ten-mile radius. It moves closer to one side of that circle. What about the people who are now twenty miles away? And it's not cheap to move a business for the sake of a few cyclists.

A cyclist utopia!

Although the head may be the most vulnerable part of the body, people die from other bodily injuries. A rider may have the best helmet in the world, yet die from an injury to another part of the body. I know motorcycles go faster than bicycles, but so many riders who were wearing helmets when they crashed, died from other causes.

As for me, if I have to choose between helmet and a baseball cap, I'll take the helmet even if is a medium priced one.

They do NOT use "papers". They use rumors. Can you name ONE helmet manufacturer that claims that helmets save lives?

The problem in the San Francisco bay area is NOT companies having employees in a 10 mile radius. The majority of high tech businesses are situate in Silicon Valley and San Francisco. They draw employees every single day from as far away as Sacramento and Santa Rosa in the East and North and as far away as Salinas to the South.

Were I willing to take a job in Silicon Valley I could get one in a week. And it would be only 25-30 miles commute. But the road commute time would be 3 hours in each direction with no traffic problems. Just to go to my doctor in Palo Alto is a two hour commute. I have appointments every six months with my neurologist and each time the trip is 5 minutes longer. This has been going on for 5 years. And this is not on a heavy commute route.

Yojimbo_ said:

I haven't read the paper or the other papers / articles offered as rebuttals, but I do have my own anecdotal experience.

I have broken 3 helmets in crashes. One of those times I went to hospital because other things were broken as well. Would I have died without a helmet - who knows? I do know those helmets saved me from even worse injuries and I would never ride without one.

I also commute to work - the numbers of people I see without helmets astounds me. I'm thinking those folks are people who have never crashed or been hit by a car (3 times for me).

Just wear a helmet people.

Well, wearing a helmet is and should be your personal decision. The problem is the Daddy state stepping in and saying that your kids can't ride without a helmet without a shred of evidence that they help anything other than abrasions and contusions. Now that would be enough for me to put helmets on my kids and buying new ones every year for a decade as they grew. But other people cannot afford that.

cyclintom said:

Well, wearing a helmet is and should be your personal decision. The problem is the Daddy state stepping in and saying that your kids can't ride without a helmet without a shred of evidence that they help anything other than abrasions and contusions. Now that would be enough for me to put helmets on my kids and buying new ones every year for a decade as they grew. But other people cannot afford that.

Stop with that "can't afford it" Mantra. you can get a kids helmet for 10-15 bucks. hell, I sent you a link to an adult helmet for 20.

As a kid, me and my siblings basically used scrap bikes. No one had their own and we would just take parts of one to fix another when it broke. We never wore helmets, but then again, I cant remember any crashes. Then again, we only rode in the backyard. If a parent lets their child ride without a helmet in the backyard, so be it, thats on them. If a parent lets a kid ride without a helmet in traffic, they are being extremely negligent. The amount of kids I see riding towards incoming traffic, random swings across the street, headphones on, etc.... Has me question the sanity of some parent out here

Uawadall said:

Stop with that "can't afford it" Mantra. you can get a kids helmet for 10-15 bucks. hell, I sent you a link to an adult helmet for 20.

As a kid, me and my siblings basically used scrap bikes. No one had their own and we would just take parts of one to fix another when it broke. We never wore helmets, but then again, I cant remember any crashes. Then again, we only rode in the backyard. If a parent lets their child ride without a helmet in the backyard, so be it, thats on them. If a parent lets a kid ride without a helmet in traffic, they are being extremely negligent. The amount of kids I see riding towards incoming traffic, random swings across the street, headphones on, etc.... Has me question the sanity of some parent out here

1. How nice of you to decided what other people can afford or not.
2. Because children are continuously growing until at least 18 they usually need new helmets every year. Another expenditure you apparently think you can tell other what they can and cannot afford.
3, In case you are unaware of is the helmet standard for children is EXACTLY the same standard for adult helmets meaning that they are wearing a rock on their heads.
4. Why don't you wear a helmet if you like and not argue with others whether it works or not? Are you feeling that you may be a sucker or something?
5. All of the statistics surrounding bicycle deaths are preposterous. If you are hit by a car traveling 40 mph you would be killed by traumatic injuries in your entire body. To say that "three quarters of all bicycle deaths involve head injuries" is the most underhanded pack of lies possible. Likewise, saying that most bicycle deaths occur to those not wearing helmets is equally stupid - since most knowledgeable riders wear helmets as a part of "the kit" their very experience makes them far less likely to place themselves in hazardous positions in traffic such as sweeping out of driveways into oncoming traffic or riding on the wrong side of the road. Any competent statistician would die laughing at what passes as the arguments for helmets.

yawn.

Froze said:

yawn.

Exactly....

Cyclintom, You are telling me someone can afford bikes for an aging kid, but not a helmet? You have got to be kidding me. To get a cheapo bike helmet, lets say 20 dollars and you get a person one every year..lets say from 10 to 18.. That is 160 bucks...Are you telling me anyone but the poorest of poor can't afford 160 bucks to keep a head intact over the course of 8 years???If they skip every other year, thats 80 bucks, get real...

I'm aware that kids have the same helmet standard as adults, but it is an adults job to keep their kids safe and protect them from their own stupidity. I shouldn't even response anymore, but this is just ridiculous. I've crashed twice, but didn't hit my had either times. Mild crashes, but took all of the skin off my knee. Took weeks for the skin to heal. But yeah, i'm having big buyers remorse from protecting my brain.

yawn..

cyclintom said:

They do NOT use "papers". They use rumors. Can you name ONE helmet manufacturer that claims that helmets save lives?

Rumors? Can you back that up? And can you name ONE helmet manufacturer whose helmets haven't saved lives? Sure, go ahead and name all of them if that makes you happy, but that would just be conjecture.

Quoted post said:

The problem in the San Francisco bay area is NOT companies having employees in a 10 mile radius. The majority of high tech businesses are situate in Silicon Valley and San Francisco. They draw employees every single day from as far away as Sacramento and Santa Rosa in the East and North and as far away as Salinas to the South.

You said the companies should move closer to where their bicyclist employees live. That is a preposterous idea, apart from being prohibitively expensive. And if their cyclist employees don't like having to ride so far, let them take other means of transport. That's the way the real world is!

Quoted post said:

Were I willing to take a job in Silicon Valley I could get one in a week. And it would be only 25-30 miles commute. But the road commute time would be 3 hours in each direction with no traffic problems. Just to go to my doctor in Palo Alto is a two hour commute. I have appointments every six months with my neurologist and each time the trip is 5 minutes longer. This has been going on for 5 years. And this is not on a heavy commute route.

So move to a location that's more convenient to you. You go to work; your work doesn't come to you. Find a neurologist that's closer to your home. The world isn't going to change to suit you.

cyclintom said:

5. All of the statistics surrounding bicycle deaths are preposterous.

Except for yours. Your statistics are superior to all others.

Quoted post said:

Any competent statistician would die laughing at what passes as the arguments for helmets.

And your statistics are superior to all others because you said so. 🙄

Uawadall said:

Exactly....

Cyclintom, You are telling me someone can afford bikes for an aging kid, but not a helmet? You have got to be kidding me. To get a cheapo bike helmet, lets say 20 dollars and you get a person one every year..lets say from 10 to 18.. That is 160 bucks...Are you telling me anyone but the poorest of poor can't afford 160 bucks to keep a head intact over the course of 8 years???If they skip every other year, thats 80 bucks, get real...

I'm aware that kids have the same helmet standard as adults, but it is an adults job to keep their kids safe and protect them from their own stupidity. I shouldn't even response anymore, but this is just ridiculous. I've crashed twice, but didn't hit my had either times. Mild crashes, but took all of the skin off my knee. Took weeks for the skin to heal. But yeah, i'm having big buyers remorse from protecting my brain.

yawn..

For one thing I am spending a lot of money for three descent bikes for my daughter on social security. She doesn't work and her husband is a teacher and they have to purchase helmets for them. These 3 children are adopted or fostered and treated as adopted so I can't skimp on buying the bikes. My daughter and her husband can barely afford to feed these kids on his income and they are vegans. So she has to spend a lot of time planning meals.

If you are volunteering to buy helmets each year I can let them know.

Chuckabutty said:

Rumors? Can you back that up? And can you name ONE helmet manufacturer whose helmets haven't saved lives? Sure, go ahead and name all of them if that makes you happy, but that would just be conjecture.

You said the companies should move closer to where their bicyclist employees live. That is a preposterous idea, apart from being prohibitively expensive. And if their cyclist employees don't like having to ride so far, let them take other means of transport. That's the way the real world is!

So move to a location that's more convenient to you. You go to work; your work doesn't come to you. Find a neurologist that's closer to your home. The world isn't going to change to suit you.

Not ONE helmet manufacturer can claim that they helmets save lives and not one of them do. Do you suppose they are crazy and would make claims that can be proven false in a court? Unlike your easy claims in a court they have to show actual evidence and my study among other shows that they do not. You don't think so? Then show us an advertisement by any helmet company saying that they save lives.

Exactly where do you live where you believe you can "move to near your work"? At my last just job I was making a quarter of a million dollars a year and I would DARE move and be exposed to the increased property tax bill. Today those state property taxed would be more than I make in a year. Do you know anything at all about buying a home?

The reason there are so many homeless people in California is because they had thought processes like yours. Now they are shuttling from park to park in Winnebagos and campers stuck because they can only stay one week in each camp site per park. Even in this little town mobile home spaces go for over $1,600/mth.

You seem to have all of the answers when you don't even have any of the questions.

Chuckabutty said:

Except for yours. Your statistics are superior to all others.

And your statistics are superior to all others because you said so. 🙄

Sorry but what is your training in statistical analysis? My statistics are the actual numbers and not that stuff like "87% of fatalities were not wearing helmets and 79% had alcohol or drugs in their system."

If you don't understand the meaning of those sorts of statistics exactly why would you reach the conclusions that helmets save lives?

"You're mean so I don't like you and I'm not going to believe you" is rather childish.