%$!#-&*@

Tamyka Bell said:

hippy said:

DaveB said:

Come on Tam, don't you even know the first name of your betrothed?

Doh! Don't remind her.. I'm not out of the country yet! :P

*slap*

Ow! Damn you have long arms girl!

Quoted message said:

<Tam swims bikes runs away>

<hippy rides alongside, wondering why Tam chose such a difficult escape>

:P

hippy

On Thu, 14 Apr 2005 at 00:21 GMT, hippy (aka Bruce)
was almost, but not quite, entirely unlike tea:

Quoted message said:

Tamyka Bell said:

<Tam swims bikes runs away>

<hippy rides alongside, wondering why Tam chose such a difficult escape>

I see you have that swim bike thingy.

--
TimC -- http://astronomy.swin.edu.au/staff/tconnors/
A mouse is a device used to focus xterms.

Carl Brewer said:

On Wed, 13 Apr 2005 19:54:37 +1000, hippy <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

Carl, I know you keep telling me to go into every race with a goal to
meet, and I typically do, but winning is still the only thing I'm
interested in. Win or lose. Win or lose. Win or lose. :S :P
It's a punishing schedule.

That's becase, for you at Glenvale, in the grade you're in,
that's an appropriate and realistic goal.

Ha ha ha now hippy won't be able to leave the country as his head won't
fit through the plane doors.

Tam

Carl Brewer said:

On Wed, 13 Apr 2005 11:22:11 +1000, Tamyka Bell <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

>It's not really practical though, because of:
>1 wetsuits for cold-weather races, it'd be stupid to have to put them ON
>as part of the race

Why not? It's no dumber than riding 180km in bathers and
wet shoes.

Who does that?

Do you stop and dry your feet before you get into your
riding shoes? Do yuo get any sand etc out from
between your toes? Do you give your crotch a decent toweling
before jumping on a bike and put on a good set of knicks? All the
tri's I have seen have been riding in what looks a lot like bathers
from a distance.

*ouch*

I dry my feet on the towel that all my gear is laid out on, unless it's
a shortcourse, then why would I bother. There's usually more grass than
sand, as transition is on a grassed area. I don't put on a good set of
knicks for 40km or less, my race suit has a small inbuilt chamois that
is softer and chafes less than a standard set of knicks anyway (which I
find too bulky, but that's probably a girl thing). For ironman, just
about everyone puts on a good set of knicks. Some people do shorter
stuff in swimsuits. I do shortcourse in just bathers when I'm too lazy
to dig out a race suit. It's not a problem for 20km. I personally find
that all knicks are a bit wide and I end up with chafing from the edges
of the chamois, so I prefer tri shorts/race suit.

Quoted message said:

Given that it takes bugger-all time to put on one of those
longjohn wetsuits, and everyone would have the same

How do you figure that? Most people take well over 5 minutes!

Quoted message said:

issue, what's the problem? Unless you have a vested
interest in tri's always finishing in a run? 🙂

I like it, because I think "Thank God I don't have to cycle anymore,
woohoo I get to run!" But if we were cycling last, I'd be thinking
"Woohoo, done all the fun, now it's time for the hard work." I think
cycle/run can be swapped easily but not a fan of swim out of sequence.
Also in hot weather, there would be a risk of people going into shock
upon hitting the water.

I'm actually doing a tri in a few weeks that is run/swim/bike/swim/run;
in an unheated pool, short course... my swim times will be appalling!

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

get reduced to a lot lower risk of those problems. You have to
supervise the whole swim course anyway, and if there's
a swimmer in difficulty I'd much rather pull them out when they're
not surrounded by 1,000 other swimmers. I'll be able to see them
for starters!

The swim staff would have to be in the water for about twice as long
though. In addition, I'm impressed that you got to be in a boat, because
at most events they're on boards.

I drove boats for SLSV for years, so my observation is
self selecting 🙂

I think that's a keyphrase of yours, isn't it :P

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Plus, if you have to think about a swim leg while running or riding,
wouldn't that make it more interesting?

The people who win, only think about the leg they're doing RIGHT NOW.

I find that hard to believe, unless it's the last leg.

Nope. You have a race plan before you start, and you don't think about
anything else until you start. Cycle plan "go this pace, eat this food,
drink this fluid. If it's hotter do this. If it's colder do this. If it
hurts more than expected, do this." The next leg starts once you're
heading into transition. There's no point.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Do tris have roaming officials? Do they enforce the rules on the
spot by dragging anyone they see cheating?

Yep, there's penalty boxes you have to go and stand in for 5 minutes.
The officials hoon around on a motorbike. TA rules even have drafting
distances for the motorbike specified!

That's not suprising, you can't draft (although it happens)
support vehicles etc in road racing.

(Yeah, it's not surprising in road racing... but you have to admit it's
a bit surprising in triathlon...)

Tam

warrwych said:

Carl Brewer said:

Quoted message said:

The people who win, only think about the leg they're doing RIGHT NOW.

I find that hard to believe, unless it's the last leg.
.

totally agree Carl. In my duathlon days/daze (coff coff) during the
first run, all I could think about was getting thru it and hopping on
the bike so I could catch the shpeedshtars who had just zipped away
from me. When I got on the bike I all could think about was 1) catching
and passing those runnergals 2) whilst saving enough in my legs to be
able to keep them away from me during the last run 3) putting as much
distance between them and me so that if I fell in a heap in the final
leg, I still had a chance of getting over the line in front of them.

So I was usually thinking one leg ahead of where I was. Its called
planning and strategy - if you don't have it, you are running on luck
(or talent, which I dont have!!!) only.

--
warrwych

But the fact is, in duathlon, you're racing against yourself. In which
case it doesn't matter what the others are doing. Your top speed is your
top speed. So if you plan it beforehand, allowing for improvements or
stuff ups on the day, then you don't have to worry about it during the
race. At least until transition.

Tam

hippy said:

Tamyka Bell said:

hippy said:

DaveB wrote:
>Come on Tam, don't you even know the first name of your betrothed?

Doh! Don't remind her.. I'm not out of the country yet! :P

*slap*

Ow! Damn you have long arms girl!

No I don't. I have short arms. Pain in the bum for boxing, trapeze, etc.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

<Tam swims bikes runs away>

<hippy rides alongside, wondering why Tam chose such a difficult escape>

:P

hippy

Curses, foiled again!

TimC said:

On Thu, 14 Apr 2005 at 00:21 GMT, hippy (aka Bruce)
was almost, but not quite, entirely unlike tea:

Quoted message said:

Tamyka Bell said:

<Tam swims bikes runs away>

<hippy rides alongside, wondering why Tam chose such a difficult escape>

I see you have that swim bike thingy.

--
TimC -- http://astronomy.swin.edu.au/staff/tconnors/
A mouse is a device used to focus xterms.

They're expensive. It'd be cheaper to fly.

Tam

On Thu, 14 Apr 2005 11:11:12 +1000, Tamyka Bell <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Given that it takes bugger-all time to put on one of those
longjohn wetsuits, and everyone would have the same

How do you figure that? Most people take well over 5 minutes!

I can put on a 5/7mm diving semidry in <5 minutes, and that's
got 4 zips, ankle and neck gussets that have to be folded
so they seal etc. To get into a super-stretchy 2-3mm longjohn
would be a -heck- of a lot faster. It takes me longer to get
ready for a ride than to get into my diving gear.

Quoted message said:

Also in hot weather, there would be a risk of people going into shock
upon hitting the water.

As opposed to them cooking during the run or ride? 🙂

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I drove boats for SLSV for years, so my observation is
self selecting 🙂

I think that's a keyphrase of yours, isn't it :P

🙂

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> Plus, if you have to think about a swim leg while running or riding,
> wouldn't that make it more interesting?

The people who win, only think about the leg they're doing RIGHT NOW.

I find that hard to believe, unless it's the last leg.

Nope. You have a race plan before you start, and you don't think about
anything else until you start. Cycle plan "go this pace, eat this food,
drink this fluid. If it's hotter do this. If it's colder do this. If it
hurts more than expected, do this." The next leg starts once you're
heading into transition. There's no point.

Herein is my problem with tris (and ITTs in general). Where's
the race tactics? There's a whole missing dimension - you're
just racing against your heartrate monitor and a clock.

Surely there'd be times when you would have to think that
now is maybe a good time to hurt my competitors, so that
they'll crack and won't bother to chase me down if I get a
good lead etc. You don't ever think that during a tri? You
just do your thing at MSS and that's it? Having done
a couple (badly!) of ITTs on the bike (and hating them!)
I know that even in that environment there's some tactics
involved (more motivational than anything else really calculating)
when you're catching someone, or getting overtaken it can change
your effort. I'm no TT'er, so I guess I wasn't going as hard as I
could have been so I had some headroom to push harder
when I got overtaken. Urgh, TT's are for training rides ... yuk

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> Do tris have roaming officials? Do they enforce the rules on the
> spot by dragging anyone they see cheating?

Yep, there's penalty boxes you have to go and stand in for 5 minutes.
The officials hoon around on a motorbike. TA rules even have drafting
distances for the motorbike specified!

That's not suprising, you can't draft (although it happens)
support vehicles etc in road racing.

(Yeah, it's not surprising in road racing... but you have to admit it's
a bit surprising in triathlon...)

Not at all if there's cameras or officials traveling with the race,
and the riders know how to suck a tiny bit extra from a
draft 🙂

TimC said:

On Thu, 14 Apr 2005 at 00:21 GMT, hippy (aka Bruce)
was almost, but not quite, entirely unlike tea:

Quoted message said:

Tamyka Bell said:

<Tam swims bikes runs away>

<hippy rides alongside, wondering why Tam chose such a difficult escape>

I see you have that swim bike thingy.

Yes, well, when I saw the post on rising air travel costs and noted my
one-way ticket, I thought it appropriate that I have some means of
escaping the UK..

hippy

Tamyka Bell said:

TimC said:

Quoted message said:

Tamyka Bell wrote:
><Tam swims bikes runs away>

<hippy rides alongside, wondering why Tam chose such a difficult escape>

I see you have that swim bike thingy.

They're expensive. It'd be cheaper to fly.

I know a guy who knows a guy...

hippy

Tamyka Bell said:

hippy said:

Tamyka Bell said:

hippy wrote:
>DaveB wrote:
>>Come on Tam, don't you even know the first name of your betrothed?
>Doh! Don't remind her.. I'm not out of the country yet! :P
*slap*

Ow! Damn you have long arms girl!

No I don't. I have short arms. Pain in the bum for boxing, trapeze, etc.

Bris -> Melb is "long" in my book..

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

<Tam swims bikes runs away>

<hippy rides alongside, wondering why Tam chose such a difficult escape>

Curses, foiled again!

Like a baked potato..

hippy

Tamyka Bell said:

Carl Brewer said:

On Wed, 13 Apr 2005 19:54:37 +1000, hippy <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

Carl, I know you keep telling me to go into every race with a goal to
meet, and I typically do, but winning is still the only thing I'm
interested in. Win or lose. Win or lose. Win or lose. :S :P
It's a punishing schedule.

That's becase, for you at Glenvale, in the grade you're in,
that's an appropriate and realistic goal.

Ha ha ha now hippy won't be able to leave the country as his head won't
fit through the plane doors.

and that wasn't already a problem!? :P

hippy
- really should be heading into the city to get a UK bank account!!

hippy said:

>

Quoted message said:

[*] except for Stu and Jason, they're very very good!

You're just saying that so we don't beat you up.. :P

hippy

meh. let's beat him up anyway.
that way we get more than our money's worth 😄😄😄

<bait> altho Trev was giving him a good caning on Sunday 🙄 </bait>

F"lowly-Dum-grader-rides-away"Dutch

flyingdutch said:

hippy said:

Quoted message said:

except for Stu and Jason, they're very very good!

You're just saying that so we don't beat you up.. :P

hippy

meh. let's beat him up anyway.
that way we get more than our money's worth 😄😄😄

<bait> altho Trev was giving him a good caning on Sunday 🙄

We were working together, believe it or not 🙂 It didn't
pay though, but without taking risks, there are no
rewards!

Carl Brewer said:

On Thu, 14 Apr 2005 11:11:12 +1000, Tamyka Bell <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Given that it takes bugger-all time to put on one of those
longjohn wetsuits, and everyone would have the same

How do you figure that? Most people take well over 5 minutes!

I can put on a 5/7mm diving semidry in <5 minutes, and that's
got 4 zips, ankle and neck gussets that have to be folded
so they seal etc. To get into a super-stretchy 2-3mm longjohn
would be a -heck- of a lot faster. It takes me longer to get
ready for a ride than to get into my diving gear.

Don't the zips make it easier to get into, because you can open it up
more? I have found the tri wetsuits really hard to get into because of
how they are designed, but easy to get out of quickly. The tri wetsuits
tear pretty easily if you yank them on because they're thin, so you have
to cinch them on slowly, and work it up your body.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Also in hot weather, there would be a risk of people going into shock
upon hitting the water.

As opposed to them cooking during the run or ride? 🙂

Good point, but it's unlikely you'll overheat on a ride unless you're a
complete doofus and don't drink. The run is more likely but if you're
well hydrated from the ride it's not a problem. If you go into shock
from a hot-cold change, you're likely to sieze up. From cold-hot you're
likely to go to jelly and just fall over. Easier to be rescued. If
you're well hydrated when you start the run, and don't give yourself a
chance to heat up (i.e. cool water on the body from the very start of
the run leg) it shouldn't be an issue.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I drove boats for SLSV for years, so my observation is
self selecting 🙂

I think that's a keyphrase of yours, isn't it :P

🙂

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

>> Plus, if you have to think about a swim leg while running or riding,
>> wouldn't that make it more interesting?
>
>The people who win, only think about the leg they're doing RIGHT NOW.

I find that hard to believe, unless it's the last leg.

Nope. You have a race plan before you start, and you don't think about
anything else until you start. Cycle plan "go this pace, eat this food,
drink this fluid. If it's hotter do this. If it's colder do this. If it
hurts more than expected, do this." The next leg starts once you're
heading into transition. There's no point.

Herein is my problem with tris (and ITTs in general). Where's
the race tactics? There's a whole missing dimension - you're
just racing against your heartrate monitor and a clock.

Surely there'd be times when you would have to think that
now is maybe a good time to hurt my competitors, so that
they'll crack and won't bother to chase me down if I get a
good lead etc. You don't ever think that during a tri? You
just do your thing at MSS and that's it? Having done
a couple (badly!) of ITTs on the bike (and hating them!)
I know that even in that environment there's some tactics
involved (more motivational than anything else really calculating)
when you're catching someone, or getting overtaken it can change
your effort. I'm no TT'er, so I guess I wasn't going as hard as I
could have been so I had some headroom to push harder
when I got overtaken. Urgh, TT's are for training rides ... yuk

Ha ha. A lot of people try that philosophy. They're the ones who blow up
really badly in the run leg and end up with really [censored] times. Training
is for learning your limits. Earlier tris are for testing out weird and
wacky new plans. Once it comes to race day, change your plan at your own
peril, ESPECIALLY if it's a long-course.

Like you said earlier, not much to gain from a few metres on the bike,
so if you pass someone, they're not going to be too demoralised. Also,
there's a good chance they're not in your age group, so they won't care.

<snip the rest>

Tam

On Thu, 14 Apr 2005 13:51:07 +1000, Tamyka Bell <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

Don't the zips make it easier to get into, because you can open it up
more?

With a steamer, yes, they make it *possible* to get into![*] But not
really necessary with a longjohn, except maybe the ankles.

I have found the tri wetsuits really hard to get into because of

Quoted message said:

how they are designed, but easy to get out of quickly. The tri wetsuits
tear pretty easily if you yank them on because they're thin, so you have
to cinch them on slowly, and work it up your body.

They're unlined?

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

As opposed to them cooking during the run or ride? 🙂

Good point, but it's unlikely you'll overheat on a ride unless you're a
complete doofus and don't drink. The run is more likely but if you're
well hydrated from the ride it's not a problem. If you go into shock
from a hot-cold change, you're likely to sieze up. From cold-hot you're
likely to go to jelly and just fall over. Easier to be rescued. If
you're well hydrated when you start the run, and don't give yourself a
chance to heat up (i.e. cool water on the body from the very start of
the run leg) it shouldn't be an issue.

True

Quoted message said:

Ha ha. A lot of people try that philosophy. They're the ones who blow up
really badly in the run leg and end up with really [censored] times. Training
is for learning your limits. Earlier tris are for testing out weird and
wacky new plans. Once it comes to race day, change your plan at your own
peril, ESPECIALLY if it's a long-course.

So, to paraphrase, you'd not take any notice of what the other
competitors are doing, and just go at your pace no matter what
happens? Essentially you're pre-programming and then just
following a program with little if any scope for adaptation to
anything except miscalculating your exertion and the weather?

In all seriousness, how do you cope with the boredom?

[*] there are some zipperless diving steamers, but they're very rare!

Carl Brewer said:

So, to paraphrase, you'd not take any notice of what the other
competitors are doing, and just go at your pace no matter what
happens? Essentially you're pre-programming and then just
following a program with little if any scope for adaptation to
anything except miscalculating your exertion and the weather?

In all seriousness, how do you cope with the boredom?

gives tris more time to think about what latest carbonbikeporn, weight weenied, microsecond slicing bit of equipment that they will buy next :p

or sends them slowly insane ...

or.. both! 😄

**reformed multisport athlete**

Carl Brewer said:

We were working together, believe it or not 🙂 It didn't pay though, but without taking risks, there are no rewards!

bwahahahahahahah 😄 you had that patented 'trev up the front while Carl is mid-field' move down pat! 😄

F"who always gave his baseball coach sh1t too an wondered why he always pitched the 'away' roster!"Dutch

Carl Brewer said:

On Thu, 14 Apr 2005 13:51:07 +1000, Tamyka Bell <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

Don't the zips make it easier to get into, because you can open it up
more?

With a steamer, yes, they make it *possible* to get into![*] But not
really necessary with a longjohn, except maybe the ankles.

Are steamers the full arm full leg ones and long johns just long legs?
Because most people swim in the full arm full leg ones.

Quoted message said:

I have found the tri wetsuits really hard to get into because of

Quoted message said:

how they are designed, but easy to get out of quickly. The tri wetsuits
tear pretty easily if you yank them on because they're thin, so you have
to cinch them on slowly, and work it up your body.

They're unlined?

They are rubbery outside, and normal neoprene inside, and in general
glued on the outside layer, stitching inside. I think.

<snip>

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Ha ha. A lot of people try that philosophy. They're the ones who blow up
really badly in the run leg and end up with really [censored] times. Training
is for learning your limits. Earlier tris are for testing out weird and
wacky new plans. Once it comes to race day, change your plan at your own
peril, ESPECIALLY if it's a long-course.

So, to paraphrase, you'd not take any notice of what the other
competitors are doing, and just go at your pace no matter what
happens? Essentially you're pre-programming and then just

Pretty much. Of course, if I'm catching someone late in the race, of
course I'll try to chase 'em down. The thing you're thinking about is
not taking the bait, because you'll feel the poison later.

Quoted message said:

following a program with little if any scope for adaptation to
anything except miscalculating your exertion and the weather?

In all seriousness, how do you cope with the boredom?

I don't find it boring. But then, I've never depended on other people's
actions to keep me entertained. I like spending time with my thoughts. I
think about how my heart and lungs and muscles are doing, how nice a day
it is, how lucky I am to be so damn fit when the spectators are
struggling to walk around, how all the people passing me in the bike leg
are gonna eat my dust once we hit the run, etc., other people are boring
when it comes to sport. I think that's why I hate playing team sports.
The only thing that makes up for that boredom is the possibility of
violence.

Tam

flyingdutch said:

Carl Brewer said:

We were working together, believe it or not 🙂 It didn't pay though,
but without taking risks, there are no rewards!

bwahahahahahahah 😄 you had that patented 'trev up the front while Carl
is mid-field' move down pat! 😄

Did you notice the break he was in for about 15 minutes? Let's
say that the break wasn't without allies in the bunch, and leave it at
that. He probably went in a break a bit too early (~20 mins in)
but we thought that with the crosswinds it might have a chance.

No such luck, but worth a try, especially as the
burnley finance boys had shown their hand in the
first 5 minutes and cooked themselves in the process.
Maybe if they'd been a bit smarter (and so had we) we could
have put a few more in the break and had more manpower
in the bunch to assist. Hopefully there'll be no crosswind
this w'end and we'll just run a leadout train at the end,
and try for a different result 🙂