uneven leg lengths?

[email hidden] wrote:
<snip>

Quoted message said:

The fit guy asked me to give it 100 miles and see how it feels. I'm
now wondering if perhaps my left leg is just shorter than my right. Is
this likely? If so, what can I do about it? Can I get a shorter left
crank arm? Might that help?

Should I just wait a few days to get the 100 miles in and see how it
feels? What then?

Uneven leg lengths is actually quite common. I've heard that it affects
75% of the general population to one degree or another (sorry- fuzzy
memory- I don't have a reference).

Depending on the amount, either shimming the cleat or shoe on the short
leg or installing a shorter crank arm may help, but consult with a
*good* bike fitter about this. It's not something that you want to mess
up. Get used to your new seat position and see if you still notice the
problem in a month.

FWIW: my right leg is 1/2" shorter than my left. I ridden this way for
25 years (uncompensated) with minimal ill effects. I also run around in
circles.

Jeff

Quoted message said:

Last week I started trying to keep my heels lower in my pedal stroke.
Why? I'm not sure, it seemed like a good idea.

It does? Why?

Quoted message said:

I immediately noticed
that it seemed like my left foot was having to reach further. So, I
moved the shoe cleat back about 1/8 of an inch to pull the foot
slightly forward on the pedel. It did feel a little better.

Then, this Tuesday I got my bike fit performed (included with my
purchase from the LBS) by a physical therapist. He raised my seat 4cm
(it's a road bike). Said I was cheating myself out of a lot of power.
Well, now I'm getting much more extension on my legs, but I feel like
my left pedal is "in a galaxay far, far away". My right leg feels
fine.

The fit guy asked me to give it 100 miles and see how it feels.

That sounds like good advice.

Quoted message said:

I'm now wondering if perhaps my left leg is just shorter than my right.
Is this likely?

Not unusual.

Quoted message said:

If so, what can I do about it? Can I get a shorter left
crank arm? Might that help?

This is frequently suggested, but it is generally a Bad Idea.

When leg lengths differ, the shorter leg is generally also a bit weaker
than the longer leg. Putting it on a shorter crank further
disadvantages the shorter/weaker leg.

If there is enough of a discrepancy to mattter, the best way to address
it is with the cleats.

Setting the cleat farther forward on the short-leg side is a good start.

Adding spacers between the cleat and the pedal or otherwise building up
the pedal are also useful strategies.

Sheldon "Pedals" Brown
+----------------------------------------------------+
| If you like Orff’s Carmina Burana, and Janacek’s |
| Glagolitic Mass, you would also probably like |
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+----------------------------------------------------+
Harris Cyclery, West Newton, Massachusetts
Phone 617-244-9772 FAX 617-244-1041
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Hard-to-find parts shipped Worldwide
http://captainbike.com http://sheldonbrown.com

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

it seemed like a good idea.

It does? Why?

I don't know. Silly human rationalization? Maybe I just give up on
the idea. I can't really get my heal down that far with my seat up now
anyway.

Quoted message said:

Adding spacers between the cleat and the pedal or otherwise building up

the pedal are also useful strategies.

Any suggestions on how to do this? I assume a shim between the cleat
and the shoe? What should I use?

I can see an advantage to waiting out the 100 miles or so. I guess
I'll wait and see for now.

Quoted message said:

Last week I started trying to keep my heels lower in my pedal stroke.
Why? I'm not sure, it seemed like a good idea. I immediately noticed
that it seemed like my left foot was having to reach further. So, I
moved the shoe cleat back about 1/8 of an inch to pull the foot
slightly forward on the pedel. It did feel a little better.

Then, this Tuesday I got my bike fit performed (included with my
purchase from the LBS) by a physical therapist. He raised my seat 4cm
(it's a road bike). Said I was cheating myself out of a lot of power.
Well, now I'm getting much more extension on my legs, but I feel like
my left pedal is "in a galaxay far, far away". My right leg feels
fine.

The fit guy asked me to give it 100 miles and see how it feels. I'm
now wondering if perhaps my left leg is just shorter than my right. Is
this likely? If so, what can I do about it? Can I get a shorter left
crank arm? Might that help?

Should I just wait a few days to get the 100 miles in and see how it
feels? What then?

Your leg length discrepancy can't be that much, or you would be aware
of it all the time when walking, trying on pants, etc. Don't rely on a
fit "expert" to tell you what's right. Only you can determine, by trial
and error, what feels best for you.
Set your seat height to optimize the pedal stroke for shorter, weaker
leg. If you set it higher, as you discovered, you will lose power from
that leg, and possibly experience hip or lower back soreness.
Compensate on the longer leg by sliding the cleat back on the shoe a
few mm's to elongate the stroke on that leg. If the seat still feels
low, try sliding it backwards a little, rather than raising it. This
will utilize your lower back and gluteus muscles more, without
increasing the stress on your hip
My left leg is 1cm shorter than my right, and weaker. I setup the shoes
as described, and it works good without having to add a shim to the
cleat.

Quoted message said:

Last week I started trying to keep my heels lower in my pedal stroke.
Why? I'm not sure, it seemed like a good idea. I immediately noticed
that it seemed like my left foot was having to reach further. So, I
moved the shoe cleat back about 1/8 of an inch to pull the foot
slightly forward on the pedel. It did feel a little better.

If I'm following you, it sounds like you should have moved the cleat
*forward* on your left foot... not back. That would make it reach less.
Or, you could have moved the cleat back on your right foot.

Quoted message said:

Then, this Tuesday I got my bike fit performed (included with my
purchase from the LBS) by a physical therapist. He raised my seat 4cm
(it's a road bike).

That is too much to change all at once unless you really don't have any
riding experience at all. Raise it in 1cm increments (max!), and spend
plenty of time getting used to each stage... else you will be asking
for injuries. I'm assuming that you don't ride much... which will make
it easier to adjust to the difference. To a high mileage rider, a half
centimeter is a lot.

Quoted message said:

now wondering if perhaps my left leg is just shorter than my right. Is
this likely? If so, what can I do about it? Can I get a shorter left
crank arm? Might that help?

It could feel different just from muscle tightness... that is probably
the most likely. Stretching is good. Do you notice your left pant leg
always being longer? If you sit with your back (butt) pressed flat
against a wall, can you see a difference in the lengths?

My left leg is shorter by more than a half inch... all in the femur. I
used to use a .2in cleat shim and 5mm (.2in) shorter crank on the left,
with the cleat slightly forward on the shoe relative to the right side.
I thought this was the best I could do, but it didn't seem to help
much... still had knee and back problems like before. Now I just put
the cleat farther forward on the left. At any rate, the best method
would depend on which part of your leg is shorter.

Quoted message said:

Should I just wait a few days to get the 100 miles in and see how it
feels? What then?

Raise your seat slowly, and stretch...

I just bought a used bike that came with a 170mm crank arm on one side
and a 175 on the other. Wonder how long the previous owner was riding
it like that. Maybe he did the different crank lengths on purpose to
compensate for different leg lengths. Or may be dumped the bike
because it rode like you describe and he didn't know the cranks were
different...

Did the fit kit guys look at both sides or just your right side?

There is also the Q factor. The right side arm & pedal can be farther
away from the vertical center of the frame to accomodate the
chainrings. This would seem to be the opposite problem you are having.

To compensate for 6-8 mm of leg length discrepancy, a simple solution
is to use SIDI or Shimano adapters for SPD cleats. Shimano SH-85 is a
plastic plate which bolts onto the sole of road shoes with three bolt
holes for Look or Lance style pedals. It is approximately 6 or 7 mm
thick. It allows you to use SH-71 or SH-70 SPD road cleats, the ones
with the pontoons which keep your foot from tipping to either side when
you walk. I use SPD pedals. I place the right SPD cleat directly on
the sole of the right shoe. I have the SH-85 adapter on the left sole
and place the SPD cleat on it. The SH-85 adapter is thin enough that
it can be fastened to the shoe using the standard length metric screw
which comes with SPD cleats. Bike shops have lots of these screws
around because you don't really need to change screws when you change
SPD cleats. Of course, you have to have a road shoe which allows the
SPD cleat to be attached directly to the sole, so this solution will
not work with road shoes which have only the three bolt holes. Another
plate which can be used to shim the shoe is the SIDI road adapter for
2003 and earlier SIDI road shoes. The SPDR adapter is a little thinner
than the Shimano adapter. The SPD adapter is a little thicker (1-2
mm). I had to use an old soldering iron to melt away a little bit of
plastic in order to fasten one of these plates to the sole of my
Specialized road shoe. With the SPD adapter, use a mountain cleat
rather than the road cleat. The multiple release mountain cleat SH-55
is comparable to the no float road cleat, which I believe is SH-70.
The single release mode mountain cleat SH-51 is comparable to the float
road cleat. I don't know why Shimano chose to use different
terminology in the road and mountain lines.

The Shimano adapter puts the shoe about 3 mm closer to the crank arm
than the SIDI plates do. I have a pair of Specialized road shoes with
an SH-70 or SH-71 cleat on the right shoe and the same cleat on the
left shoe with the SH-85 adapter. I also have a pair of Specialized
road shoe with an SH-70 or Sh-71 cleat on the right shoe with a SIDI
SPD adapter and SH-55 cleat on the left shoe. Except for the slightly
different Q factor, they work the same.

Either of these plates should work for Crank cleats and pedals as well
as for SPD. I don't have any experience with any of the other mountain
pedal systems, but don't see why it would not work for Speedplay Frogs
or any other mountain cleat.

Current model SIDI road shoes allow you to bolt the SPD cleat directly
to the sole and do not require the adapters, so I don't know how much
longer these will be easy to find. They are available from SIDI
dealers for about $20. Shimano plate SH-85 is about $7. Shimano road
SPD cleats are not always easy to find in bike shops, in my experience.
All of these products are available from excelsports.com.

L. D. Lide

Unless there is a substantial discrepancy in leg length, it will be
accommodated by a bit of additional extension at the ankle during the pedal
stroke, and it should not be corrected. A few millimeters difference is
pretty normal. If the discrepancy is dramatic, it should be addressed.

"JeffWills" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

[email hidden] wrote:
<snip>

Quoted message said:

The fit guy asked me to give it 100 miles and see how it feels. I'm
now wondering if perhaps my left leg is just shorter than my right. Is
this likely? If so, what can I do about it? Can I get a shorter left
crank arm? Might that help?

Should I just wait a few days to get the 100 miles in and see how it
feels? What then?

Uneven leg lengths is actually quite common. I've heard that it affects
75% of the general population to one degree or another (sorry- fuzzy
memory- I don't have a reference).

Depending on the amount, either shimming the cleat or shoe on the short
leg or installing a shorter crank arm may help, but consult with a
*good* bike fitter about this. It's not something that you want to mess
up. Get used to your new seat position and see if you still notice the
problem in a month.

FWIW: my right leg is 1/2" shorter than my left. I ridden this way for
25 years (uncompensated) with minimal ill effects. I also run around in
circles.

Jeff

Do a google search on LeWedge if it become necessary.
I'd thinkt he person doing your fit would have noticed if you had a real
problem. Perhaps you should just have him check the position of your cleats
on your shoes?

<[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

it seemed like a good idea.

It does? Why?

I don't know. Silly human rationalization? Maybe I just give up on
the idea. I can't really get my heal down that far with my seat up now
anyway.

Quoted message said:

Adding spacers between the cleat and the pedal or otherwise building up

the pedal are also useful strategies.

Any suggestions on how to do this? I assume a shim between the cleat
and the shoe? What should I use?

I can see an advantage to waiting out the 100 miles or so. I guess
I'll wait and see for now.