UK and Europe · Public discussion

Unclean! Unclean!

Started by wafflycat · · Last activity · 49 posts · 958 views

Thread navigation

Jump through the discussion

Go to the original post, the replies on this page, or the latest preserved contribution.

Thread details

What we know about this thread

Original section
UK and Europe
Published
10 September 2006
Last activity
25 September 2006
Original author
wafflycat
Posts
49
Discussion status
Public discussion
Total views
958
Views / 30 days
0

The navigation and discussion metadata provide context. Posts remain in their original chronological order.

Showing posts 1–20 of 49
Posts remain in their original chronological order.

Text size
  1. "Cyclists in busy urban areas may have to sound a bell almost continually as
    they cycle along under government plans to force them not only to have
    bicycle bells fitted, but to use them to warn pedestrians of their approach.
    "

    and

    "The moves come amid concerns over accidents caused by cyclists and cases of
    people going through red lights or riding on pavements, according to today's
    Sunday Telegraph. A dozen pedestrians have died in collisions with cyclists
    in the past five years, while 148 cyclists died on the roads last year
    alone - the highest total for six years."

    http://news.independent.co.uk/uk/this_britain/article1433446.ece

    Now, how to compose a reasonable letter to Transport minister Stephen
    Ladyman telling him what I think of his idea without it being 99%
    expletives. What an utterly, utterly stupid idea. Bicycle bells are useless
    as they are ignored.

    I wonder what new measure he intends to bring into place to reduce the size
    of the elephant in the room: the average of nine people a day killed by
    err... motorists?

    Cheers, helen s

    --

    ~~

    SUPPORT THE CYCLISTS DEFENCE FUND
    http://www.cyclistsdefencefund.org.uk/

    ~~
    to send reply email - you may need to remove dependence
    on fame & fortune from organisation
    to get correct email address
    ~Noodliness is Good~

  2. On Sun, 10 Sep 2006 15:14:47 +0100, "wafflycat"

    w*a*ff£y£cat*@£btco*nn£ect.com said:

    Now, how to compose a reasonable letter to Transport minister Stephen
    Ladyman telling him what I think of his idea without it being 99%
    expletives. What an utterly, utterly stupid idea. Bicycle bells are useless
    as they are ignored.

    I saw it on the front of the paper this morning but, as I had not yet
    had breakfast and did not want to get worked up, I put it out of my
    mind.

    I also caught sight of something about bikes having number plates.
    Yeah, sure thing! We all know that NO motorised vehicles with number
    plates are EVER involved in law-breaking.

    Judith

  3. In article <[email hidden]>

    wafflycat w*a*ff£y£cat*@£btco*nn£ect.com said:

    "Cyclists in busy urban areas may have to sound a bell almost continuallyas
    they cycle along under government plans to force them not only to have
    bicycle bells fitted, but to use them to warn pedestrians of their approach.
    "


    Time to get a tyre-driven bell - if enough cylists use them enough of
    the time then people will soon get tired of the noise and demand that
    the government do something about it.

    Quoted message said:


    "The moves come amid concerns over accidents caused by cyclists and casesof
    people going through red lights or riding on pavements, according to today's
    Sunday Telegraph. A dozen pedestrians have died in collisions with cyclists
    in the past five years, while 148 cyclists died on the roads last year
    alone - the highest total for six years."


    I bet they were mostly old dodderers just looking for an excuse to have
    a heart attack or break a hip. How many of these bike/pedestrian
    collisions were on pavements or shared facilities?

  4. wafflycat said:

    "The moves come amid concerns over accidents caused by cyclists and cases of
    people going through red lights or riding on pavements

    So, it would be OK to ride on the pavement or go through a red light if
    you rang your bell? And the sort of riders who go onto the pavement and
    through red lights would actually use a bell?

  5. <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:


    wafflycat said:

    "The moves come amid concerns over accidents caused by cyclists and cases
    of
    people going through red lights or riding on pavements

    So, it would be OK to ride on the pavement or go through a red light if
    you rang your bell? And the sort of riders who go onto the pavement and
    through red lights would actually use a bell?

    Don't ask me, ask the Minister for Transport!

  6. wafflycat wrote on 10/09/2006 15:14 +0100:

    Quoted message said:


    Now, how to compose a reasonable letter to Transport minister Stephen
    Ladyman telling him what I think of his idea without it being 99%
    expletives. What an utterly, utterly stupid idea. Bicycle bells are
    useless as they are ignored.

    "In a statement given to Parliament, Transport minister Stephen Ladyman
    pledged to hold a public consultation on the issue, saying "[this is] a
    sensible moment to review our current policies""

    Ah that's all right then. By the time they've finished the consultation
    this lot will have imploded anyway.

    --
    Tony

    "Anyone who conducts an argument by appealing to authority is not using
    his intelligence; he is just using his memory."
    - Leonardo da Vinci

  7. Tony Raven said:

    Perhaps motor vehicles will have to continuously sound their horns while
    driving along ;-)

    Many seem to be doing that already. Has a bit of legislation passed
    through parliament on the quiet?

    peter

  8. On Sun, 10 Sep 2006 16:08:09 +0100, Tony Raven wrote
    (in article <[email hidden]>😉:

    Quoted message said:

    Perhaps motor vehicles will have to continuously sound their horns while
    driving along ;-)

    I think at the very least motor vehicles should be preceded by an individual
    walking along holding up a red flag.

    --
    Patrick

    My bikes: Moulton AM7 and two Moulton APBs - an R18 and a "mongrel"
    Pic of R18: <http://patrickjames.mysite.wanadoo-members.co.uk/R18.jpg>

    A few paragraphs about the Scottoiler chain lubrication system:
    <http://patrickjames.mysite.wanadoo-members.co.uk/scottoiler.html>

  9. wafflycat w*a*ff?y?cat*@?btco*nn?ect.com said:

    "Cyclists in busy urban areas may have to sound a bell almost continually as
    they cycle along under government plans to force them not only to have
    bicycle bells fitted, but to use them to warn pedestrians of their approach.
    "

    Fortunately, AirZound are ready with a supply of larger air cylinders.

    http://tinyurl.com/mw4t4

    Can also be used to propel those often-asked-for water cannon.

    -adrian

    [ http://www1.istockphoto.com/file_thumbview_approve/968682/2/istockphoto_968682_scuba_tanks_2.jpg ]

  10. wafflycat' w*a*ff£y£cat*@£btco*nn£ect.com said:

    "Cyclists in busy urban areas may have to sound a bell almost
    continually as they cycle along under government plans to force them
    not only to have bicycle bells fitted, but to use them to warn
    pedestrians of their approach. "

    Is the government also going to ban the wearing of MP3 players by
    pedestrians?

    --
    Alan J. Wylie http://www.wylie.me.uk/
    "Perfection [in design] is achieved not when there is nothing left to add,
    but rather when there is nothing left to take away."
    -- Antoine de Saint-Exupery

  11. "Alan J. Wylie" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    On Sun, 10 Sep 2006 15:14:47 +0100, "wafflycat"

    w*a*ff£y£cat*@£btco*nn£ect.com said:

    "Cyclists in busy urban areas may have to sound a bell almost
    continually as they cycle along under government plans to force them
    not only to have bicycle bells fitted, but to use them to warn
    pedestrians of their approach. "

    Is the government also going to ban the wearing of MP3 players by
    pedestrians?

    Ask the Minister...

  12. In article <[email hidden]>

    Alan J. Wylie said:
    wafflycat' w*a*ff£y£cat*@£btco*nn£ect.com said:

    "Cyclists in busy urban areas may have to sound a bell almost
    continually as they cycle along under government plans to force them
    not only to have bicycle bells fitted, but to use them to warn
    pedestrians of their approach. "

    Is the government also going to ban the wearing of MP3 players by
    pedestrians?


    What about ICE systems and double glazing in cars? SatNav too.

  13. "wafflycat" <w*a*ff£y£cat*@£btco*nn£ect.com> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    "Cyclists in busy urban areas may have to sound a bell almost continually
    as they cycle along under government plans to force them not only to have
    bicycle bells fitted, but to use them to warn pedestrians of their
    approach. "

    and

    "The moves come amid concerns over accidents caused by cyclists and cases
    of people going through red lights or riding on pavements, according to
    today's Sunday Telegraph. A dozen pedestrians have died in collisions with
    cyclists in the past five years, while 148 cyclists died on the roads last
    year alone - the highest total for six years."

    http://news.independent.co.uk/uk/this_britain/article1433446.ece

    Now, how to compose a reasonable letter to Transport minister Stephen
    Ladyman telling him what I think of his idea without it being 99%
    expletives. What an utterly, utterly stupid idea. Bicycle bells are
    useless as they are ignored.

    I wonder what new measure he intends to bring into place to reduce the
    size of the elephant in the room: the average of nine people a day killed
    by err... motorists?

    April Fools is not for a few months.

    T

  14. "...cyclists would have to ensure their bikes carried working bells and
    would have to ring them every time they saw a pedestrian."

    Two questions:

    Would that be once per pedestrian? How much can we sue the government for
    for RSI?

    How would my defence of "I didn't see him." work? Similar to the car
    driver's version?

  15. "wafflycat" <w*a*ff£y£cat*@£btco*nn£ect.com> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    "Cyclists in busy urban areas may have to sound a bell almost continually
    as they cycle along under government plans to force them not only to have
    bicycle bells fitted, but to use them to warn pedestrians of their
    approach. "

    and

    "The moves come amid concerns over accidents caused by cyclists and cases
    of people going through red lights or riding on pavements, according to
    today's Sunday Telegraph. A dozen pedestrians have died in collisions with
    cyclists in the past five years, while 148 cyclists died on the roads last
    year alone - the highest total for six years."

    http://news.independent.co.uk/uk/this_britain/article1433446.ece

    Now, how to compose a reasonable letter to Transport minister Stephen
    Ladyman telling him what I think of his idea without it being 99%
    expletives. What an utterly, utterly stupid idea. Bicycle bells are
    useless as they are ignored.

    I wonder what new measure he intends to bring into place to reduce the
    size of the elephant in the room: the average of nine people a day killed
    by err... motorists?

    Wondering if Air Horns would be a suitable alternative for Bells.

  16. wafflycat said:

    "Cyclists in busy urban areas may have to sound a bell almost
    continually as they cycle along under government plans to force them not
    only to have bicycle bells fitted, but to use them to warn pedestrians
    of their approach. "

    "The moves come amid concerns over accidents caused by cyclists and
    cases of people going through red lights or riding on pavements,
    according to today's Sunday Telegraph. A dozen pedestrians have died in
    collisions with cyclists in the past five years, while 148 cyclists died
    on the roads last year alone - the highest total for six years."

    http://news.independent.co.uk/uk/this_britain/article1433446.ece

    Is this old news? What's the point of making a statement to Parliament
    when it's on holiday?

    That figure of 12 deaths looks high and most of them will have been on
    the road.

    Quoted message said:

    Now, how to compose a reasonable letter to Transport minister Stephen
    Ladyman telling him what I think of his idea without it being 99%
    expletives. What an utterly, utterly stupid idea. Bicycle bells are
    useless as they are ignored.

    1. It won't solve any problem
    2. It will be another law the police won't have time to enforce
    3. It will fuel more anti-cyclist bigotry

    1. Audible warning is not reliable as a way to avoid collisions. How
    many of the dozens of cars that killed pedestrians on the pavement
    last year had silent engines? Cyclists should be taught to go slowly
    enough to avoid pedestrians, no matter what they do, until they become
    aware of their presence. Pedestrians should be taught to rely on eyes,
    not ears, when not on a footway.

    2. See speeding, mobile phones, cycle lights etc.

    3. There is an important general point we need to be aware of here.
    Where the government attempts to appease extremists by moving in their
    direction on an issue, the result is always bad. The extremists are
    not happy, and clamour for further movement. But now the centre ground
    of the argument has shifted, and non-extremists start debating about
    things they previously condemned. The classic example here is
    treatment of asylum-seekers. The policy is far stricter (more
    inhumane) than it was 10 years ago. Yet all the debate that's reported
    is about making it yet more severe, instead of exposing just how
    unjust the system is already to genuine fleers of persecution.

    Now we fight to keep cyclepaths and helmets optional. Lose those
    fights, and there will be new debates about even more anti-cyclist
    measures. There is a slippery slope in politics, and if you don't want
    to be forced down it you need to be moving up.

    If this is new news, I'll write to my MP, who's Ladyman's PPS.

    Colin McKenzie

    --
    On average in Britain, you're more likely to get a head injury walking
    a mile than cycling it.
    So why aren't we all exhorted to wear walking helmets?

  17. "Tony Raven" <[email hidden]> wrote

    [snip]

    Quoted message said:

    "In a statement given to Parliament, Transport minister Stephen


    Ladyman

    Quoted message said:

    pledged to hold a public consultation on the issue, saying "[this


    is] a

    Quoted message said:

    sensible moment to review our current policies""

    [snip]

    It's been a sensible moment for them to review their policies for
    some time now, I think.

    If you want to review them, it's probably best to do so only in small
    doses, if you want to avoid upsetting yourself

    On second thoughts, reviewing their policies seems to do funny things
    to my brain, and it seems to do worse things to theirs. Perhaps we
    would be better off if they just didn't have any policies

    Jeremy Parker

  18. Niall Wallace said:


    Wondering if Air Horns would be a suitable alternative for Bells.

    The last time I used my air horn on a ped (well he was walking in the
    middle of the road - in rush hour), he rushed to his cage, chased me
    down and then started acting all aggressive. Luckily he got caught in
    the traffic and I lost him.

    --
    Don Whybrow

    Sequi Bonum Non Time

    "The POP3 server service depends on the SMTP server service, which
    failed to start because of the following error: The operation completed
    successfully." (Windows NT Server v3.51)

  19. wafflycat wrote:
    ....snip...

    Quoted message said:

    Now, how to compose a reasonable letter to Transport minister Stephen
    Ladyman telling him what I think of his idea without it being 99%
    expletives. What an utterly, utterly stupid idea. Bicycle bells are useless
    as they are ignored.

    I wonder what new measure he intends to bring into place to reduce the size
    of the elephant in the room: the average of nine people a day killed by
    err... motorists?


    ....snip...

    I know it's hard, but you have to keep your response polite if you want
    to be taken seriously.

    Ask for some of the data that he must have had in order to reach his
    conclusions:

    Of the 12 deaths in the past 5 years, how many of the cyclists used a
    bell to warn the pedestrian?

    Of the 12 deaths in the past 5 years, how many of them might have been
    avoided had the cyclist used a bell to warn the pedestrian? What is
    the basis for the number provided?

    What studies does he have at hand showing the efficacy of bicycle bells
    for reducing bicycle/pedestrian collisions?

    How many pedestrian deaths have there been in the past 5 years as the
    result of pedestrian/automobile collisions?

    What percentage of pedestrian/bicycle collisions result in the death of
    the pedestrian?

    What percentage of pedestrian/automobile collisions result in the death
    of the pedestian?

    Given that the number of pedestrians killed by automobiles per year is
    orders of magnitude greater than the number of pedestrians killed by
    bicycles per year, what measures does the honourable member intend to
    take to reduce the number of pedestrians killed by automobiles?

    Why does the honourable member believe that cyclists pose a greater
    danger to pedestrians than do automobiles?

    Those are a few questions I'd like to pose to the MP. If you could get
    those questions into a newspaper, it might get a few people thinking
    (okay, it's a long shot).

    Jeff

  20. [censored]*ng 'ell!

    Quoted message said:

    Perhaps motor vehicles will have to continuously sound their horns while
    driving along ;-)
    Tony

Active in the last 60 minutes

Active in this thread

0 users · 0 guests ·0 bots ·0 total

No signed-in users are active right now.

No known search crawlers active right now.