Ultralight winter gear

"Paul Saunders" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
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Quoted message said:

Let's tackle this from a different angle. I know that it's a contradiction in terms, but what are
the main items I'd need for ultralight winter backpacking?

Hi Paul,

Did you ever get my email with the spreadsheet showing the weights of my stuff?

Quoted message said:

I mean, I have a bivi bag and I've used it in December on a mountain top,

More guts than me then!

Quoted message said:

So tent? I suppose you'd all recommend an Akto? What about this new Terra Nova thingy? Not
tough enough?

That's a question I really want the answer to. The best info I've found is probably this:
<http://www.sleepmonsters.com/gear.php3?article_id=9>

Quoted message said:

Sleeping bag?

Check www.cmmonline.co.uk for good deals on sleeping bags. I'm got my Mountain Equipment bag there
at a good price. Just now, they've got a Classic 750 for £110 which is a saving on £60 on the RRP.
That should keep you warm to -12c depending on personal preference, health, food, etc.

Quoted message said:

Sleeping mat? I'm on the verge of buying a Thermarest Ultralite. Phil seems to agree that it does
the job.

An excellent product. I love mine but DON'T buy one! There's a newer, better lighter one coming very
soon. See the recent Cascade Designs New Prolite Sleeping Pads post by Aushiker or check out:
<backcountrygear.comaccessdetail.cfmOpen ↗ =CA1551>

Actually, maybe you might get a good runout deal on the Ultralite?

Quoted message said:

Rucksack? How small can I practically get away with for winter camping? 55L or 65L? Any
particularly good lightweight models?

A good lightweight rucksack in that size is the Mountain Equipment Diamond 55+ which only weighs 1.5
kilos. If you make use of the extension, it will take 65L. I managed to pack mine to the brim
without a tent in it but my weight was still very low (17 kilos) so I think my packing is poor.

Rucksack available now from www.the-outdoorshop.co.uk for £59 (with free P&P) instead of £90 RRP.

Quoted message said:

Of course I'll have to carry some extra warm clothing, fortunately my Nuptse down vest is small
and light. Stove? Pots and pans?

Stove = Coleman F1 Lite. 88 grams including pouch for 4500w. Works very well for me and the user
reviews on www.outdoorsmagic.com are also very favourable too.

Pots and Pans = I manage to get secondhand MSR Titanium pot set. Pricey (even s/h!) but the weight
saving is great at only 274 grams for two pots and a plate/frying pan.

Quoted message said:

The camera equipment is another problem...

Hehe. I love my little Nikon digital at only 367 grams but it doesn't love the cold. I don't know if
it is the batteries but in sub-zero temperatures it just dies on me in a few minutes.

Cheers, Jiffy

[email hidden] said...

Quoted message said:

Stove? Pots and pans?

Yes, you'll need those... unless you take a couple of boy scouts to rub together to make a fire.
--
~ Fran ~ Three men walked into a bar; one turned to the other two and said, "No, I didn't see it
either". (quoted by the Trollkiller)

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9 Jan 2004 22:02:35 -0000 'Paul Saunders said:

Let's tackle this from a different angle. I know that it's a contradiction in terms, but what are
the main items I'd need for ultralight winter backpacking?

Sleeping bag?

You need a MacPac Neve... especially if you get a thermarest... the MacPac bag comes with no down on
the bottom (no insulation from squashed feathers!) but it has a slot to shove your thermarest into.
Not only do you not roll off your mat but you can't get tied up in knots inside the bag (unless
you're planning something for two?)...

A packed MacPac 4-season down bag is smaller then most "summer" bags.

Quoted message said:

Sleeping mat? I'm on the verge of buying a Thermarest Ultralite. Phil seems to agree that it does
the job.

Yup...

- --
Mark Anderson/Scottish Climbing Archive Email: [email hidden] WWW: www.scotclimb.org.uk

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Jiffy said:

Did you ever get my email with the spreadsheet showing the weights of my stuff?

I did yes, thanks! Sorry for not getting back to you about that but I wanted to study it in some
detail and got sidetracked with other stuff, so it got put on perpetual hold. Now that I'm in the
process of buying some new gear and trying to pack lighter I will be taking a look at it. Thanks for
reminding me.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I mean, I have a bivi bag and I've used it in December on a mountain top,

More guts than me then!

Nah, not guts, just a desire for a challenge, coupled with gear that I knew would keep me warm and
comfortable. At the time I had a 5 season sleeping bag made of quallofill. Very warm it was, (and
heavy too) until it lost it's loft, as all synthetic bags do depressingly quickly.

Quoted message said:

That's a question I really want the answer to. The best info I've found is probably this:
<http://www.sleepmonsters.com/gear.php3?article_id=9>

I'm considering this.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Sleeping bag?

Check www.cmmonline.co.uk for good deals on sleeping bags.

Thanks for the link, but I've already arranged to buy Graham's Snowline. Possibly a little bit
warmer (and thus heavier) than I really need, but the price is good and it will ensure that I won't
get cold during the winter. I could probably do with something substantially lighter for the summer
half of the year though.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Sleeping mat? I'm on the verge of buying a Thermarest Ultralite. Phil seems to agree that it does
the job.

An excellent product. I love mine but DON'T buy one! There's a newer, better lighter one coming
very soon.

Interesting. Are these available yet? It does state that it's thinner and thus suitable for 3-season
use, which suggests that the ultralite is the better choice for winter use. Bear in mind that I
don't expect, or even necessarily desire, to travel *ultra* light during the winter. That will be
the goal for summer, but in winter, simply travelling *normal* light weight would suffice.

Quoted message said:

Actually, maybe you might get a good runout deal on the Ultralite?

£45 and £50 have been mentioned, which seems fine to me.

Quoted message said:

A good lightweight rucksack in that size is the Mountain Equipment Diamond 55+ which only weighs
1.5 kilos.

Noted. I'll consider that, thanks.

Quoted message said:

Stove = Coleman F1 Lite. 88 grams including pouch for 4500w.

Noted too. Not sure what I'm using but it's pretty light. I'll have to check.

Quoted message said:

Pots and Pans = I manage to get secondhand MSR Titanium pot set. Pricey (even s/h!) but the weight
saving is great at only 274 grams for two pots and a plate/frying pan.

Does it really make that much difference? Is it better to simply take one pan? I do tend to use
three though, one for cooking the main meal plus the second for mixing the instant mash (only
certain meals. While the third pan is used for boiling the tea... In fact, I'd have difficulty
managing with only two.

Quoted message said:

Hehe. I love my little Nikon digital at only 367 grams

Well *one* of my lenses will be that light. I'll shortly be buying a Canon 300D plus two ultra
small, light lenses designed specifically for DSLRs. Not the best quality, but ideal for lightweight
backpacking. Unfortunately the camera body won't be that light, but by DSLR standards it's actually
pretty light, and it will probably mean that I won't have to take my film camera too, so that will
save a lot of weight. I'll only need to take the panoramic too, but possibly not even that if I want
to travel ultra light.

Quoted message said:

but it doesn't love the cold. I don't know if it is the batteries but in sub-zero temperatures it
just dies on me in a few minutes.

Well my G3's battery has done very well in the cold so far. It's conking out during the expedition
weekend was probably due partly to the cold, but mostly to taking lots of long exposures in the
middle of the very cold first night. I think that long exposures (30 seconds) drain the battery a
lot faster than normal, so I should refrain from taking too many such shots on a camping trip. Also,
I should keep the battery in a warm pocket when the camera is not in use. A second battery backup
would also be a good idea. Hopefully that will suffice for a weekend.

Thanks for all the suggestions and links.

Paul
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Mark Anderson said:

Quoted message said:

Sleeping bag?

You need a MacPac Neve... especially if you get a thermarest...

Any particular size of thermarest?

Quoted message said:

the MacPac bag comes with no down on the bottom (no insulation from squashed feathers!) but it has
a slot to shove your thermarest into. Not only do you not roll off your mat but you can't get tied
up in knots inside the bag (unless you're planning something for two?)...

A packed MacPac 4-season down bag is smaller then most "summer" bags.

A fair point, but I must admit that while the idea has some appeal, on the whole I don't like the
sound of it. For one thing there's the turning in my sleep. I hate sleeping on my back and find that
my most usual sleeping position is face down.

The other thing is that I've already commited myself to a winter sleeping bag now, the Snowline, but
I'll probably still want something lighter for the summer.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Sleeping mat? I'm on the verge of buying a Thermarest Ultralite. Phil seems to agree that it does
the job.

Okay then, that's pretty much decided.

Paul
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"Paul Saunders" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
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Quoted message said:

Jiffy wrote:

on Thermarest Ultralites.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Actually, maybe you might get a good runout deal on the Ultralite?

£45 and £50 have been mentioned, which seems fine to me.

I paid £43 for mine in Blacks sale recently. I assume we are talking about the 3/4, otherwise I seem
to have paid over the odds. Doesn't feel half as comfortable as my full length LE, but at half the
weight I will take it when back packing as opposed to just camping.

I've still got to get my lighter sleeping bag though.

Have fun, Paul

Jiffy said:

I think they'll be available soon. I see your point about going for the Ultralite since it's
thicker.

I have been worrying that the ultralite may be too thin. It may come as a shock to me after getting
used to my 2" thick Luxury model.

Quoted message said:

www.the-outdoorshop.co.uk usually do good offers on them.

Noted.

Quoted message said:

Also check out the new Macpac Pursuit. It's a wee bit smaller and a wee bit heaver and a whole lot
more money but Macpac stuff is very long lasting.

Long lasting may not be the most important factor in a rucksack right now, so long as it does the
job. I'm more interested in saving money for new camera gear at the moment so I can't throw too much
money at new camping gear. I desperately need a new pair of boots to replace my clapped out
Brashers, but I haven't got any spare cash for those. Not sure what to do there at the moment.

Quoted message said:

Weightwise, I think it does. The Duralita aluminium cookset is 200 grams more for the same size
of pots.

Nearly half a pound? Hmm... I guess that does make a difference. Although I'm getting much better at
thinking of weight in terms of kilos, I still tend to think of some things in pounds. Haven't made
the full transition yet (unlike with altitude where heights in feet mean nothing to me anymore).

Quoted message said:

How a titanium kettle instead of a pan? It would be more efficient on fuel too.

I used to use a small kettle. Not sure if that's lighter than a very small pan. Always seems to boil
pretty quick anyway.

Paul
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Paul Cummings said:

Quoted message said:

£45 and £50 have been mentioned, which seems fine to me.

I paid £43 for mine in Blacks sale recently.

I went there and they'd sold out. Told me they couldn't get any more in. Suggested I try their
website but I could find no mention of them at a sale price.

Quoted message said:

I assume we are talking about the 3/4, otherwise I seem to have paid over the odds.

I'm talking about the full length. I saw the £50 sale price tag just this evening. Chris Street
mentioned the other price.

Quoted message said:

Doesn't feel half as comfortable as my full length LE, but at half the weight I will take it when
back packing as opposed to just camping.

That's my plan too.

Quoted message said:

Have fun,

I'll try, but believe it or not, I've still got this damn cold!!! It just won't go away, approx four
weeks now!!! :-(

Paul
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