ultra on pavement?

<[email hidden]> wrote

Quoted message said:

I'm working on a sports event, and thinking about suggesting a 50-mile
running option.

I suggest you connect with the ultra community starting with the ultra
mailing list.
The following link will let you sign up, and view the archive, which you can
search for info on operating ultra races.

http://www.ultrunr.com/list.html

You should get some experienced ultra runners or ultra race directors to
manage or be key lieutenants -- it's not like managing a 10k.

It's a big investment in time and mental energy to compete, and if you mess
up (bad course markings/lost runners, missing or understocked aid stations,
no plans to handle drop-outs and health problems, etc), word will definitely
get around.

Most races are a labor of love on the part of the RD's and volunteers.

Quoted message said:

My very casual internet research suggests all 50-milers and up are
primarily on trails. Is that because it's too hard on the body to do it
on pavement?

Yes, it's much more pounding. I'd never run one. But some folks like the
fact that pavement ultras are usually much flatter than trail races, and
faster times can be had.

Quoted message said:

Or because people want to be in the woods?

Lots of people like the adventure and beauty of being in the wild.

Quoted message said:

Or is it just the difficult logistics of closing off roads?

Quoted message said:

Upshot is -- if our event added a 50-mile (or up) running option on
pavement (point-to-point), would people do it?

My guess is that not many would, especially in the inagural year. These
things usually start out organically--10-20 people in year 1, then it grows
if word gets around. If the people putting it on are hooked into and
known/respected in the ultra community, you can do word-of-mouth marketing
and do better.

Remember, you'll need aid stations every 5-7 miles at a minimum. If you
work out an out and back course, you cut the number of stations.

Quoted message said:

I'm working on a sports event, and thinking about suggesting a 50-mile
running option.

My very casual internet research suggests all 50-milers and up are
primarily on trails.

Right, but there are some paved ones out there. This subject comes up
periodically.

Quoted message said:

Is that because it's too hard on the body to do it
on pavement?

possibly, but not sure that's the driving reason, since some people like
the speed and simplicity of pavement.

Quoted message said:

Or because people want to be in the woods?

A large portion, esp. where I am in Alaska, just want a run through the
woods / mountains for many hours. They're after the scenery and the
challenge. Based on comments I've read elsewhere, I think this is
typical for many ultra runners.

Quoted message said:

Or is it just
the difficult logistics of closing off roads?

I doubt it since many paved courses (bike paths) don't require road
closure, but it may depend on size of your field. Depending on size of
field and width of shoulders, even regular roads might work without
closure. I think the Self-Transcendence races (up to 3100 miles) are on
pavement in a park. Other, timed races (24-/48-hr, etc) are frequently
run on tracks on small loops - either trail or paved.

Quoted message said:

Upshot is -- if our event added a 50-mile (or up) running option on
pavement (point-to-point), would people do it?

May depend on your local runners and whether you can attract other
non-local runners. There very definitely are paved ultras that people
run, but as you noted the majority are trails, usually in scenic areas.
You might want to check your local race schedule as well as
national/regional ultra schedule to see what you might be in competition
with for your time frame.

Caveat: I haven't run anything beyond 8 mi, although long-term goal is a
local trail ultra but just volunteered at that race (38 mi trail, 12 mi
gravel road, and some just plan on running the trail portion, but most
do all the race).

Dot

--
"Success is different things to different people"
-Bernd Heinrich in Racing the Antelope

Thank you for the info! I will get started. The event in question is an
inline skating ultra (top distance 87 miles) that's been running for
20+ years, and we were just starting to brainstorm on how we might add
other sports to boost the numbers.

I appreciate it!

K

Quoted message said:

Thank you for the info! I will get started. The event in question is an
inline skating ultra (top distance 87 miles) that's been running for
20+ years, and we were just starting to brainstorm on how we might add
other sports to boost the numbers.

This wouldn't happen to be the "Athens to Atlanta Road Skate," would it?

--
Phil M.

Quoted message said:

Thank you for the info! I will get started. The event in question is an
inline skating ultra (top distance 87 miles) that's been running for
20+ years, and we were just starting to brainstorm on how we might add
other sports to boost the numbers.

This wouldn't happen to be the "Athens to Atlanta Road Skate," would it?

--
Phil M.

Phil M. said:

Quoted message said:

Thank you for the info! I will get started. The event in question is an
inline skating ultra (top distance 87 miles) that's been running for
20+ years, and we were just starting to brainstorm on how we might add
other sports to boost the numbers.

This wouldn't happen to be the "Athens to Atlanta Road Skate," would it?

it's the only 87 mile inline event that's been running for 20+years in
the usa that i can think of.

did you ever skate that, phil, or have friends who did? i think it's in
your area, that's why i ask.
h

Phil M. said:

Quoted message said:

Thank you for the info! I will get started. The event in question is an
inline skating ultra (top distance 87 miles) that's been running for
20+ years, and we were just starting to brainstorm on how we might add
other sports to boost the numbers.

This wouldn't happen to be the "Athens to Atlanta Road Skate," would it?

it's the only 87 mile inline event that's been running for 20+years in
the usa that i can think of.

did you ever skate that, phil, or have friends who did? i think it's in
your area, that's why i ask.
h

Quoted message said:

Phil M. said:

Quoted message said:

Thank you for the info! I will get started. The event in question is

an

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

inline skating ultra (top distance 87 miles) that's been running for
20+ years, and we were just starting to brainstorm on how we might add
other sports to boost the numbers.

This wouldn't happen to be the "Athens to Atlanta Road Skate," would

it?

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

it's the only 87 mile inline event that's been running for 20+years in
the usa that i can think of.

I took a look at their web site. Apparently it's been cancelled this year
due to lack of registrants. I can see why they want to diversify.

Quoted message said:

did you ever skate that, phil, or have friends who did? i think it's
in your area, that's why i ask.

No, but it goes by my home, since I'm half way between Athens and
Atlanta. Combining it with a running ultra event could be interesting.
However, I can't see it making a huge difference participation.

--
Phil M.

with all the new trails my state here is doing. and all the marathons to
ultras plus are going on, I guest it is allways something to try and
find something newer and something that hasen't been done before.
wait a tick..it has been done before.........
I say go for it.
better 1 surface ground then many.
and use wavers.

Phil M. said:

I took a look at their web site. Apparently it's been cancelled this year
due to lack of registrants. I can see why they want to diversify.

well, it's a great race and a beautiful course (imo)- it's too bad they
had to cancel, although i totally understand that hiring the police for
12 hours to control most intersections has got to be expensive. i went
once, but it's not worth it to me to fly completely across the country
to do it every year. that gets expensive too. and the plane experience
is a harder endurance event than the actual race! i hope to never cross
the usa twice within 50 hours ever again.

Quoted message said:

No, but it goes by my home, since I'm half way between Athens and
Atlanta. Combining it with a running ultra event could be interesting.
However, I can't see it making a huge difference participation.

so you probably run on some of the course (or similar in the area)? i'm
jealous! of course, if you don't like rolling hills that could be a
problem 😉

don't know how much a running event would add to the numbers either,
myself (agreeing with you), but it could be at least worth looking into
(like the op seems to be doing).
heather

h squared said:

well, it's a great race and a beautiful course (imo)- it's too bad they
had to cancel, although i totally understand that hiring the police for
12 hours to control most intersections has got to be expensive. i went
once, but it's not worth it to me to fly completely across the country
to do it every year.

I never realized that this event was such a big deal. Is this one of
the premier inline events?

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

No, but it goes by my home, since I'm half way between Athens and
Atlanta. Combining it with a running ultra event could be interesting.
However, I can't see it making a huge difference participation.

so you probably run on some of the course (or similar in the area)? i'm
jealous! of course

Yes, I frequently run on the course. If you recall the route as it goes
through Suwanee and Lawrenceville, I run on Old Peachtree Rd from Route
20 to the intersection of Herrington Rd and Cruse Rd. I find it strange
that someone would be jealous of this running route. From an inline
skater's perspective with all traffic blocked off it could be nice.
There are several sections along Old Peachtree Rd that I would consider
treacherous. Parts of the road are just one lane each way with about a
6 inch shoulder and then grass that never gets mowed, so by August it
is about 1 or 2 feet high. If 2 cars are passing eachother (usually at
50+ MPH) while they are passing me, then I have no choice but stop and
stand in the grass or risk tripping over something that I cannot see.

Quoted message said:

if you don't like rolling hills that could be a problem 😉

You might see me complain about the hills, but I'd rather have the
hills than be on a flat course. The hills break up the routine and make
me a stronger runner. I noticed on the inline course that most of it is
rolling, with nothing steeper than a 3-4% grade. The steepest of the
course is when you turn right on Lebanon Rd from Sever Rd. This is
probably about a -7 to -8% downhill grade. On skates I would think this
would be frightening. I try to avoid this on easy days, especially
uphill. This part is about 1 mile from my home.

Quoted message said:

don't know how much a running event would add to the numbers either,
myself (agreeing with you), but it could be at least worth looking into
(like the op seems to be doing).

It looks like the event will happen for 2006, but who knows? If so,
I'll make it a point to watch it and maybe cheer you on!

--
Phil M.

and some people pay alto-mill/o bucks to kiss the wall.
a bitt of field of eagle look up tonight it should have the whole of
the milkie way as it's wing. and swan news here The ravens every wear
and all I has to say is I tried 10,000 times in 3 years and all I got
was a problem, so with out do respect I say 8 more years to the hay
contract and I have a house.....so as far as you taken my place..... so
do I.
ravens flew away. above the 1 2 taxes gathers. who look like
prosecutes.

Oh the Lord works in different ways.
unless the rock are piled near the water.
from Atlantis or to athens. mon soon doing any damage there?
under water run . o.k. better hit some weights. Neptune and the
Mediterranean can get nasty this time of year. and hara"s rising because
hercules is going north and I like him best at the north east. the
weather is a cooler climates for my old ages and skies are clear here to
lift weights out side and look for e.t. on my out side weight area.. I
like the night time life then......when would you ran into the sea.
would it be a storm date or biblical. or evan a star chart time were to
be in order.

atoms re construction in trains forming the wheel of time is in a pile
on the shores of spoons...... mon spoons and bad tides....... and a
green algae...... not much news on buried tomes of ancients time in
biblical resurrections is on the news now a days..... is the run on
the cements of past ruins. or just to the shores.....of the sea.

only man I saw oddly is to olympics ordered visa any thing in this
order was the swimmer at athens when he tap the Statue of Liberty in
N.Y. N. Y. from athens and said one.

then again on sunday lets watch the super nova Beethoven star blow up
before dawn here + 10,000 years.. DeanMartin put it well in Every body
love's some body sometimes....... 5 a.m.

this is good as normal mile on a spin bike.
gee I can do a mile on under 25 4 round spins and be doing near 30
m.p.h. real world not the same. (good form)

I say climb the pile of rocks from the sea and make your way down the
roads of atlantis of ancient and end up on the shores of Lock leer to
greet the nessie in a snail gar go and a spitter.
or a bottle of blue nun and a pile of clams with an oster soup.... this
ultra's not made yet right......fine do phil way. I am sure more home
land secuirity is needed to guard the shores ther too.maybe sponcer by
master......and card.......

Tom Wheeler said:

Oh the Lord works in different ways.
unless the rock are piled near the water.
from Atlantis or to athens. mon soon doing any damage there?
under water run .

lol. Well, not quite under water. However, with the humidity and sweat,
sometimes I feel like doing the back stroke.

--
Phil M.

Phil M. said:

I never realized that this event was such a big deal. Is this one of
the premier inline events?

i don't know how i'd categorize it, but it's one of the few races in the
country longer than 26 miles. they also simultaneously offered a half
way race for people who wanted to "only" race 38 miles. if they can't
get enough participants to make the race break even, that's not a good
sign for inline racing. 🙁

Quoted message said:

Yes, I frequently run on the course. If you recall the route as it goes
through Suwanee and Lawrenceville, I run on Old Peachtree Rd from Route
20 to the intersection of Herrington Rd and Cruse Rd. I find it strange
that someone would be jealous of this running route. From an inline
skater's perspective with all traffic blocked off it could be nice.
There are several sections along Old Peachtree Rd that I would consider
treacherous. Parts of the road are just one lane each way with about a
6 inch shoulder and then grass that never gets mowed, so by August it
is about 1 or 2 feet high. If 2 cars are passing eachother (usually at
50+ MPH) while they are passing me, then I have no choice but stop and
stand in the grass or risk tripping over something that I cannot see.

they don't block off *all* traffic for the race, but they make all the
cars stop at intersections so the skaters have the right away there.
i guess i wouldn't like having cars pass at 50mph while i had to stand
in the bushes waiting for them to drive by, but i liked the fact that a
lot of
the route was so much more rural than i was used to. but i only raced
there once, so i don't remember specifically every part of the route,
and much of the time i was looking out for rocks/holes/sticks/garbage
that would make me trip and fall instead of looking at the scenery.

here are some pics of the route i usually run on now when i'm not
injured. this is why i said i was jealous:

http://www.zombiezodiac.com/rob/ped/duwamish/PB070048%20800x598.jpg
http://www.zombiezodiac.com/rob/ped/duwamish/PB070050%20800x598.jpg
http://www.fortunecity.com/marina/greatpier/120/81526011.jpg

what's depressing is that used to be river valley farm land many years
ago, but i guess they have to put the industrial stuff somewhere.

Quoted message said:

The steepest of the
course is when you turn right on Lebanon Rd from Sever Rd. This is
probably about a -7 to -8% downhill grade. On skates I would think this
would be frightening. I try to avoid this on easy days, especially
uphill. This part is about 1 mile from my home.

the funny thing about skaters is they all get in a single file line, so
the people
in the back are protected from air resistance. because of this, they go
faster on the
downhills than the people in front, so they "run into" them and push
them from behind to make everyone go even faster.

but on silver hill (i think that's the hill you're talking about) i
stepped out of the line
and just skated down on my own. the really scary thing about being in a
line on a downhill is that you can't see what's coming and if the
person in front of you goes down, you're probably screwed..it happened
to people i was with (not on silver hill, thank god), and one of them
dropped out because his knee was so scraped up. this is one thing i
never miss when i'm out running now- the terrifying crashes.

Quoted message said:

It looks like the event will happen for 2006, but who knows? If so,
I'll make it a point to watch it and maybe cheer you on!

lol, that would be nice, thank you! but there's a greater chance that i
would be running it than skating it now, and with my propensity to
running injury, that's not likely either 😉

hh

50 mile running option.

such energy is wasted
Remember a true ninja is a master of all things
a master of all environment
a master of himself focuse your thoughts of were we must go and leave
the shredder buried.

ultra ninja.
and pizza is o.k.

h squared said:

here are some pics of the route i usually run on now when i'm not
injured. this is why i said i was jealous:

I see your point now. Yikes!

Quoted message said:

what's depressing is that used to be river valley farm land many years
ago, but i guess they have to put the industrial stuff somewhere.

We have some industrial areas, but that's mostly in Atlanta and near
the airport on the south side. We have some business parks that are
actually quite pleasant for running, especially on nights and weekends
when there is no traffic. These work well for running intervals if I
don't feel like going to the track.

--
Phil M.