Ultegra vs. Dura-Ace?

For a triple, I'd opt for Ultegra. The DuraAce triple is nice, but has some problems sometimes with
the chain coming off the middle chainring up front. Ultegra weighs a little bit more, but you could
always create a hybrid by using a DuraAce rear derailluer, with Ultegra for the front der, crankset,
bb & shifters.

Eventually one suspects there will be a 10-speed DuraAce triple that works so well we'll all want
it, but for now, Ultegra looks like a very practical option. OR- heaven forbid that Peter read this-
consider a Campagnolo Chorus or Record 10-speed triple. Very nice stuff as well.

--Mike-- Chain Reaction Bicycles www.ChainReaction.com

"Emily" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

If you were spec'ing out a new carbon-fiber bike with Shimano components, which parts of the
grouppo would you choose Dura-Ace, and which Ultegra?

I

Quoted message said:

understand that at least for certain components, Ultegra might be

preferable

Quoted message said:

to DA.

Weight is important to me, but the ability to handle 4000-5000 miles a

year

Quoted message said:

without excessive maintenance/wear is even more important. I don't want

to

Quoted message said:

be replacing everything yearly if I can help it.

Oh, and I will be wanting a triple chainring on this bike, not double. I understand that DA is not
good for triples.

Many thanks in advance!

Emily

Quoted post said:

Originally posted by Emily
If you were spec'ing out a new carbon-fiber bike with Shimano components, which parts of the grouppo
would you choose Dura-Ace, and which Ultegra? I understand that at least for certain components,
Ultegra might be preferable to DA.

Weight is important to me, but the ability to handle 4000-5000 miles a year without excessive
maintenance/wear is even more important. I don't want to be replacing everything yearly if I
can help it.

Oh, and I will be wanting a triple chainring on this bike, not double. I understand that DA is not
good for triples.

Many thanks in advance!

Emily

I suggest 7700 series DA everywhere except crank, BB, & FD.
The 7800 front hub and 7800 DA brake calipers are also quite nice.
Have you tried the Campy Brifter levers?

"Emily" wrote in message

Quoted message said:

If you were spec'ing out a new carbon-fiber bike with Shimano components, which parts of the
grouppo would you choose Dura-Ace, and which Ultegra?

I understand that at least for certain components, Ultegra might be preferable

<< Mike Jacoubowsky responded: << The DuraAce triple is nice, but has some problems sometimes with
the chain coming off the middle chainring up front. Ultegra weighs a little bit more, but you could
always create a hybrid by using a DuraAce rear derailluer, with Ultegra for the front der,
crankset,bb & shifters.

Mike,

I've got two DA triple setups...and both function flawlessly. Both are installed on bikes with
chainstays a tad over 40 cm. They've both got reasonable milage on them...one is well over 5K miles
and two years old.

First kid on the block to have one.

Even with the funky triplizer setup and the ba**ard granny ring BCD, the ability to run a 39/53
really works well for me. The granny is a true granny in my case...and since I actually do use it as
a bailout, perhaps I'm not seeing what you've described, as the drop to the granny is not an every
ride thing...I've never dropped the chain on either bike, IIRC.

My only issue has been remembering to keep cable tension slack enuf to allow all trim functions. the
triple wants to be run much slacker than the double, IMHO...

PH

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

If you were spec'ing out a new carbon-fiber bike with Shimano components, which parts of the
grouppo would you choose Dura-Ace, and which Ultegra?

Pete Hausner said:

I've got two DA triple setups...and both function flawlessly. Both are installed on bikes with
chainstays a tad over 40 cm. They've both got reasonable milage on them...one is well over 5K
miles and two years old.

Even with the funky triplizer setup and the ba**ard granny ring BCD, the ability to run a 39/53
really works well for me.

That's an option with Ultegra too. We sell a lot of TA 38 tooth middle rings.

This also allows a more reasonable granny gear, we commonly do 26 tooth for that application, which
lets you use a nice tight rear cluster and still have a decent low "bail out" gear.

Sheldon "Custom Gearing" Brown +--------------------------------------------------------+
| In the final analysis, our most basic common link, | is that we all inhabit this small planet, |
| we all breathe the same air, | we all cherish our children's futures, | and we are all mortal.
| --John F. Kennedy |
+--------------------------------------------------------+ Harris Cyclery, West Newton,
Massachusetts Phone 617-244-9772 FAX 617-244-1041 harriscyclery.comharriscyclery.comOpen ↗ Hard-to-find parts
shipped Worldwide captainbike.comcaptainbike.comOpen ↗ sheldonbrown.comsheldonbrown.comOpen ↗

"Emily" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

If you were spec'ing out a new carbon-fiber bike with Shimano components, which parts of the
grouppo would you choose Dura-Ace, and which Ultegra?

I

Quoted message said:

understand that at least for certain components, Ultegra might be

preferable

Quoted message said:

to DA.

Weight is important to me, but the ability to handle 4000-5000 miles a

year

Quoted message said:

without excessive maintenance/wear is even more important. I don't want

to

Quoted message said:

be replacing everything yearly if I can help it.

Oh, and I will be wanting a triple chainring on this bike, not double. I understand that DA is not
good for triples.

Many thanks in advance!

Emily

I like the way the D/A shifters feel vs. the Ultegras, so that'd be the only thing I'd change.

Campy shifters and rear derailleur would go a ways towards eliminating possible triple "shifting
gremlins."

Mike

Quoted message said:

Mike,

I've got two DA triple setups...and both function flawlessly. Both are installed on bikes with
chainstays a tad over 40 cm. They've both got reasonable milage on them...one is well over 5K
miles and two years old.

Pete: There's quite a bit of variability in experience with the DuraAce triple. Two separate issues
make the difference- First, some of the early ones had very stiff left-side shift levers... stiff
enough that the effort made to get it to shift from middle to small front chainring became something
of an interruption in the "flow" of pedaling/shifting. We found that hand-selecting shifters with a
softer action took care of this problem nicely. The second issue has to do with the middle chainring
itself; some apparently had a slightly-different profiling that allowed the chain to come off a bit
too easily.

I should have placed more qualifications in my post, as some people have/had no issues at all with
the DuraAce triple, and others who experienced difficulties were, with a bit of patience, able to
have those problems either eliminated or greatly alleviated.

BUT... it remains the case the DuraAce triples are considerably more problematic in setup and
generally just fussier overall than the Ultegra triples (although, as mentioned above, this isn't
always the case, and it can generally be dealt with effectively). The Ultegra setup simply works,
period, each and every time. It's ironic, but I'd still say that the Ultegra triple sets the
standard for others to come to.

--Mike-- Chain Reaction Bicycles chainreactionbicycles.comchainreactionbicycles.comOpen ↗

"Pete Hausner" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"Emily" wrote in message

Quoted message said:

If you were spec'ing out a new carbon-fiber bike with Shimano

components,

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

which parts of the grouppo would you choose Dura-Ace, and which Ultegra?

I understand that at least for certain components, Ultegra might be preferable

<< Mike Jacoubowsky responded: << The DuraAce triple is nice, but has some problems sometimes
with the

chain

Quoted message said:

coming off the middle chainring up front. Ultegra weighs a little bit

more, but

Quoted message said:

you could always create a hybrid by using a DuraAce rear derailluer, with Ultegra for the
front der,

crankset,bb &

Quoted message said:

shifters.

Mike,

I've got two DA triple setups...and both function flawlessly. Both are installed on bikes with
chainstays a tad over 40 cm. They've both got reasonable milage on them...one is well over 5K
miles and two years old.

First kid on the block to have one.

Even with the funky triplizer setup and the ba**ard granny ring BCD, the ability to run a 39/53
really works well for me. The granny is a true

granny in

Quoted message said:

my case...and since I actually do use it as a bailout, perhaps I'm not

seeing

Quoted message said:

what you've described, as the drop to the granny is not an every ride thing...I've never dropped
the chain on either bike, IIRC.

My only issue has been remembering to keep cable tension slack enuf to

allow

Quoted message said:

all trim functions. the triple wants to be run much slacker than the

double,

Quoted message said:

IMHO...

PH

emil-<< If you were spec'ing out a new carbon-fiber bike with Shimano components, which parts of the
grouppo would you choose Dura-Ace, and which Ultegra?

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

<BR><BR>

You do know that DA 9s, double crank is pretty much out of production, yes?? Along with the crank
and crappy BB?

And unless you know of a good bike shop, like ours(;-)), it will be diffucult to mix groups when
using shimano-

<emilys-< Weight is important to me, but the ability to handle 4000-5000 miles a year without
excessive maintenance/wear is even more important. I don't want to be replacing everything yearly if
I can help it. >><BR><BR>

Just get DA 10s, if ya gotta get shimano. It will be supported for a few years, at least. ultegra as
you see it will also be essentially out of production for 2005.

But if weight and reliability/maintainability is important..look at 2004 Chorus-cheaper than DA, a
wee bit heavier, lighter than ultegra...same price with a carbon crank....

emily<< Oh, and I will be wanting a triple chainring on this bike, not double. I understand that DA
is not good for triples. >><BR><BR>

Then ya want ultegra or Campagnolo...

Peter Chisholm Vecchio's Bicicletteria 1833 Pearl St. Boulder, CO, 80302
(303)440-3535 vecchios.comvecchios.comOpen ↗ "Ruote convenzionali costruite eccezionalmente bene"

MikeJ-<< OR- heaven forbid that Peter read this- consider a Campagnolo Chorus or Record 10-speed
triple. Very nice stuff as well. >><BR><BR>

Reality, what a concept.....

Peter Chisholm Vecchio's Bicicletteria 1833 Pearl St. Boulder, CO, 80302
(303)440-3535 vecchios.comvecchios.comOpen ↗ "Ruote convenzionali costruite eccezionalmente bene"

Emily said:

If you were spec'ing out a new carbon-fiber bike with Shimano components, which parts of the
grouppo would you choose Dura-Ace, and which Ultegra? I understand that at least for certain
components, Ultegra might be preferable to DA.

Don't specify Shimano, especially if you are thinking about a triple. Specify Campy. If you get
either Centaur or Chorus 10 sp, you can shift Shimano 9, Shimano 10, Campy 9 or 10 and any
reasonable crankset. In addition to a triple, you might also choose a 50x34 double and a 13/29 x 10
sp cassette and go anywhere anytime. You won't wear the stuff out. The parts that do wear are
easilly replaced.

If Ultegra is a reliable and functional groupset, aren't there better places to spend $500 than on
upgrading to DuraAce, if you're on a fixed budget?

Kinky Cowboy

*Your milage may vary Batteries not included May contain traces of nuts.

"Mike Jacoubowsky/Chain Reaction Bicycles" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

...but you could always create a hybrid by using a DuraAce rear derailluer, with Ultegra for the
front der, crankset, bb & shifters.

What is the issue with DA front der?

Mish

Hi Emily:

I think much of this kind of issue has to do with what you WANT to have on your bike. Let me start
by saying that I've never had Dura Ace. I ride about 1/2 as much as you do (our summers are short
here in New England). My last bike had a full Ultegra and I liked it very much. Priorities in the
past few years have changed and now I ride an aluminum/carbon Klein with a mix of Tiagra and 105
components. I've put several thousand miles it and the performance is 95% of the Ultegra set and the
stuff stays in tune and seems no worse for wear.

This is my perspective: The weight difference between Ultegra and Dura Ace is almost nothing (unless
you are competing at a high level). The fell and performance of Ultegra is very good. And from my 15
years of riding with people (including shop owners who can buy whatever they want) the real key to
longevity is keeping the stuff clean and lubed, and chage your chain often. If you do this, ANY of
the quallity stuff on the market willgive you the service life you need. I ride with a guy who has
25,000 miles on mid-level SunTour components from the early '90's. And lets remember- the people who
really put wear on their drive train are the hard core tourers. They load their bikes up with 50+
lbs. and ride through all kinds of weather year in and year out... Shimano 105 has been the mainstay
of these products.

But in the end... this is all about our hobby. And there's nothing like a Dura Ace logo on your
bike... if you can afford it, you don't have to justify it's expense. But Ultegra will just about
everything you want and then some...

Hope this helps.

Glen

In article <[email hidden]>, Emily

Quoted message said:

If you were spec'ing out a new carbon-fiber bike with Shimano components, which parts of the
grouppo would you choose Dura-Ace, and which Ultegra? I understand that at least for certain
components, Ultegra might be preferable to DA.

Weight is important to me, but the ability to handle 4000-5000 miles a year without excessive
maintenance/wear is even more important. I don't want to be replacing everything yearly if I can
help it.

Oh, and I will be wanting a triple chainring on this bike, not double. I understand that DA is not
good for triples.

Many thanks in advance!

Emily

Sheldon Brown <[email hidden]> wrote in :"]news:[email hidden]:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

If you were spec'ing out a new carbon-fiber bike with Shimano components, which parts of the
grouppo would you choose Dura-Ace, and which Ultegra?

Pete Hausner said:

I've got two DA triple setups...and both function flawlessly. Both are installed on bikes with
chainstays a tad over 40 cm. They've both got reasonable milage on them...one is well over 5K
miles and two years old.

Even with the funky triplizer setup and the ba**ard granny ring BCD, the ability to run a 39/53
really works well for me.

That's an option with Ultegra too. We sell a lot of TA 38 tooth middle rings.

This also allows a more reasonable granny gear, we commonly do 26 tooth for that application,
which lets you use a nice tight rear cluster and still have a decent low "bail out" gear.

I much prefer a 42 tooth middle ring over a 39 - just too much of a gap between a 53 and a 39 which
causes you to shift a lot in the back when changing chainrings. Combined with a 12x27 cassette the
30 tooth ring gives a great low gear - sweet!

My criticism of the Ultegra group is the front shifter - no trim setting for the big ring. It really
needs one, especially with that flexy hollow crank.

In article said:

Quoted message said:

Even with the funky triplizer setup and the ba**ard granny ring BCD, the ability to run a 39/53
really works well for me.

That's an option with Ultegra too. We sell a lot of TA 38 tooth middle rings.

How well do they shift with the Ultegra derailleur that's designed for a 10t middle-outer chainring
difference?

Or do you need a DA derailleur, and thence DA shifters?

Eric

Quoted post said:

Originally posted by Paul Kopit

Don't specify Shimano, especially if you are thinking about a triple. Specify Campy. If you get
either Centaur or Chorus 10 sp, you can shift Shimano 9, Shimano 10, Campy 9 or 10 and any
reasonable crankset. In addition to a triple, you might also choose a 50x34 double and a 13/29 x 10
sp cassette and go anywhere anytime. You won't wear the stuff out. The parts that do wear are
easilly replaced.

Interesting. I'd never really considered Campy, mostly because I've only used Shimano on any of multiple bikes in the past and present. I love the idea of a double, just never thought I could manage the bigger hills, but with that setup you mention, I'd have as low a gear as I have now with my granny!

I was checking out roadbikereview.com reviews of Campy Chorus, and someone mentioned that Campy is not compatible with as many wheelsets as Shimano. That might be an issue for me as this bike will have 650C wheels, which already limits the wheelsets I can consider. My top two choices at present are Bontrager Race Lites and Mavic Kysirium Elites. Do you know whether either of those are compatible with Campy? Just in case I decide to go that route - I definitely saw a lot of positive reviews of the Chorus groupo.

Thanks!
Emily

"Mike DeMicco" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I much prefer a 42 tooth middle ring over a 39 - just too much of a gap between a 53 and a 39
which causes you to shift a lot in the back when changing chainrings. Combined with a 12x27
cassette the 30 tooth ring gives a great low gear - sweet!

I'm finding my stock Ultegra triple to be ideal -- the smaller front shifts are very useful. This is
especially true because (unlike Ergo) you can't grab more than 2-3 gears on the rear at once. So for
small shifts you can use the rear, but for big ones you can just use the chainrings. This is
probably what Shimano intended, and it works very well.

Some riders have some weird macho hangup about not using the inner ring except as a bailout, but
that's just stupid. If you don't need the range, you might as well make full use of what you have,
optimize your chainline, and spread the wear around. Splitting hairs here -- for most of my rides, I
could get away with a double and a 12-27 cassette, but I prefer my triple with a 12-25, or even a
12-23. I like those smaller front shifts.

Quoted message said:

My criticism of the Ultegra group is the front shifter - no trim setting for the big ring. It
really needs one, especially with that flexy hollow crank.

I think the latest ones have it, but I'm not sure. Mine doesn't. I'm lucky -- I can adjust the
rubbing out of my drivetrain. But not everyone can, depending on their bike. This is definately a
nit worth picking.

Matt O.

Quoted message said:

I was checking out roadbikereview.com reviews of Campy Chorus, and someone mentioned that Campy is
not compatible with as many wheelsets as Shimano.

You can use campy with Shimano wheelsets. B

(remove clothes to reply)

Emily-<< I was checking out roadbikereview.com reviews of Campy Chorus, and someone mentioned that
Campy is not compatible with as many wheelsets as Shimano. >><BR><BR>

Geeezzz, the internet. Campagnolo 9 or 10s is compatible with a shimano 9 and 10s wheel...

emily-<< My top two choices at present are Bontrager Race Lites and Mavic Kysirium Elites

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

<BR><BR>

650c?? Didn't know they made 650c in ksyriums...

Peter Chisholm Vecchio's Bicicletteria 1833 Pearl St. Boulder, CO, 80302
(303)440-3535 vecchios.comvecchios.comOpen ↗ "Ruote convenzionali costruite eccezionalmente bene"

Somebody asserted about Dura-Ace triples:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Even with the funky triplizer setup and the ba**ard granny ring BCD, the ability to run a 39/53
really works well for me.

I replied:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

That's an option with Ultegra too. We sell a lot of TA 38 tooth middle rings.

A shy person asked:

Quoted message said:

How well do they shift with the Ultegra derailleur that's designed for a 10t middle-outer
chainring difference?

Fine, generally, though some folks also sub out a smaller big ring.

Quoted message said:

Or do you need a DA derailleur, and thence DA shifters?

I suspect a Dura-Ace derailer would work better. I don't see why you would need Dura-Ace
shifters though.

Sheldon "Let's Not Make It Seem Harder Than It Is" Brown
+---------------------------------------------+
| Television: | A medium. So called because it is | neither rare nor well done. | --Ernie
| Kovacs |
+---------------------------------------------+ Harris Cyclery, West Newton, Massachusetts Phone
617-244-9772 FAX 617-244-1041 harriscyclery.comharriscyclery.comOpen ↗ Hard-to-find parts shipped Worldwide
captainbike.comcaptainbike.comOpen ↗ sheldonbrown.comsheldonbrown.comOpen ↗