Road Cycling · Public discussion

Ullrich versus Armstrong, the difference

M. Wehrmann · 2003-07-26T09:30:28+00:00

The difference between Ullrich and Armstrong: - When Ullrich crashed in 2001 and Armstrong did wait for him the first thing Jan did was saying "Thank You" to Armstrong. (That moment Armstrong in Yellow was some minutes better in the GC). - When Armstrong crashed some days ago and Ullrich did wait for him, Armstrong came back and attacked immediately. No 'thank you'. (That moment Ullrich was neither in Yellow nor leading the GC a couple of minutes, but 15 sec behind Armstrong). That's the difference! And that's the reason Armstrong will always get respect in Europe but never be popular. He never will be called an real "Real Champion". No charisma - only a strong racing machine. Manuel

Started by M. Wehrmann · 26 July 2003 · Last activity 27 July 2003 · 24 posts · 1,176 views

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01 / Original postUllrich versus Armstrong, the differenceM. Wehrmann · 26 Jul 2003 02 / This pagePosts 1–20Page 1 of 2 · chronological order 03 / Latest replyPost #24Joeg · 27 Jul 2003

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Original section: Road Cycling
Published: 26 July 2003
Last activity: 27 July 2003
Original author: M. Wehrmann
Posts: 24
Discussion status: Public discussion
Total views: 1,176
Views / 30 days: 0
Topics: Jan Ullrich

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Original post
M. Wehrmann
Archived post

26 July 2003, 09:30 UTC #1

The difference between Ullrich and Armstrong:
- When Ullrich crashed in 2001 and Armstrong did wait for him the first thing Jan did was saying
"Thank You" to Armstrong. (That moment Armstrong in Yellow was some minutes better in the GC).
- When Armstrong crashed some days ago and Ullrich did wait for him, Armstrong came back and
attacked immediately. No 'thank you'. (That moment Ullrich was neither in Yellow nor leading the
GC a couple of minutes, but 15 sec behind Armstrong).
That's the difference!
And that's the reason Armstrong will always get respect in Europe but never be popular. He never
will be called an real "Real Champion".
No charisma - only a strong racing machine.
Manuel

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David N. Welton
Archived post

26 July 2003, 09:45 UTC #2

If Lance isn't popular, it isn't because of exchanging pleasantries or not with the other riders,
but because he doesn't really race much else than the Tour.
--
David N. Welton Consulting: dedasys.comdedasys.com Personal: dedasys.comdavidw Free
Software: dedasys.comfreesoftware Apache Tcl: tcl.apache.orgtcl.apache.org

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Sm
Archived post

26 July 2003, 10:15 UTC #3

what, you mean the same way that Indurain & Lemond only prepared for the TdF?
"David N. Welton" <[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...
Quoted message said:

If Lance isn't popular, it isn't because of exchanging pleasantries or not with the other riders,
but because he doesn't really race much else than the Tour.
--
David N. Welton Consulting: dedasys.comdedasys.com Personal: dedasys.comdavidw Free
Software: dedasys.comfreesoftware Apache Tcl: tcl.apache.orgtcl.apache.org

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Gerrit Stolte
Archived post

26 July 2003, 10:30 UTC #4

M. Wehrmann said:
The difference between Ullrich and Armstrong:
- When Ullrich crashed in 2001 and Armstrong did wait for him the first thing Jan did was saying
"Thank You" to Armstrong. (That moment Armstrong in Yellow was some minutes better in the GC).
- When Armstrong crashed some days ago and Ullrich did wait for him, Armstrong came back and
attacked immediately. No 'thank you'. (That moment Ullrich was neither in Yellow nor leading the
GC a couple of minutes, but 15 sec behind Armstrong).
That's the difference!
And that's the reason Armstrong will always get respect in Europe but never be popular. He never
will be called an real "Real Champion".
No charisma - only a strong racing machine.
Manuel
Troll

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David N. Welton
Archived post

26 July 2003, 10:30 UTC #5

SM said:
what, you mean the same way that Indurain & Lemond only prepared for the TdF?
Right. Riders like Jalabert, I think, are more popular in the public's eye. Of course, as numerous
people have noted here before, LeMond was much more of an all around rider before his accident.
--
David N. Welton Consulting: dedasys.comdedasys.com Personal: dedasys.comdavidw Free
Software: dedasys.comfreesoftware Apache Tcl: tcl.apache.orgtcl.apache.org

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Bruce
Archived post

26 July 2003, 10:45 UTC #6

No. Armstrong did not attack immediately. He didn't even attack. Mayo attacked, and was quickly
caught. Then about 60 seconds later Mayo attacked again, Lance responded and countered with the
final attack of the day.
-Bruce
"M. Wehrmann" <[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...
Quoted message said:
The difference between Ullrich and Armstrong:
- When Ullrich crashed in 2001 and Armstrong did wait for him the first thing Jan did was saying
"Thank You" to Armstrong. (That moment Armstrong in Yellow was some minutes better in the GC).
- When Armstrong crashed some days ago and Ullrich did wait for him, Armstrong came back and
attacked immediately. No 'thank you'. (That moment Ullrich was neither in Yellow nor leading
the GC a couple of minutes, but 15 sec behind Armstrong).
That's the difference!
And that's the reason Armstrong will always get respect in Europe but

never
Quoted message said:
be popular. He never will be called an real "Real Champion".
No charisma - only a strong racing machine.
Manuel

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Oscar Mannheim
Archived post

26 July 2003, 11:30 UTC #7

yep, that's why all the riders in the peloton wants Jan Ullrich to win the Tour today:
cyclingnews.comnews
"M. Wehrmann" <[email hidden]> skrev i meddelandet
"]news:[email hidden]...
Quoted message said:
The difference between Ullrich and Armstrong:
- When Ullrich crashed in 2001 and Armstrong did wait for him the first thing Jan did was saying
"Thank You" to Armstrong. (That moment Armstrong in Yellow was some minutes better in the GC).
- When Armstrong crashed some days ago and Ullrich did wait for him, Armstrong came back and
attacked immediately. No 'thank you'. (That moment Ullrich was neither in Yellow nor leading
the GC a couple of minutes, but 15 sec behind Armstrong).
That's the difference!
And that's the reason Armstrong will always get respect in Europe but

never
Quoted message said:
be popular. He never will be called an real "Real Champion".
No charisma - only a strong racing machine.
Manuel

Report
News.Itd.Umich.
Archived post

26 July 2003, 11:30 UTC #8

I am not totally familiar w/ the etiquettes/tradition of TdF but one question I have is
if Ullrich cuts significantly cuts into Armstrong lead on Saturday then can he attack on Sunday at
Champs Elysee to overtake Armstrong and win it? (or vice versa: if Ullrich actually overtakes and
then Armstrong attack on the last day to regain the yellow jersey).
I keep reading that today is the deciding day, like the last day into Paris is just ceremonial w/
nobody allowed to attack...
Thanks
"Oscar Mannheim" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...
Quoted message said:
yep, that's why all the riders in the peloton wants Jan Ullrich to win

the
Quoted message said:
Tour today: cyclingnews.comnews
"M. Wehrmann" <[email hidden]> skrev i meddelandet
"]news:[email hidden]...
Quoted message said:
The difference between Ullrich and Armstrong:
- When Ullrich crashed in 2001 and Armstrong did wait for him the first thing Jan did was
saying "Thank You" to Armstrong. (That moment Armstrong in Yellow was some minutes better in
the GC).
- When Armstrong crashed some days ago and Ullrich did wait for him, Armstrong came back and
attacked immediately. No 'thank you'. (That moment Ullrich was neither in Yellow nor leading
the GC a couple

of
Quoted message said:
Quoted message said:
minutes, but 15 sec behind Armstrong).
That's the difference!
And that's the reason Armstrong will always get respect in Europe but

never
Quoted message said:
be popular. He never will be called an real "Real Champion".
No charisma - only a strong racing machine.
Manuel

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Ewoud Dronkert
Archived post

26 July 2003, 11:45 UTC #9

news.itd.umich.edu said:
I keep reading that today is the deciding day, like the last day into Paris is just ceremonial w/
nobody allowed to attack...
From janullrich.denews archiv.php3
"Und wenn es nach dem Zeitfahren am Sonntag nur wenige Sekunden sind, die uns trennen. Dann ist es
legitim, auch am Sonntag zu attackieren. Egal, ob Lance oder ich dann in Führung liegt."
And if after the timetrial only a few seconds separate us on Sunday. Then it is legitimate to
attack, also on Sunday. No matter if either Lance has or I have the lead.

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Andy Coggan
Archived post

26 July 2003, 12:15 UTC #10

"M. Wehrmann" <[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...
Quoted message said:
The difference between Ullrich and Armstrong:
- When Ullrich crashed in 2001 and Armstrong did wait for him the first thing Jan did was saying
"Thank You" to Armstrong. (That moment Armstrong in Yellow was some minutes better in the GC).
- When Armstrong crashed some days ago and Ullrich did wait for him, Armstrong came back and
attacked immediately. No 'thank you'. (That moment Ullrich was neither in Yellow nor leading
the GC a couple of minutes, but 15 sec behind Armstrong).
That's the difference!
And that's the reason Armstrong will always get respect in Europe but

never
Quoted message said:
be popular. He never will be called an real "Real Champion".
No charisma - only a strong racing machine.
Yawn.
Andy Coggan
P.S. Get your facts straight:
1) a full minute (a lifetime in the heat of competition) elapsed between Armstrong's return to the
leading group and his final attack.
2) it was Mayo, not Armstrong, who initiated the final fireworks.
3) wearing yellow carries with it certain rights (and some responsibilities) - one of those rights
being that people will wait for you,
e.g., if you stop to relieve yourself. Anybody who *hadn't* waited for Armstrong would have been
heavily criticized - the same isn't true w/ regards to Ullrich's offroad endo in 2001, or
Beloki's crash this year.
Andy Coggan

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Amg
Archived post

26 July 2003, 12:45 UTC #11

Quoted message said:
1) a full minute (a lifetime in the heat of competition) elapsed between Armstrong's return to the
leading group and his final attack.
2) it was Mayo, not Armstrong, who initiated the final fireworks.
One other point: When the Armstrong-Mayo pileup occurred, Ullrich swerved to avoid it, but the
replays show that he immediately took off up the hill. Although the leading group may have held up
for a minute while Lance remounted, Jan's first response seems to have been to race ahead. What
happened between the time he shot off the screen and the time the leading group of riders was shown
holding back waiting was apparently not filmed.

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Oscar Mannheim
Archived post

26 July 2003, 13:15 UTC #12

Quoted message said:
One other point: When the Armstrong-Mayo pileup occurred, Ullrich swerved

to
Quoted message said:
avoid it, but the replays show that he immediately took off up the hill.
off course he took off up the hill, do you want him to stop cycling?

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Gerrit Stolte
Archived post

26 July 2003, 13:30 UTC #13

AMG said:
Quoted message said:
1) a full minute (a lifetime in the heat of competition) elapsed between Armstrong's return to
the leading group and his final attack.
2) it was Mayo, not Armstrong, who initiated the final fireworks.
One other point: When the Armstrong-Mayo pileup occurred, Ullrich swerved to avoid it, but the
replays show that he immediately took off up the hill.
Bollocks
Quoted message said:
Although the leading group may have held up for a minute while Lance remounted, Jan's first
response seems to have been to race ahead. What happened between the time he shot off the screen
and the time the leading group of riders was shown holding back waiting was apparently not filmed.

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Robert Chambers
Archived post

26 July 2003, 14:19 UTC #14

This is complete [censored]. When Armstrong had barely reached the group of Ullrich, Mayo attacked
immediately. Lance had no chance for recovery from the chase back at all. Mayo let up and Lance was
able to work his way up through the Ullrich group, but then Mayo attacked again. Lance followed
Mayo's attack, then took off around him.
Its amazing how people with a strong bias can twist obvious facts as you have.
Bob C. "M. Wehrmann" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...
Quoted message said:
The difference between Ullrich and Armstrong:
- When Ullrich crashed in 2001 and Armstrong did wait for him the first thing Jan did was saying
"Thank You" to Armstrong. (That moment Armstrong in Yellow was some minutes better in the GC).
- When Armstrong crashed some days ago and Ullrich did wait for him, Armstrong came back and
attacked immediately. No 'thank you'. (That moment Ullrich was neither in Yellow nor leading
the GC a couple of minutes, but 15 sec behind Armstrong).
That's the difference!
And that's the reason Armstrong will always get respect in Europe but

never
Quoted message said:
be popular. He never will be called an real "Real Champion".
No charisma - only a strong racing machine.
Manuel

Report
David Corsi
Archived post

26 July 2003, 15:30 UTC #15

LETS MAKE THIS CLEAR... Armstrong DID NOT attack when he rejoined, he responded to an attack from
Mayo. End of story.

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Kiem Madvanen
Archived post

26 July 2003, 15:30 UTC #16

"Bruce" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...
Quoted message said:
No. Armstrong did not attack immediately. He didn't even attack. Mayo attacked, and was quickly
caught. Then about 60 seconds later Mayo attacked again, Lance responded and countered with the
final attack of the day.
Manuel isn't interested in facts, only opinions. His.

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Kurgan Gringion
Archived post

26 July 2003, 16:31 UTC #17

"Oscar Mannheim" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...
Quoted message said:
yep, that's why all the riders in the peloton wants Jan Ullrich to win

the
Quoted message said:
Tour today: cyclingnews.comnews
In the article you reference: 6 for JAN, 5 for LANCE (Pevenage doesn't count)
all the riders.

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Dashi Toshii
Archived post

26 July 2003, 20:45 UTC #18

"Oscar Mannheim" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...
Quoted message said:
yep, that's why all the riders in the peloton wants Jan Ullrich to win

the
Quoted message said:
Tour today: cyclingnews.comnews
You must have a reading comprehension problem, back to school for you!
Dashii

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Todd Kuzma
Archived post

26 July 2003, 20:45 UTC #19

Kurgan Gringioni said:
"Oscar Mannheim" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...
Quoted message said:
yep, that's why all the riders in the peloton wants Jan Ullrich to win
the
Quoted message said:
Tour today: cyclingnews.comnews
In the article you reference: 6 for JAN, 5 for LANCE (Pevenage doesn't count)
all the riders.
The riders were asked who they thought would win, not who they wanted to win. Plus, the question was
asked by German television. You think the riders might be playing some politics here? I wonder what
the answers would be if they were asked by OLN.
Todd Kuzma

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Tom Kunich
Archived post

26 July 2003, 23:15 UTC #20

Where do you get these things? In the film at the time you could see as Ullrich came back into the
group that the first one to talk was Lance asking him how he was.
"M. Wehrmann" <[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...
Quoted message said:
The difference between Ullrich and Armstrong:
- When Ullrich crashed in 2001 and Armstrong did wait for him the first thing Jan did was saying
"Thank You" to Armstrong. (That moment Armstrong in Yellow was some minutes better in the GC).
- When Armstrong crashed some days ago and Ullrich did wait for

him,
Quoted message said:
Armstrong came back and attacked immediately. No 'thank you'. (That moment Ullrich was neither in
Yellow nor leading the GC a

couple of
Quoted message said:
minutes, but 15 sec behind Armstrong).
That's the difference!
And that's the reason Armstrong will always get respect in Europe

but never
Quoted message said:
be popular. He never will be called an real "Real Champion".
No charisma - only a strong racing machine.
Manuel

Report

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