Ullrich...the end ?

Keith said:

I've been a fan of Ullrich since the last ITT in 1996 when he almost
beat Mr 60% overall and through the years in spite of his
shortcomings, but wow...

Seeing him being caught today by Armstrong is really the nail in his
racing carreer, how friggin' pathetic. Sure, he ran into a car
yesterday, his team car...and how many cyclists do you know who've run
into cars over the years ? You get what you deserve...

It might be a very bad sign for his chances in this tour, but all
besides 5 people would've been caught by Lance today. And the only one
in this group with real GT chances should be Vino.
Should all the others now end their career?

Keith said:

I've been a fan of Ullrich since the last ITT in 1996 when he almost
beat Mr 60% overall and through the years in spite of his
shortcomings, but wow...

Seeing him being caught today by Armstrong is really the nail in his
racing carreer, how friggin' pathetic. Sure, he ran into a car
yesterday, his team car...and how many cyclists do you know who've run
into cars over the years ? You get what you deserve...

I've always like Vino. I would like to see Ullrich fall off quickly
enough that Vino gets a shot at GC. I doubt that it'll happen, though.
Finishing 1.12 down is probably disappointing for Ullrich but I don't
think it's a nail in any coffin.

On the other hand, we can stick a fork in Iban Mayo.

Ernst Noch said:

It might be a very bad sign for his chances in this tour, but all
besides 5 people would've been caught by Lance today. And the only one
in this group with real GT chances should be Vino.
Should all the others now end their career?

Dumbass -

The point is:

Ullrich is no longer what he was. Still a good rider, but as a rival to
LANCE, he's over the hill.

thanks,

K. Gringioni.

Kurgan Gringioni said:

Ernst Noch said:

It might be a very bad sign for his chances in this tour, but all
besides 5 people would've been caught by Lance today. And the only one
in this group with real GT chances should be Vino.
Should all the others now end their career?

Dumbass -

The point is:

Ullrich is no longer what he was. Still a good rider, but as a rival to
LANCE, he's over the hill.

thanks,

K. Gringioni.

Is he suddenly going to become a climber?
Is he suddently going to become a sprinter?

No, I'm afraid last years 4th might be a good goal. The big question
is 'what is this going to do inside T-Mobile over the next few days.
Lot's of alpha males waiting to lead.

D

Tim Lines said:

Keith said:

I've been a fan of Ullrich since the last ITT in 1996 when he almost
beat Mr 60% overall and through the years in spite of his
shortcomings, but wow...

Seeing him being caught today by Armstrong is really the nail in his
racing carreer, how friggin' pathetic. Sure, he ran into a car
yesterday, his team car...and how many cyclists do you know who've run
into cars over the years ? You get what you deserve...

I've always like Vino. I would like to see Ullrich fall off quickly
enough that Vino gets a shot at GC. I doubt that it'll happen, though.
Finishing 1.12 down is probably disappointing for Ullrich but I don't
think it's a nail in any coffin.

On the other hand, we can stick a fork in Iban Mayo.

Tim I've been thinking the same thing for a worst case scenario. If
Jan isn't going to be able to challenge for the win, then I was hoping
it'd show really quickly so they could switch over and put all their
support behind Vino. We'll have to see how it goes. jan could've been
just stiff and bruised up today and 19km isn't really enough to really
get loosened up even with a proper warm-up. At least Lance has had a
week or so tom recover from his little incident. I'm not ready to write
him off yet, but I sincerely hope that T-Mobile has a couple of backup
plans ready to go.
Bill C

"Kurgan Gringioni" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...> Dumbass -

Quoted message said:

The point is:

Ullrich is no longer what he was. Still a good rider, but as a rival to
LANCE, he's over the hill.

thanks,

K. Gringioni.

I think the question now is: How bad will Armstrong's bad day be? He
usually has one, but hangs in and keeps his losses to a minimum.

m.

Kurgan Gringioni said:

Ernst Noch said:

It might be a very bad sign for his chances in this tour, but all
besides 5 people would've been caught by Lance today. And the only one
in this group with real GT chances should be Vino.
Should all the others now end their career?

Dumbass -

The point is:

Ullrich is no longer what he was. Still a good rider, but as a rival to
LANCE, he's over the hill.

You might well be right. But what I'm up to: if you apply that logic,
the tour is already nearly over. Looking at the Gaps of maybe GC
contenders to Armstrong, most are even more toast than Ulrich:

Vino +0:51
Landis +1:00
(Igor GdG) +1:Ö4
Julich +1:05
Ullrich +1:06
Leipheimer +1:11
Basso +1:23
Botero +1:29
Savoldelli +1:33
Beloki +2:03
Zubeldia +2:18
Heras +2:18
Mayo +3:13 !

Add to that that most will get even more time in the TTT, it's looking bad.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

The point is:

Ullrich is no longer what he was. Still a good rider, but as a rival to
LANCE, he's over the hill.

You might well be right. But what I'm up to: if you apply that logic,
the tour is already nearly over. Looking at the Gaps of maybe GC
contenders to Armstrong, most are even more toast than Ulrich:

No because most of the other guys have a shot in the mountains,
Ullrich likely not, best he can hope for is keep up with Armstrong
something he's never been able to do since 2000 when Armstrong really
went at it, except in Joux-Plane in 2000 I guess.

Quoted message said:

Vino +-0:51
Landis +-1:00
(Igor GdG) +-1:+ANY-4
Julich +-1:05
Ullrich +-1:06
Leipheimer +-1:11
Basso +-1:23
Botero +-1:29
Savoldelli +-1:33
Beloki +-2:03
Zubeldia +-2:18
Heras +-2:18
Mayo +-3:13 !

Add to that that most will get even more time in the TTT, it's looking bad.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Ullrich is no longer what he was. Still a good rider, but as a rival to
LANCE, he's over the hill.

thanks,

K. Gringioni.

I think the question now is: How bad will Armstrong's bad day be? He
usually has one, but hangs in and keeps his losses to a minimum.

hum...if memory servers, he's had two bad days since 1999, in 2000 in
Joux-Plane and the first ITT in 2003.

Quoted message said:

m.

Ullrich is way off form if he allows himself to be beat by Hincapie.
This was no fluke since the TT was 20km, then there was ample distance
for Jan to adjust.

"Tim Lines" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Keith said:

I've been a fan of Ullrich since the last ITT in 1996 when he almost
beat Mr 60% overall and through the years in spite of his
shortcomings, but wow...

Seeing him being caught today by Armstrong is really the nail in his
racing carreer, how friggin' pathetic. Sure, he ran into a car
yesterday, his team car...and how many cyclists do you know who've run
into cars over the years ? You get what you deserve...

I've always like Vino. I would like to see Ullrich fall off quickly
enough that Vino gets a shot at GC. I doubt that it'll happen, though.
Finishing 1.12 down is probably disappointing for Ullrich but I don't
think it's a nail in any coffin.

On the other hand, we can stick a fork in Iban Mayo.

Well I think he crashed riding his TT bike; seeing the back of the car he
went into I reckon his TT bike had to be replaced- obviously even if all the
measurements are the same, it still will feel a bit off and he will be a bit
slower as a result. In other words stage 1 TT time might not be as fully
indicative of his form as it really is. Although I believe from long ago Jan
is not the next tour champion, I think he will help ensure the pace is kept
high for most of the tour and this might result in Lance cracking and
handing the crown to someone else ( Vini or Basso )

Laz

Quoted message said:

Ullrich is way off form if he allows himself to be beat by Hincapie.
This was no fluke since the TT was 20km, then there was ample distance
for Jan to adjust.

Yes, it's mind boggling that he couldn't do any better today after
preparing almost exclusively for that race, very unprofessional, but
at least he's got to deal with the humiliation of being caught by
Armstrong, far worse than the "killer look" of 2001 if you ask me !

Keith a écrit :

Quoted message said:

I've been a fan of Ullrich since the last ITT in 1996 when he almost
beat Mr 60% overall and through the years in spite of his
shortcomings, but wow...

Seeing him being caught today by Armstrong is really the nail in his
racing carreer, how friggin' pathetic. Sure, he ran into a car
yesterday, his team car...and how many cyclists do you know who've run
into cars over the years ? You get what you deserve...

One time that I agree with Bernard Hinault who said on TV
that it is ridiculous to motorpace behind a car right before
the start of the race on a fairly busy road, you should do it
somewhere out in the country, if you need to.

Moreover, Kummer said he signalled
Ullrich he was slowing down by waving from his sunroof!
How stupid is that, obviously, you have your nose to the stem
and won't be looking up. When I was motorpacing at my
lowly level, I would invariably honk my horn if I need to
brake, and that was on a motorcycle, which presents no danger
in itself.

-ilan

Quoted message said:

Seeing him being caught today by Armstrong is really the nail in his

Quoted message said:

racing carreer, how friggin' pathetic. Sure, he ran into a car
yesterday, his team car...and how many cyclists do you know who've run
into cars over the years ? You get what you deserve...

One time that I agree with Bernard Hinault who said on TV
that it is ridiculous to motorpace behind a car right before
the start of the race on a fairly busy road, you should do it
somewhere out in the country, if you need to.

Moreover, Kummer said he signalled
Ullrich he was slowing down by waving from his sunroof!
How stupid is that, obviously, you have your nose to the stem
and won't be looking up. When I was motorpacing at my
lowly level, I would invariably honk my horn if I need to
brake, and that was on a motorcycle, which presents no danger
in itself.

Yes, that Telekom team seems to be doing everything wrong each time
they can, failing to prepare Ullrich properly since 1998, "killing"
the carreer of Livingston, halting the ones of Evans, Botero or
Salvodelli. Must be a real bunch of idiots over there !

Keith a écrit :

Quoted message said:

Yes, that Telekom team seems to be doing everything wrong each time
they can, failing to prepare Ullrich properly since 1998, "killing"
the carreer of Livingston, halting the ones of Evans, Botero or
Salvodelli. Must be a real bunch of idiots over there !

And Julich, and Ullrich who had his best result against Armstrong
when he wasn't on Telekom. You got to wonder how well Vino would
have done if he had stuck with AG2R.

-ilan

"David Ferguson" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Is he suddenly going to become a climber?
Is he suddently going to become a sprinter?

No, I'm afraid last years 4th might be a good goal. The big question
is 'what is this going to do inside T-Mobile over the next few days.
Lot's of alpha males waiting to lead.

Maybe I should start betting with you guys that Jan not only gets a second
but that he makes Lance work.

On Sun, 03 Jul 2005 02:34:40 GMT, "Tom Kunich" <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

"David Ferguson" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Is he suddenly going to become a climber?
Is he suddently going to become a sprinter?

No, I'm afraid last years 4th might be a good goal. The big question
is 'what is this going to do inside T-Mobile over the next few days.
Lot's of alpha males waiting to lead.

Maybe I should start betting with you guys that Jan not only gets a second
but that he makes Lance work.

Well, I certainly wouldn't bet against him as we all know that he
strengthens as the tour goes on. Being at the bottom of the bottom of
stage 15 in '98 and turning around to make a great climb right
after....

But you've got to know that this TT isn't a good indication. This
event should have been one of his better stages.

D

Ernst Noch said:

Kurgan Gringioni said:

Ernst Noch said:

It might be a very bad sign for his chances in this tour, but all
besides 5 people would've been caught by Lance today. And the only one
in this group with real GT chances should be Vino.
Should all the others now end their career?

Dumbass -

The point is:

Ullrich is no longer what he was. Still a good rider, but as a rival to
LANCE, he's over the hill.

You might well be right. But what I'm up to: if you apply that logic,
the tour is already nearly over. Looking at the Gaps of maybe GC
contenders to Armstrong, most are even more toast than Ulrich:

Dumbass -

The reason I say that is because when Ullrich provided Armstrong's
greatest challenge (in 2004), he was much better in the TT.

Whenever he's worse in the TT, he hasn't provided the truly threatening
challenge, and when has he ever finished 12th?

Doesn't look good for the Sausage Creature.

thanks,

K. Gringioni.

Keith said:

I've been a fan of Ullrich since the last ITT in 1996 when he almost
beat Mr 60% overall and through the years in spite of his
shortcomings, but wow...

Reminiscent of Boris Becker, who had most of his success at an early
age, but then his personal life went to hell and he could never really
return to top form.