Ullrich and U.S Postal

"Andre" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Has anyone touched on the idea that Ullrich may have ridden into Paris in Yellow had he been on
U.S Postal and Lance on Bianchi? Just a thought.

Andre

No. This group does not concern itself with stupid-ass ideas like that. We focus on more important
issues such as "How fat one must be in order to qualify as a Fat Master", or "How to prove someone
is doping if there is no proof" (Please read the FAQ for answers to those questions)

-T

Ullrich would have done a face plant over Beloki's fallen carcass and Lance would have won the tour
by a handfull of seconds over Vino.

Bob C. "Andre" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Has anyone touched on the idea that Ullrich may have ridden into Paris in Yellow had he been on
U.S Postal and Lance on Bianchi? Just a thought.

Andre

"Andre" <[email hidden]> wrote.com...

Quoted message said:

Has anyone touched on the idea that Ullrich may have ridden into Paris in Yellow had he been on
U.S Postal and Lance on Bianchi? Just a thought.

No, as there are nearly an infinite set of What If's you can play with the Tour outcome, as you
could with any sport.

-Ken

"Andre" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Has anyone touched on the idea that Ullrich may have ridden into Paris in Yellow had he been on
U.S Postal and Lance on Bianchi? Just a thought.

Andre

I need more explanation to understand your fantasy.

Andre said:

Has anyone touched on the idea that Ullrich may have ridden into Paris in Yellow had he been on
U.S Postal and Lance on Bianchi? Just a thought.

Has anyone touched on the idea that Der Jan may have ridden into

leaving him with a team that was scraped up off of the burnt remnants of a financial disaster?

Tough [censored] for Jan but if the other guy has an advantage because you screw up and he doesn't then
that advantage is fairly won.

Bob Schwartz [email hidden]

In article said:

Andre said:

Has anyone touched on the idea that Ullrich may have ridden into Paris in Yellow had he been on
U.S Postal and Lance on Bianchi? Just a thought.

Has anyone touched on the idea that Der Jan may have ridden into

Quoted message said:

leaving him with a team that was scraped up off of the burnt remnants of a financial disaster?

Tough [censored] for Jan but if the other guy has an advantage because you screw up and he doesn't then
that advantage is fairly won.

It's all about good planning and making good choices and some of that happens far away from the bike
you ride in the race.

Heard this quote again today...

"In October everybody wants to be the Saturday afternoon hero in the football game but most aren't
willing to do the work in June that can get you there."

During my (verrry slow) rest intervals between sprints today I was getting passed by anybody who
could ride 10 mph on the bike trail and some of them would look at me in my team jersey and
decent bike and probably wonder about me. In fact, some fat guy on a recumbent asked me if I was
okay when I stopped to let him go by at the top of the hill I was doing my sprints on. I'm
thinking, so where were you people when I was out here in December doing 3-hour rides in the
cold, damp fog in the dark?

-WG

Quoted message said:

Has anyone touched on the idea that Ullrich may have ridden into Paris in Yellow had he been on U.S
Postal and Lance on Bianchi? Just a thought.

Ridiculous venom spewed at the poster of this Q. What is wrong with you people? All except the
always classy Mike of Chain Reaction.

It's a fair Q, just as discussion of potential teams next year, old teams of the past, etc.

Clearly the strength of Postal would have helped Jan. In the TTT alone, assuming Jan and Lance are
equal TT'ers, Jan would have gained :43 times 2. That would have put him over. Of course tactics
could have changed, Lance could have attacked more potentially, etc.

But Lance is always vehement about pointing out his team as the reason he wins. Time and again
great champions try to remind people how team oriented the grand tours are. A strong team is more
than critical.

Doug

"Bob Schwartz" <[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Andre said:

Has anyone touched on the idea that Ullrich may have ridden into Paris in Yellow had he been on
U.S Postal and Lance on Bianchi? Just a thought.

Has anyone touched on the idea that Der Jan may have ridden into

Quoted message said:

leaving him with a team that was scraped up off of the burnt remnants of a financial disaster?

Tough [censored] for Jan but if the other guy has an advantage because you screw up and he doesn't then
that advantage is fairly won.

Bob Schwartz [email hidden]

If he didn't have such a hard on for his personal manager, Ullrich probably would have been riding
with Riis and the CSC squad. But instead he screwed up once again, just this time it wasn't in a
race. Of course he is making more money than he would have for CSC, but they would have given him a
much better chance to win.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Has anyone touched on the idea that Ullrich may have ridden into Paris in Yellow had he been on
U.S Postal and Lance on Bianchi? Just a thought.

No. This group does not concern itself with stupid-ass ideas like that. We focus on more important
issues such as "How fat one must be in order to qualify as a Fat Master", or "How to prove someone
is doping if there is no proof" (Please read the FAQ for answers to those questions)

Your posts are almost always good Tom, but this one... What's the harm in discussing possible teams
in the last tour or any other tour? What is the talk now about the potential teams next year with
the demise of both iBanesto and ONCE but more of what the guy asked here? It's fair game.

Doug

"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Has anyone touched on the idea that Ullrich may have ridden into Paris in Yellow had he been on
U.S Postal and Lance on Bianchi? Just a thought.

No. This group does not concern itself with stupid-ass ideas like that.

We

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

focus on more important issues such as "How fat one must be in order to qualify as a Fat Master",
or "How to prove someone is doping if there is

no

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

proof" (Please read the FAQ for answers to those questions)

Your posts are almost always good Tom, but this one... What's the harm in discussing possible
teams in the last tour or any other tour? What is the talk now about the potential teams next year
with the demise of both iBanesto and ONCE but more of what the guy asked here? It's fair game.

Doug

I believe there is a difference in discussing what "might happen", instead of talking about what
"could have happened." The number of "Virtual" tour winners will soon exceed the number of real
tour winners. We might as well discuss the fact that if Jan had ridden faster than Lance he
would have won.

-T

"Doug" [email hidden] wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Has anyone touched on the idea that Ullrich may have ridden into Paris in Yellow had he been on
U.S Postal and Lance on Bianchi? Just a thought.

Ridiculous venom spewed at the poster of this Q. What is wrong with you people? All except the
always classy Mike of Chain Reaction.

It's a fair Q, just as discussion of potential teams next year, old teams of the past, etc.

Another dorky comment from "Dougie No Last Name" who posts phone junk to an RBR newsgroup.

Quoted message said:

Clearly the strength of Postal would have helped Jan. In the TTT alone, assuming Jan and Lance are
equal TT'ers, Jan would have gained :43 times 2. That would have put him over. Of course tactics
could have changed, Lance could have attacked more potentially, etc.

But Lance is always vehement about pointing out his team as the reason he wins. Time and again
great champions try to remind people how team oriented the grand tours are. A strong team is more
than critical.

Doug

DOUG!!! Oh Doug!

Quoted message said:

... I prefer the n105's flip, the P280's GPRS, the n105's monthly PIM

view, and the P280's standard 2.5mm jack. But RF and outgoing sound trump all.

Doug a Nerd??

Quoted message said:

Advice and suggestions please. Thanks, Doug

nice post.

Jiyang

"Mike Jacoubowsky" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Has anyone touched on the idea that Ullrich may have ridden into Paris in Yellow had he been on
U.S Postal and Lance on Bianchi? Just a thought.

In all seriousness, I don't think so. Lance simply doesn't know what it

is

Quoted message said:

to lose. He'll tell people, in all seriousness, that he's paid to do just one thing... win the
Tour de France. Not ride fast, not ride better than anyone else, not win stages. Just win the Tour
de France. And the way he rides is evidence of a degree of confidence found nowhere else. In his
cyclo-cross outing, he wasn't thinking about getting back onto the road... rather, he was thinking
hey, I'm moving forward, things have changed,

let's

Quoted message said:

make the best of it. Would Ullrich have thought that way? Maybe, but I doubt it.

People made a big deal out of Ullrich not being told about his three team mates who ate it in the
same corner on the wet time trial, as if knowing what had happened might have kept him from
crashing. But nobody brings up the possibility that maybe they didn't want Ullrich to know because
he was (admittedly) already quite nervous about things, and they thought that

might

Quoted message said:

have totally rattled him in a way that would have impacted (poor pun) his performance.

Up to now, there's no question that Lance has been *the* man. He's built his life around winning
the Tour de France, and things have generally gone his way. He's even continued to work on his
French and in general done a lot to endear himself to the French (I'd even suggest he's
considerably

more

Quoted message said:

deferential to the French than he is to people here in the US!).

BUT... this was a tough victory, and it was clear that things aren't as

they

Quoted message said:

used to be. There are [censored] in the armor, and an awful lot of people

have

Quoted message said:

suddenly shown a willingness to find those weaknesses and exploit them. A

dd

Quoted message said:

to that the fact that there are a number of up-and-coming competitors who are gaining the
maturity (not just strength) needed to get a spot on the podium, and 2004 promises to be one heck
of a show.

Can Lance win #6? For him to be in a controlling position again, he'd have to be absolutely
dominant in important races leading up to the TDF, and, so far, that hasn't been in his game plan.
He'll die trying, that's for sure. I'd put the odds at 50/50, which might actually be too
optimistic.

Getting back to the original question though, it ignores the fact that it simply couldn't happen,
because Lance wouldn't put himself in a position where he didn't feel he had the tools needed to
get the job done. Lance understands the value of a team, probably more than anyone else out there.
And his is hand-picked to get the job done.

--Mike-- Chain Reaction Bicycles chainreactionbicycles.comchainreactionbicycles.comOpen ↗

CSC couldn't afford Jan.

"Corey Green" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"Bob Schwartz" <[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Andre said:

Has anyone touched on the idea that Ullrich may have ridden into Paris in Yellow had he been
on U.S Postal and Lance on Bianchi? Just a thought.

Has anyone touched on the idea that Der Jan may have ridden into

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

leaving him with a team that was scraped up off of the burnt remnants of a financial disaster?

Tough [censored] for Jan but if the other guy has an advantage because you screw up and he doesn't
then that advantage is fairly won.

Bob Schwartz [email hidden]

If he didn't have such a hard on for his personal manager, Ullrich

probably

Quoted message said:

would have been riding with Riis and the CSC squad. But instead he screwed up once again, just
this time it wasn't in a race. Of course he is making more money than he would have for CSC, but
they would have given him a

much

Quoted message said:

better chance to win.

Why can't you post a serious response without the sarcasm? Messages like yours are the spam that you
hate so much.

Jiyang

"Ken Papai" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:oN9Ya.54040$cF.18959@rwcrnsc53...

Quoted message said:

"Doug" [email hidden] wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Has anyone touched on the idea that Ullrich may have ridden into Paris in Yellow had he been on
U.S Postal and Lance on Bianchi? Just a thought.

Ridiculous venom spewed at the poster of this Q. What is wrong with you people? All except the
always classy Mike of Chain Reaction.

It's a fair Q, just as discussion of potential teams next year, old teams of the past, etc.

Another dorky comment from "Dougie No Last Name" who posts phone junk to an RBR newsgroup.

Quoted message said:

Clearly the strength of Postal would have helped Jan. In the TTT alone, assuming Jan and Lance
are equal TT'ers, Jan would have gained :43 times 2. That would have put him over. Of course
tactics could have changed, Lance could have attacked more potentially, etc.

But Lance is always vehement about pointing out his team as the reason he wins. Time and again
great champions try to remind people how team oriented the grand tours are. A strong team is
more than critical.

Doug

DOUG!!! Oh Doug!

Quoted message said:

... I prefer the n105's flip, the P280's GPRS, the n105's monthly PIM

view, and the P280's standard 2.5mm jack. But RF and outgoing sound trump all.

Doug a Nerd??

Quoted message said:

Advice and suggestions please. Thanks, Doug

"Jiyang Chen" <[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Why can't you post a serious response without the sarcasm? Messages like yours are the spam that
you hate so much.

Jiyang

QUIT Top Posting Newbie!!

Quoted message said:

"Ken Papai" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:oN9Ya.54040$cF.18959@rwcrnsc53...

Quoted message said:

"Doug" [email hidden] wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

>Has anyone touched on the idea that Ullrich may have ridden into

Paris

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

>in Yellow had he been on U.S Postal and Lance on Bianchi? Just a thought.

Ridiculous venom spewed at the poster of this Q. What is wrong with you people? All except the
always classy Mike of Chain Reaction.

It's a fair Q, just as discussion of potential teams next year, old teams of the past, etc.

Another dorky

Just read the goddamn post before the one you're reading. Also scrolling down to type below the
message wastes my time, and also your time.

"Ken Papai" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:UpfYa.55373$cF.19571@rwcrnsc53...

Quoted message said:

"Jiyang Chen" <[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Why can't you post a serious response without the sarcasm? Messages

like

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

yours are the spam that you hate so much.

Jiyang

QUIT Top Posting Newbie!!

Quoted message said:

"Ken Papai" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:oN9Ya.54040$cF.18959@rwcrnsc53...

Quoted message said:

"Doug" [email hidden] wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...
> >Has anyone touched on the idea that Ullrich may have ridden into

Paris

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> >in Yellow had he been on U.S Postal and Lance on Bianchi? Just a thought.
>
> Ridiculous venom spewed at the poster of this Q. What is wrong with you people? All except
> the always classy Mike of Chain Reaction.
>
> It's a fair Q, just as discussion of potential teams next year, old teams of the past, etc.

Another dorky

In article UpfYa.55373$cF.19571@rwcrnsc53 said:

"Jiyang Chen" <[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Why can't you post a serious response without the sarcasm? Messages like yours are the spam that
you hate so much.

Jiyang

QUIT Top Posting Newbie!!

I think sometimes top posting can serve a purpose, especially when the reply is a general comment
about the entire previous post. For people who are reading many consecutive messages in a thread
they can just read the new message at the top, but for those who have lost track of the continuity
they can refer to the bottom section for a refresher.

-WG

This was an interesting post.

<snip>

Quoted message said:

Can Lance win #6? For him to be in a controlling position again, he'd have to be absolutely
dominant in important races leading up to the TDF, and, so far, that hasn't been in his game plan.
He'll die trying, that's for sure. I'd put the odds at 50/50, which might actually be too
optimistic.

I don't understand the first part. What does "be in a controlling position again" mean? Controlling
what? I don't see what difference it makes at all if he wins any important races before the tdf, let
alone being dominant.

On the second part I think 50/50 seems about right. On the plus side for Lance is that I think this
was definately an off-year. The fact that he could win when not at his best makes it more likely
that he can win next year, assuming he is in better form.

On the minus side, he will be a year older. Also Ullrich may be stronger. So even if Lance improves
next year, Ullrich may also. Plus Ullrich's team may be stronger, but it's doubtful that U.S. Postal
will improve (since it's already strong).

"Tom Ewall" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

This was an interesting post.

<snip>

Quoted message said:

Can Lance win #6? For him to be in a controlling position again, he'd have to be absolutely
dominant in important races leading up to the TDF, and, so far, that hasn't been in his game
plan. He'll die trying,

that's

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

for sure. I'd put the odds at 50/50, which might actually be too optimistic.

I don't understand the first part. What does "be in a controlling position again" mean?
Controlling what? I don't see what difference it makes at all if he wins any important races
before the tdf, let alone being dominant.

It relates to his perceived fitness. GC contenders are less likely to attack him if they don't think
they have a chance of making it stick (a misscalculation that Jan made in the Pyranees.) This makes
it easier on the Postal team to control the race - everyone else will be racing for second place.

Quoted message said:

On the second part I think 50/50 seems about right. On the plus side for Lance is that I think
this was definately an off-year. The fact that he could win when not at his best makes it more
likely that he can win next year, assuming he is in better form.

On the minus side, he will be a year older. Also Ullrich may be stronger. So even if Lance
improves next year, Ullrich may also. Plus Ullrich's team may be stronger, but it's doubtful that
U.S. Postal will improve (since it's already strong).

Postal will be better next year if Heras is healthier. Having Beltran on the team for a full year
will also help - knowing the team tactics and being able to "read" the other riders on the team will
keep him from going "nuclear" at the wrong time. On the minus side, Ekimov is really getting up
there in age and it makes you wonder how many stages he has left in his legs.

I think the gap between Ullrich and Armstrong will be the closest it's been in the last five years.
The possibility of another strong rider emerging makes the expectations for next year seem even more
exciting. Only 11 months to go.

-T