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Tyre pressures

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Australia and New Zealand
Published
1 April 2008
Last activity
1 April 2008
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Steve Ball
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  1. I got a 'snakebite' flat in the front tyre after hitting a bit of roadwork
    this morning. The tyre had at least 105psi in it. The tyre's a Continental
    GP Attack and I notice its labelled "700x22C". All my tubes say "700x23C". I
    assume the millimetre difference is ignorable and nothing to do with my bad
    luck this morning. Or not?

    This got me poking around Sheldon Brown's website, where I read that many
    experienced cyclists run different pressures and even different tyres front
    and rear, with the aim of maximising traction at the front and minimizing
    rolling resistance at the rear. There's a table here:

    http://www.sheldonbrown.com/tires.html#pressure

    but it talks in terms of 'wheel load', without saying roughly what
    proportion of a rider's weight is on the rear wheel (more) versus what's
    taken by the front (less). Anybody have any idea?

    But, given that the rear takes more weight, the front less, it's suggested
    you inflate the rear harder, the front softer, which works in nicely with
    less rolling resistance (due to less deformation) at the rear, more traction
    (dues to greater contact area) at the front.

    I've always read my tyre walls (well, _sometimes_ always read them) and put
    100 psi in both but, given that I only weight 65Kg, they may well be
    over-inflated, especially the front. All of which makes this morning's flat
    more puzzling...

    Comments from the gallery?
    --
    Steve = : ^ )

  2. Steve Ball said:

    I got a 'snakebite' flat in the front tyre after hitting a bit of roadwork
    this morning. The tyre had at least 105psi in it. The tyre's a Continental
    GP Attack and I notice its labelled "700x22C". All my tubes say "700x23C". I
    assume the millimetre difference is ignorable and nothing to do with my bad
    luck this morning. Or not?

    This got me poking around Sheldon Brown's website, where I read that many
    experienced cyclists run different pressures and even different tyres front
    and rear, with the aim of maximising traction at the front and minimizing
    rolling resistance at the rear. There's a table here:

    http://www.sheldonbrown.com/tires.html#pressure

    but it talks in terms of 'wheel load', without saying roughly what
    proportion of a rider's weight is on the rear wheel (more) versus what's
    taken by the front (less). Anybody have any idea?

    But, given that the rear takes more weight, the front less, it's suggested
    you inflate the rear harder, the front softer, which works in nicely with
    less rolling resistance (due to less deformation) at the rear, more traction
    (dues to greater contact area) at the front.

    I've always read my tyre walls (well, _sometimes_ always read them) and put
    100 psi in both but, given that I only weight 65Kg, they may well be
    over-inflated, especially the front. All of which makes this morning's flat
    more puzzling...

    Comments from the gallery?


    "hitting a bot of roadwork" can easily produce deformation forces large
    enough to pinch a tube no matter what tyre pressure you use. Certainly a
    700x22C or 23C is small enough that even a large rock could do the
    job. Especially damaging are thing your run into rather than over. There
    is a small road bridge on Wattle Street (Canberra) where the roadway
    had subsided about 4cm exposing a right angle steel edge. I always bunny
    hopped over it because that kind of front-on contact is really punishing
    on road bikes (less on MTBs because the suspension absorbs a fair amount
    of the impact).

    If you want the last word on rolling resistance, talk to the MTB cross
    country riders who have been tinkering with tyre pressure and profile to
    a far greater extent than the blacktop folks, and yes, they do run lower
    pressure on the front under many circumstances.

    The most extreme version of 'wheel load' imbalance is loaded cycle
    touring, where rear panniers and racktop luggage make up a lot of the
    weight. On my touring bike I have always run a wider tyre on the back
    than on the front (eg 32mm on front and 37mm on back for light touring,
    or 42/47 for heavier loads). The point is that a narrow tyre will
    require greater pressure as the load increases, and it is time to stop
    when you get to the pressure on the placard or thereabouts. An easy way
    to think about this is that the at-rest surface area in contact with the
    road is equal to the load on the wheel divided by the tyre pressure. As
    you add load you have to increase pressure, but if a tyre was 25% wider
    then it could handle 25% more load at the same pressure. (This
    simplistic arithmetic leaves out several factors but is good enough for
    this kind of calculation).

    I'm not sure I believe the viewpoint that reducing pressure results in
    better traction for road tyres. Each tyre is designed with an optimum
    profile. Tyres that corner well present a good profile to the road under
    sideways stresses. This profile will be negatively impacted by over or
    under inflation. We can all detect this in the extreme case (like when a
    front tyre has a slow leak) as the underinflated tyre does not handle
    predicatably.

    So my opinion (and I'm sure there will be others) is to run tyres at the
    optimum pressure. Maybe run a wider tyre at the back. In fact you'll
    discover that if you do that you may even run it at a lower pressure
    than the front one, certainly not a higher pressure. Have a look at the
    Continental Attack/Force combination as an example of this kind of thinking.

  3. Thanks for the thorough reply. Some comments below.

    Patrick Keogh:

    Quoted message said:
    Steve Ball said:

    I got a 'snakebite' flat in the front tyre after hitting a bit of roadwork
    this morning. The tyre had at least 105psi in it. The tyre's a Continental
    GP Attack and I notice its labelled "700x22C". All my tubes say "700x23C". I
    assume the millimetre difference is ignorable and nothing to do with my bad
    luck this morning. Or not?

    This got me poking around Sheldon Brown's website, where I read that many
    experienced cyclists run different pressures and even different tyres front
    and rear, with the aim of maximising traction at the front and minimizing
    rolling resistance at the rear. There's a table here:

    http://www.sheldonbrown.com/tires.html#pressure

    but it talks in terms of 'wheel load', without saying roughly what
    proportion of a rider's weight is on the rear wheel (more) versus what's
    taken by the front (less). Anybody have any idea?

    But, given that the rear takes more weight, the front less, it's suggested
    you inflate the rear harder, the front softer, which works in nicely with
    less rolling resistance (due to less deformation) at the rear, more traction
    (dues to greater contact area) at the front.

    I've always read my tyre walls (well, _sometimes_ always read them) and put
    100 psi in both but, given that I only weight 65Kg, they may well be
    over-inflated, especially the front. All of which makes this morning's flat
    more puzzling...

    Comments from the gallery?

    (snip lots of useful info)

    Quoted message said:

    I'm not sure I believe the viewpoint that reducing pressure results in
    better traction for road tyres. Each tyre is designed with an optimum
    profile. Tyres that corner well present a good profile to the road under
    sideways stresses.

    Surely the profile the tyre presents to the road is going to be impacted by
    the load on the wheel. To have the same tyre profiles, a heavier rider will
    need greater inflation pressure than a lighter rider, and a rear tyre will
    need greater inflation pressure than front tyre on the same bike. Or am I
    crazy?

    Quoted message said:

    This profile will be negatively impacted by over or
    under inflation. We can all detect this in the extreme case (like when a
    front tyre has a slow leak) as the underinflated tyre does not handle
    predicatably.

    No problem there.

    Quoted message said:

    So my opinion (and I'm sure there will be others) is to run tyres at the
    optimum pressure.

    Agreed. I'm just not sure how we arrive at that. In my limited experience,
    tyres are usually marked with a maximum pressure, and I don't know if the
    author was being cynical, but the article I referred to makes the point that
    this number is arrived at by a discussion between the manufacturer's
    marketing and legal departments.

    I no longer see the number on the sidewall as necessarily the best pressure
    for both (or either) of my tyres. Optimum for my 65Kgs is probably somewhere
    lower, but by how much, I'm still guessing.

    Quoted message said:

    Maybe run a wider tyre at the back. In fact you'll
    discover that if you do that you may even run it at a lower pressure
    than the front one, certainly not a higher pressure. Have a look at the
    Continental Attack/Force combination as an example of this kind of thinking.

    I have a Continental Attack on the front and it's labelled 700x22 and
    'Maximum inflation 120 psi". Are you saying the matching Force is a bigger
    tyre with a lower inflation pressure?
    --
    Thanks again,
    Steve = : ^ )

  4. Steve Ball wrote:
    <lots snipped>

    Quoted message said:


    Surely the profile the tyre presents to the road is going to be impacted by
    the load on the wheel. To have the same tyre profiles, a heavier rider will
    need greater inflation pressure than a lighter rider, and a rear tyre will
    need greater inflation pressure than front tyre on the same bike. Or am I
    crazy?

    No that's right, the change in optimum pressure will vary according to
    the mass of a rider+bicycle. So unless we do a lot of scientific testing
    it would be reasonable to conclude that a light rider will get best
    results from a lower tyre pressure compared to a heavier rider. Almost
    all the forces, both static and dynamic will be directly proportional to
    the weight of bike+rider.

    Quoted message said:


    Agreed. I'm just not sure how we arrive at that. In my limited experience,
    tyres are usually marked with a maximum pressure, and I don't know if the
    author was being cynical, but the article I referred to makes the point that
    this number is arrived at by a discussion between the manufacturer's
    marketing and legal departments.

    I have a Continental Attack on the front and it's labelled 700x22 and
    'Maximum inflation 120 psi". Are you saying the matching Force is a bigger
    tyre with a lower inflation pressure?

    Bigger tyre, same inflation pressure (to cover weight distribution).
    You'll note from the Continental web site at
    http://www.conti-tyres.co.uk/conticycle/default.html if you go there
    that they specify "recommended" as well as "maximum" pressures. The
    recommended pressure will be based on some (notional average?) weight rider.

    For example from the site:

    Tyre Width Recommended Maximum
    Attack 22 110 120
    Force 24 110 120
    Top Contact 32 70 85
    Top Contact 47 45 85

    As you can see the matching Force is a wider tyre (10%) than the Attack
    with the recommended pressure being the same. On the other hand if you
    ran the ridiculous combination of Top Contact 32/47 the rear is 50%
    wider and the recommended pressure difference is about the same. For use
    as a loaded touring rear tyre I'd be increasing the pressure in the 47
    from 45psi to much closer to the maximum, probably around 70.

    This is shown somewhat simplistically at
    http://two-wheels.michelin.com/2w/front/affich.jsp?codeRubrique=8092004154733&lang=EN
    but you get the general idea.

  5. Patrick Keogh:

    Quoted message said:

    Steve Ball wrote:
    <lots snipped>

    Quoted message said:


    Surely the profile the tyre presents to the road is going to be impacted by
    the load on the wheel. To have the same tyre profiles, a heavier rider will
    need greater inflation pressure than a lighter rider, and a rear tyre will
    need greater inflation pressure than front tyre on the same bike. Or am I
    crazy?

    No that's right, the change in optimum pressure will vary according to
    the mass of a rider+bicycle. So unless we do a lot of scientific testing
    it would be reasonable to conclude that a light rider will get best
    results from a lower tyre pressure compared to a heavier rider. Almost
    all the forces, both static and dynamic will be directly proportional to
    the weight of bike+rider.

    Quoted message said:


    Agreed. I'm just not sure how we arrive at that. In my limited experience,
    tyres are usually marked with a maximum pressure, and I don't know if the
    author was being cynical, but the article I referred to makes the point that
    this number is arrived at by a discussion between the manufacturer's
    marketing and legal departments.

    I have a Continental Attack on the front and it's labelled 700x22 and
    'Maximum inflation 120 psi". Are you saying the matching Force is a bigger
    tyre with a lower inflation pressure?

    Bigger tyre, same inflation pressure (to cover weight distribution).
    You'll note from the Continental web site at
    http://www.conti-tyres.co.uk/conticycle/default.html if you go there
    that they specify "recommended" as well as "maximum" pressures. The
    recommended pressure will be based on some (notional average?) weight rider.

    For example from the site:

    Tyre Width Recommended Maximum
    Attack 22 110 120
    Force 24 110 120
    Top Contact 32 70 85
    Top Contact 47 45 85

    As you can see the matching Force is a wider tyre (10%) than the Attack
    with the recommended pressure being the same. On the other hand if you
    ran the ridiculous combination of Top Contact 32/47 the rear is 50%
    wider and the recommended pressure difference is about the same. For use
    as a loaded touring rear tyre I'd be increasing the pressure in the 47
    from 45psi to much closer to the maximum, probably around 70.

    This is shown somewhat simplistically at
    http://two-wheels.michelin.com/2w/front/affich.jsp?codeRubrique=8092004154733&
    lang=EN
    but you get the general idea.

    Thanks again for all the useful info. I'll visit the link in the morning.
    --
    Steve = : ^ )

  6. Steve Ball said:

    ...
    I've always read my tyre walls (well, _sometimes_ always read them) and put
    100 psi in both but, given that I only weight 65Kg, they may well be
    over-inflated, especially the front. All of which makes this morning's flat
    more puzzling...

    Comments from the gallery?

    For pity's sake man, eat something!

    BTH

  7. BT Humble:

    Quoted message said:
    Steve Ball said:

    ...
    I've always read my tyre walls (well, _sometimes_ always read them) and put
    100 psi in both but, given that I only weight 65Kg, they may well be
    over-inflated, especially the front. All of which makes this morning's flat
    more puzzling...

    Comments from the gallery?

    For pity's sake man, eat something!

    LOL. I love my food & drink. That's why I have to exercise so much.
    --
    Steve = : ^ )

  8. Steve Ball said:

    Comments from the gallery?

    Steve,

    I'm just under 60 kg and have used Conti-GP4000's @ ~100 psi for some
    time. For racing I've sometimes upped to 110 or thereabouts. I recently
    changed to Michelin ProRace2's which come with a little guide to match
    rider weight to pressure. At about 65 kg the recommended pressure is
    somewhere around 100 psi. There may be more on the Michelin website. I'd
    say your pressures are OK.

    With tube size my guess is there shouldn't be a problem putting 700 x
    23's in a 700 x 22 tyre. I'd assume that the tube will fit to the tyre
    once under pressure and will deform to fit OK. ProBikeKit often
    advertise their tubes and tyres with a little comment on whether the
    tubes/tyres will fit together or on your rims OK, so maybe check them out.

    As for pinch-cuts, if the pressure point is small enough you'll do
    damage regardless of weight and tyre pressure. I once hit a pot-hole
    with my rear wheel (tyre at ~90 psi I'd guess... I was using latex tubes
    at the time and they lose pressure easily) and ripped a huge hole in my
    tyre, pinch cut the tube and damaged the rim.

    Cheers,

    Bean

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