Type 2 - out of control

"Johan van Zyl - JVZ Systems CC" <[email hidden]>
wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Hi I am T2 diagnosed 2 years ago.

I now wake up with BG = 13 and one hour after lunch =

16. Was 20 once

Quoted message said:

two weeks ago.

I take metformin 850mg One three times a day and

Diamacron MR 30 in

Quoted message said:

the morning and I do no exercising.

If I leave my medication as it is - how much of a

difference will

Quoted message said:

exercise make - will that alone get me down to under

7?

Quoted message said:

I am 194cm and 110kg.

It is possible but what about diet? What life changes have you made regarding the number of carbs
you eat? There is no one magic formula, diabetic management involves diet, exercise and usually meds
of some kind.

Johan van Zyl - JVZ Systems CC said:

Hi I am T2 diagnosed 2 years ago.

I now wake up with BG = 13 and one hour after lunch = 16. Was 20 once two weeks ago.

I take metformin 850mg One three times a day and Diamacron MR 30 in the morning and I do no
exercising.

Why don't you exercise? Is there a medical problem you did not mention?

Quoted message said:

If I leave my medication as it is - how much of a difference will exercise make - will that alone
get me down to under 7?

Controlling diabetes MUST include diet and exercise, sometimes medication. Even if on medication,
you can NOT give up the diet and exercise and remain in good control.

Quoted message said:

I am 194cm and 110kg.

You are overweight, not quite obese, (medical definition, not insult). Unfortunately, overweight,
lack of exercise, and DM each increases the risk of heart disease, stroke, and thrombosis. If you
get your weight down by exercising those risks recede quite a long way.

Al.

Johan van Zyl - JVZ Systems CC said:

Hi I am T2 diagnosed 2 years ago.

I now wake up with BG = 13 and one hour after lunch = 16. Was 20 once two weeks ago.

I take metformin 850mg One three times a day and Diamacron MR 30 in the morning and I do no
exercising.

If I leave my medication as it is - how much of a difference will exercise make - will that alone
get me down to under 7? I am 194cm and 110kg.

Thx

You appear to understand that exercise is necessary, so I have to ask, why not do it? Is there some
physical or medical reason for not exercising?

As the others have indicated, correct diet is even more important than exercise, although both are
necessary. You tested one hour after lunch; good. But what did you eat? Review that lunch and eat it
again tomorrow, but remove any starches such as corn, bread, potatoes or rice from the menu. Then
test at one hour and see if the result is different. I would be very surprised if it isn't.

That is only an example. You will need to do more than just remove excessive starch/carbohydrate
intake. Go to the alt.support.diabetes web-site at alt-support-diabetes.orgalt-support-diabetes.orgOpen ↗ and read
further while you wait for the world to turn and the transAtlanticans to wake. Then come back and
ask lots of questions.

Oh, and welcome to the group :-)

Cheers Alan, T2, Oz dx May 2002 , A1C 5.8, no meds, diet and not enough exercise.

--
Everything in Moderation - Except Laughter.

Johan van Zyl - JVZ Systems CC said:

Hi I am T2 diagnosed 2 years ago.

I now wake up with BG = 13 and one hour after lunch = 16. Was 20 once two weeks ago.

I take metformin 850mg One three times a day and Diamacron MR 30 in the morning and I do no
exercising.

If I leave my medication as it is - how much of a difference will exercise make - will that alone
get me down to under 7? I am 194cm and 110kg.

Exercise should be in EVERYONE's daily routine !!

Johan van Zyl - JVZ Systems CC wrote in message <[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

Hi I am T2 diagnosed 2 years ago.

I now wake up with BG = 13 and one hour after lunch = 16. Was 20 once two weeks ago.

I take metformin 850mg One three times a day and Diamacron MR 30 in the morning and I do no
exercising.

If I leave my medication as it is - how much of a difference will exercise make - will that alone
get me down to under 7? I am 194cm and 110kg.

Thx

There is no easy answer to your "exercise vs bG" question. A T2 balances his exercise, his med
level, and his carb intake. You are taking powerful meds but any diabetic can overwhelm his meds by
eating too much carb.

Also, it is likely that you have slid into a condition called Glucose Toxicity because of sustained
exposure to high bG..

Glucose Toxicity will cause a temporary increase in Insulin Resistance and a temporary suppression
of insulin production. If you are in Glucose Toxicity, bG control is very difficult, much more so
than your/our "normal diabetic difficulty".

The "cure" for Glucose Toxicity is to somehow force your bG into normal ranges (mostly below 7.8)
for a while via some sort of extraordinary effort. In your case, virtually eliminating carbohydrate
from your diet or asking your doc for insulin therapy represent two quick ways to try to do this.

After you knock out your Glucose Toxicity, you must re-figure your balance between carb, meds and
exercise. It's your choice. If you want to eat any substantial level of carb you must balance with
extra exercise and/or extra meds.

Type 2 diabetes is a progressive disease. Many if not most if not all T2 exhibit continuous death of
the beta cells which produce insulin, and tend to end up in your current situation. Low-carb diets,
vigorous exericise programs and probably insulin injections delay that progression.

You're a candidate for insulin injections right now if you can't find a way to reduce your carb
and/or increase your exercise.

Regards
Old Al

On 26 Jan 2004 12:46:04 GMT, [email hidden] (gman99)

Quoted message said:

Johan van Zyl - JVZ Systems CC said:

Hi I am T2 diagnosed 2 years ago.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I now wake up with BG = 13 and one hour after lunch = 16. Was 20 once two weeks ago. I take
metformin 850mg One three times a day and Diamacron MR 30 in the morning and I do no exercising.
If I leave my medication as it is - how much of a difference will exercise make - will that alone
get me down to under 7? I am 194cm and 110kg.

Quoted message said:

Exercise should be in EVERYONE's daily routine !!

Your height 194cm = 76" [x 0.3937] Your weight 110kg = 242.506lbs [x 2.2046] Your Current BMI [Body
Mass Index] is 30 You are defined as clinically obese.

A BMI of 18.5 - 25 is considered 'normal' therefore at your height your weight should be between 152
- 205 lbs. [68.9kg
- 93kg]

To sustain that weight you must be taking in more calories than you need. What foods do you eat and
what volume are your meals? Judging by the BG reading you quote your choice of food is suspect and
also the volume.

I lost weight even though before diagnosis I was not considered fat nevertheless, after having lost
the weight, my BG's 'stabalised' and there was a reduction in BG level but that was due to a
reduction in carb intake and a lesser volume of food per meal.

With the loss in weight, I discovered that I moved a lot faster and had more energy. So exercise
although a pain sometimes, became considerably easier.

The dose of Metformin is fairly high. Do you know how it works? Go here to read if you are not sure.

diabetesmonitor.commetf qa.htmOpen ↗

Metformin acts by increasing the sensitivity of liver, muscle, fat, and other tissues to the uptake
and effects of insulin. These actions lower the level of sugar in the blood.

medicinenet.comarticle.htmOpen ↗

So to answer your question directly, carrying out exercise will help the efficiency of the
medication you are using. doing no exercise at all well that is plain daft unless you are physically
unable to do exercise that is. You might try a regular daily routine of 30 minutes continuous
activity wihout stopping and monitor your BG. After a week and if you see an improvement that is
consistent, then you might also consider modifying your diet not only to loose some of that excess
weight but to further improve BG levels.

If after modifying diet, exercise and loosing weight you still cannot reduce your BG level, then see
your med team.

Were I in your shoes, your height/weight/BG level and amount of Medication my doc would tell me to
loose the weight, get some exercise and get the diet sorted out.

It has been known for people to be able to reduce medication as a result of adjusting their
lifestyle.

But, it is likely that any changes for the better that you make will not show a marked improvement
untill your body gets used to the new regime. So you need to be patient and not expect a quick
result. You might detect a beneficial trend towards better control in a few weeks.

Caution though - as another poster has already said, you are used to high BG levels and it can take
up to three weeks or more, for your body to get used to lower levels. Whilst this is happening you
may experience hypo like symptoms so be sure to check your BG if you feel odd.

If you intend to make changes then consult your doc first.

JMO YMMV

HTH

Pete

Diagnosed 20/03/03 Type II D&E + Metformin + Gliclazide
+ Asprin 210lbs at Dx to BMI 166lbs achieved. To mail: aspen at freeuk.com

Johan...

Meds and Exercise are two sides to your diabetic triangle.

You also have to factor in the food you eat.

It sounds like you may be eating a plan that doesn't work for you.

Here's the advice I give all those who want to take control of their diabetes:

There is so much to absorb... you don't have to rush into anything. Begin by using your best weapon
in this war, your meter. You won't keel over today, you have time to experiment, test, learn, test
and figure out just how your body and this disease are getting along. The most important thing you
can do to learn about yourself and diabetes is test test test.

The single biggest question a diabetic has to answer is:

What do I eat?

Unfortunately, the answer is pretty confusing.

What confounds us all is the fact that different diabetics can get great results on wildly different
food plans. Some of us here achieve great blood glucose control eating a high complex carbohydrate
diet. Others find that anything over 75 - 100g of carbs a day is too much. Still others are
somewhere in between.

At the beginning all of us felt frustrated. We wanted to be handed THE way to eat, to ensure our
continued health. But we all learned that there is no one way. Each of us had to find our own path,
using the experience of those that went before, but still having to discover for ourselves how OUR
bodies and this disease were coexisting.

Ask questions, but remember each of us discovered on our own what works best for us. You can use
our experiences as jumping off points, but eventually you'll work up a successful plan that is
yours alone.

What you are looking to discover is how different foods affect you. As I'm sure you've read,
carbohydrates (sugars, wheat, rice... the things our Grandmas called "starches"😉 raise blood sugars
the most rapidly. Protein and fat do raise them, but not as high and much more slowly... so if
you're a T2, generally the insulin your body still makes may take care of the rise.

You might want to try some experiments.

First: Eat whatever you've been currently eating... but write it all down. Test yourself at the
following times:

Upon waking (fasting) 1 hour after each meal 2 hours after each meal At bedtime

That means 8 x each day. What you will discover by this is how long after a meal your highest
reading comes... and how fast you return to "normal". Also, you may see that a meal that included
bread, fruit or other carbs gives you a higher reading.

Then for the next few days, try to curb your carbs. Eliminate breads, cereals, rices, beans, any
wheat products, potato, corn, fruit... get all your carbs from veggies. Test at the same
schedule above.

If you try this for a few days, you may find some pretty damn good readings. It's worth a few days
to discover.

Eventually you can slowly add back carbs until you see them affecting your meter.

The thing about this disease... though we share much in common and we need to follow certain
guidelines... in the end, each of our bodies dictate our treatment and our success.

The closer we get to non-diabetic numbers, the greater chance we have of avoiding horrible
complications. The key here is AIM... I know that everyone is at a different point in their
disease... and it is progressive. But, if we aim for the best numbers and do our best, we give
ourselves the best shot at heath we've got. That's all we can do.

Here's my opinion on what numbers to aim for, they are non-diabetic numbers.

FBG under 110 One hour after meals under 140 Two hours after meals under 120

or for those in the mmol parts of the world:

Fasting Under 6 One hour after meals Under 8 Two hours after meals Under 6.5

Recent studies have indicated that the most important numbers are your "after meal" numbers. They
may be the most indicative of future complications, especially heart problems.

Listen to your doctor, but you are the leader of your diabetic care team. While his /her advice is
learned, it is not absolute. You will end up knowing much more about your body and how it's handling
diabetes than your doctor will. Your meter is your best weapon.

Just remember, we're not in a race or a competition with anyone but ourselves... Play around with
your food plan... TEST TEST TEST. Learn what foods cause spikes, what foods cause cravings... Use
your body as a science experiment.

You'll read about a lot of different ways people use to control their diabetes... Many are
diametrically opposed. After awhile you'll learn that there is no one size fits all around here.
Take some time to experiment and you'll soon discover the plan that works for you.

Best of luck!

Jennifer

Johan van Zyl - JVZ Systems CC said:

Hi I am T2 diagnosed 2 years ago.

I now wake up with BG = 13 and one hour after lunch = 16. Was 20 once two weeks ago.

I take metformin 850mg One three times a day and Diamacron MR 30 in the morning and I do no
exercising.

If I leave my medication as it is - how much of a difference will exercise make - will that alone
get me down to under 7? I am 194cm and 110kg.

Thx

Quoted message said:

Your height 194cm = 76" [x 0.3937] Your weight 110kg = 242.506lbs [x 2.2046] Your Current BMI
[Body Mass Index] is 30 You are defined as clinically obese.

A BMI of 18.5 - 25 is considered 'normal' therefore at your height your weight should be between
152 - 205 lbs. [68.9kg
- 93kg]

So is Arnold Schwartzenegger...BMI is mostly meaningless. Use body fat percentage instead.

BMI may not work for everyone, but it's a pretty good indication for _most_ people -- especially
someone who doesn't even claim to exercise or be "big boned -- that's all it is". bj

"gman99" <[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

A BMI of 18.5 - 25 is considered 'normal' therefore at your height your weight should be between
152 - 205 lbs. [68.9kg
- 93kg]

So is Arnold Schwartzenegger...BMI is mostly meaningless. Use body fat percentage instead.

Do you have a medical reason for not exercising? (If you do, ask your doc to help you find a routine
that would work. A physical therapist might be the appropriate person to talk to but that often
requires a referral from the doc to schedule.) Adding exercise will help but the benefit to your bg
levels may not be immediate and you'll need to experiment some with when you exercise. (check your
urine for ketones first though - see below regarding type 1 vs type 2)

What is your daily carb intake and how is it divided up? Do you eat a lot of higher fiber
carbohydrate choices, already?

One thing to consider is that you may not be type 2 but a type 1 and need to add insulin. Many doc's
use age as a primary criteria for the type 1 versus type 2 diagnosis when there are still a number
of adults who develop type 1.

Cindy Wells

On 26 Jan 2004 15:49:03 GMT, [email hidden] (gman99)

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Your height 194cm = 76" [x 0.3937] Your weight 110kg = 242.506lbs [x 2.2046] Your Current BMI
[Body Mass Index] is 30 You are defined as clinically obese.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

A BMI of 18.5 - 25 is considered 'normal' therefore at your height your weight should be between
152 - 205 lbs. [68.9kg
- 93kg]

Quoted message said:

So is Arnold Schwartzenegger...BMI is mostly meaningless. Use body fat percentage instead.

The poster said he didn't exercise so I assumed he was not the Arnie type :-))

I have very little body fat to measure. Now that I am at BMI

Pete

Diagnosed 20/03/03 Type II D&E + Metformin + Gliclazide
+ Asprin 210lbs at Dx to BMI 166lbs achieved. To mail: aspen at freeuk.com

Thx to everyone who responded. I really appreciate it. Will study all of this. I am a computer
programmer who spends about 18 hours a day in front of my PC - so I just do not seem to get to do
any exercise. But I will have to make a plan!!!! Greetings JVZ

Johan van Zyl - JVZ Systems CC said:

Hi I am T2 diagnosed 2 years ago.

I now wake up with BG = 13 and one hour after lunch = 16. Was 20 once two weeks ago.

I take metformin 850mg One three times a day and Diamacron MR 30 in the morning and I do no
exercising.

If I leave my medication as it is - how much of a difference will exercise make - will that alone
get me down to under 7? I am 194cm and 110kg.

Thx

"Johan van Zyl - JVZ Systems CC" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Hi I am T2 diagnosed 2 years ago.

I now wake up with BG = 13 and one hour after lunch = 16. Was 20 once two weeks ago.

I take metformin 850mg One three times a day and Diamacron MR 30 in the morning and I do no
exercising.

If I leave my medication as it is - how much of a difference will exercise make - will that alone
get me down to under 7? I am 194cm and 110kg.

None of us could answer that question. We're all different and exercise affects us differently. One
thing that is clear is that your present routine is not working! You mention meds, but not food.
What type of diet are you on? All the pills in the world aren't going to help you if you eat more
carbs than your body can handle. How many is too many? Again, that varies from person to person. I
presume since you asked the question about exercise, you have yet to do it? Exercise is also vital.
But with numbers like yours, exercise could be dangerous. You don't want to go into DKA or become
dehydrated. What you must do is call your Dr. ASAP and get to the root of the problem. It's possible
you have some other illness or infection that is undiagnosed. Usually when my BG goes sky high,
there's another problem to blame.

--
Type 2 users.bestweb.net~jboveOpen ↗

"Johan van Zyl - JVZ Systems CC" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Thx to everyone who responded. I really appreciate it. Will study all of this. I am a computer
programmer who spends about 18 hours a day in front of my PC - so I just do not seem to get to do
any exercise. But I will have to make a plan!!!!

I keep my weights right next to my computer. I have both ankle weights and dumbbells. I read a few
posts here, do some reps, read a few more posts. Sometimes I can even read and exercise at the same
time. You can do isometics while reading or doing other work.

--
Type 2 users.bestweb.net~jboveOpen ↗