Road Cycling · Public discussion

Tyler finished: Its about time

Started by JayofMontreal · · Last activity · 39 posts · 1,635 views

Thread navigation

Jump through the discussion

Go to the original post, the replies on this page, or the latest preserved contribution.

Thread details

What we know about this thread

Original section
Road Cycling
Published
1 December 2004
Last activity
8 December 2004
Original author
JayofMontreal
Posts
39
Discussion status
Public discussion
Total views
1,635
Views / 30 days
0

The navigation and discussion metadata provide context. Posts remain in their original chronological order.

Showing posts 1–20 of 39
Posts remain in their original chronological order.

Text size
  1. I'm amazed by his supporters.

    He tested positive in the Olympics, robbing Eckimov of a gold medal that he
    deserves

    and you think he's innocent.

    He tested positive in the Vuelta, and this time there was no lucky break for
    Tyler as they didn't destroy the B sample

    and you think he's innocent

    His team mate tests positive for the exact same test

    and you think he's innocent

    He gets banned by the UCI

    and you think he's innocent

    His team finally figures out his guilt and fires his cheating ass

    and you think he's innocent

    I own a bridge in NYC that I can sell you for a very reasonable price.

  2. "JayofMontreal" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    I'm amazed by his supporters.

    He tested positive in the Olympics, robbing Eckimov of a gold medal that
    he deserves

    and you think he's innocent.

    He tested positive in the Vuelta, and this time there was no lucky break
    for Tyler as they didn't destroy the B sample

    and you think he's innocent

    His team mate tests positive for the exact same test

    and you think he's innocent

    He gets banned by the UCI

    and you think he's innocent

    His team finally figures out his guilt and fires his cheating ass

    and you think he's innocent

    I own a bridge in NYC that I can sell you for a very reasonable price.

    You're not supposed to sell things in this newsgroup. But is that bridge
    titanium or carbon fiber?

    Yes, it appears Tyler should have gone the David Millar route ... fess up,
    take his lumps and get it over with. With any results, Millar will be a
    folk hero when he returns kinda like Virenque. Of course, Tyler would have
    been a bit long in the tooth, but that might have added to his folk hero
    status.

    I'm afraid Tyler is, indeed, finished. Take your seat.

    Bob C.

  3. JayofMontreal said:

    I'm amazed by his supporters.

    He tested positive in the Olympics, robbing Eckimov of a gold medal that he
    deserves

    and you think he's innocent.

    He tested positive in the Vuelta, and this time there was no lucky break for
    Tyler as they didn't destroy the B sample

    and you think he's innocent

    His team mate tests positive for the exact same test

    and you think he's innocent

    He gets banned by the UCI

    and you think he's innocent

    His team finally figures out his guilt and fires his cheating ass

    and you think he's innocent

    I own a bridge in NYC that I can sell you for a very reasonable price.

    Uh huh. Half your post isn't truths, it's consequences. The key point
    is 'banned by the UCI', not that an open process has proven or
    disproven guilt. Your belief in the closed processes of the UCI are as
    charming as others' beliefs in Tyler. If I had to choose - and I don't
    - I'd take a flyer on Tyler over the UCI.

    BTW, what's with all the spaces? This supposed to be a responsive
    reading or something?

    Curtis L. Russell
    Odenton, MD (USA)
    Just someone on two wheels...

  4. "psycholist" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    Yes, it appears Tyler should have gone the David Millar route ... fess up,
    take his lumps and get it over with.

    Ah, but it was easy for Millar. He never had to face Haven.

  5. TM said:

    "psycholist" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    Yes, it appears Tyler should have gone the David Millar route ... fess up,
    take his lumps and get it over with.

    Ah, but it was easy for Millar. He never had to face Haven.

    Tyler also has more of a "fighting chance". Millar was caught so red-handed that it was to implausible to deny. Tyler on the other hand is fighting a new procedure and thinks he can overthrow the outcome.

    I am of the opinion that IF Tyler uses doping Haven will know. If I follow all the confessions it seems taking doping is a lot more involved as just popping a pill. I doubt you can keep your spouse in the dark about it.

    On a somewhat related note: I saw an interview/TV special with Musseeuw and his wife. She said that she was tired of giving in so much to her husbands cycling and glad it was over. I thought she looked quite sad and worried when that subject was on the table. I couldn't help but think about doping.

  6. "TM" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:


    "psycholist" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    Yes, it appears Tyler should have gone the David Millar route ... fess
    up, take his lumps and get it over with.

    Ah, but it was easy for Millar. He never had to face Haven.

    I'm sure Sheryl has a friend and Lance did tell Tyler to call him if he ever
    needed anything.

  7. "Tuschinski" <[email hidden]> wrote in
    message news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:


    TM said:

    "psycholist" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    Yes, it appears Tyler should have gone the David Millar route ...


    fess up,

    Quoted message said:

    take his lumps and get it over with.

    Ah, but it was easy for Millar. He never had to face Haven.

    Tyler also has more of a "fighting chance". Millar was caught so
    red-handed that it was to implausible to deny. Tyler on the other hand
    is fighting a new procedure and thinks he can overthrow the outcome.

    I am of the opinion that IF Tyler uses doping Haven will know. If I
    follow all the confessions it seems taking doping is a lot more
    involved as just popping a pill. I doubt you can keep your spouse in
    the dark about it.

    I can't agree with that. IMO, it would probably be done in a team doctor's
    office or in a team office. If it were an autologus transfusion, one's
    spouse (and the rider) would not be at risk for any disease. I do believe
    Tyler when he says that he wouldn't do anything to potentially compromise
    his health or that of Haven. So.......maybe he did get Perez's blood by
    mistake. Does anyone know their respective blood types? Then again, blood
    is tested for hepatitis and HIV so the risk is smaller than it once was.

  8. B. Lafferty said:


    I can't agree with that. IMO, it would probably be done in a team doctor's
    office or in a team office. If it were an autologus transfusion, one's
    spouse (and the rider) would not be at risk for any disease. I do believe
    Tyler when he says that he wouldn't do anything to potentially compromise
    his health or that of Haven.

    Well... maybe you are right, but as I said... most cases in the open show that modern doping is quite involved. On the health issue... I wish that I could believe that, but so many pro's have been playing with their lives that I am afraid a lot of them just take their chances. if I follow your suggestion... autologous transfusion can hardly be called healthy...

    Quoted post said:


    So.......maybe he did get Perez's blood by
    mistake. Does anyone know their respective blood types? Then again, blood
    is tested for hepatitis and HIV so the risk is smaller than it once was.

    I was led to belief that this kind of doping was easier to detect (but I 'm not an expert). It's a good explanation though.

  9. "Tuschinski" <[email hidden]> wrote in
    message news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:


    B. Lafferty said:


    I can't agree with that. IMO, it would probably be done in a team
    doctor's
    office or in a team office. If it were an autologus transfusion,
    one's
    spouse (and the rider) would not be at risk for any disease. I do
    believe
    Tyler when he says that he wouldn't do anything to potentially
    compromise
    his health or that of Haven.

    Well... maybe you are right, but as I said... most cases in the open
    show that modern doping is quite involved. On the health issue... I
    wish that I could believe that, but so many pro's have been playing
    with their lives that I am afraid a lot of them just take their
    chances. if I follow your suggestion... autologous transfusion can
    hardly be called healthy...

    Quoted message said:


    So.......maybe he did get Perez's blood by
    mistake. Does anyone know their respective blood types? Then again,
    blood
    is tested for hepatitis and HIV so the risk is smaller than it once
    was.

    I was led to belief that this kind of doping was easier to detect (but
    I 'm not an expert). It's a good explanation though.

    At present there is a test for homolugus but not autologus transfusions.
    There should be a test for the latter coming online soon--maybe 2005?

  10. "JayofMontreal" <[email hidden]> wrote in
    news:[email hidden]:

    Quoted message said:

    I own a bridge in NYC that I can sell you for a very reasonable price.

    Though I find Tyler's innocence implausable, I am interested in the bridge.

  11. Whether Tyler did or did not do this, I don't know. What I find so completely wrong about this whole process is that the people with the UCI and WADA came right out and condemned this man who has a sparkling track record and reputation and then denied his and his team's every legitimate request to counter or prove his innocence. There was zero due process involved. It scares the [censored] out of me for any other rider because the UCI and WADA has basically established that they can accuse and condemn any rider they want at their whim. Yikes!

  12. Donald Munro <[email hidden]> wrote in
    news:[email hidden]:

    Quoted message said:

    Most of those bridges in NY are rather old and derelict.

    An apt description of me! There's something wrong with that?

    BTW, how much for the tunnel?

  13. JayofMontreal said:
    Quoted message said:

    I own a bridge in NYC that I can sell you for a very reasonable price.

    Tim Mullin said:

    Though I find Tyler's innocence implausable, I am interested in the bridge.

    Most of those bridges in NY are rather old and derelict. Are you
    interested in a tunnel connecting Britain and France (good for training in
    when its raining outside, which in Britain is most of the time).

  14. "Tim Mullin" <[email hidden]> a écrit dans le message de :
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    Donald Munro <[email hidden]> wrote in
    news:[email hidden]:

    Quoted message said:

    Most of those bridges in NY are rather old and derelict.

    An apt description of me! There's something wrong with that?

    BTW, how much for the tunnel?

    Now, under new and improved management, it remains a penny stock.
    --
    Bonne route,

    Sandy
    Verneuil-sur-Seine FR

  15. JayofMontreal said:

    I own a bridge in NYC that I can sell you for a very reasonable price.

    Hey! I bought that off Donnie Munro last year, I'm sure!

  16. Tuschinski <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

    Quoted message said:
    TM said:

    "psycholist" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    Yes, it appears Tyler should have gone the David Millar route ...


    fess up,

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    take his lumps and get it over with.

    Ah, but it was easy for Millar. He never had to face Haven.

    Tyler also has more of a "fighting chance". Millar was caught so
    red-handed that it was to implausible to deny. Tyler on the other hand
    is fighting a new procedure and thinks he can overthrow the outcome.

    I am of the opinion that IF Tyler uses doping Haven will know. If I
    follow all the confessions it seems taking doping is a lot more
    involved as just popping a pill. I doubt you can keep your spouse in
    the dark about it.

    On a somewhat related note: I saw an interview/TV special with Musseeuw
    and his wife. She said that she was tired of giving in so much to her
    husbands cycling and glad it was over. I thought she looked quite sad
    and worried when that subject was on the table. I couldn't help but
    think about doping.

    Ill bet Haven dosen't even know about Tyler's girlfriend. Or his boy
    friend for that matter!

  17. The UCI and WADA are not criminal justice systems. They are regulating
    bodies that have rules which must be followed, the penalties are known and
    if a member who is under their jurisdiction does not agree with the rules
    they are free to leave.

    Hamilton, Perez and everyone else agrees to be bound by the rules when they
    apply for licensure in their respective governing bodies. The rules state
    that if you are a cheater you are out. It doesn't say "If you are a cheater,
    we'll let you hang around and be a blight on the sport". The rules are
    severe for the reason that cheating not only hurts the sport, it directly
    affects every individual that participates in it.

    Eckimov deserves to be the Olympic TT champion, he rode the fastest, but a
    direct affect of the cheating of Hamilton is that he is now a silver
    medalist (still quite impressive, but gold is the best).

    I can understand Hamilton's need to cheat. He had an ok season, a few wins
    in lesser races, but in the big show, he was nowhere to be seen. Sponsors,
    and teams pay big $$$ for winners. I am sure the pressure is incredible (not
    to mention -- I'd imagine there are a few financial perks to winning the
    olympics). I would be the first in line for the "I understand Tyler" badge,
    as I do understand his motivation.

    "lucspop" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:


    Whether Tyler did or did not do this, I don't know. What I find so
    completely wrong about this whole process is that the people with the
    UCI and WADA came right out and condemned this man who has a sparkling
    track record and reputation and then denied his and his team's every
    legitimate request to counter or prove his innocence. There was zero
    due process involved. It scares the [censored] out of me for any other rider
    because the UCI and WADA has basically established that they can accuse
    and condemn any rider they want at their whim. Yikes!

    --
    lucspop

  18. Quoted message said:

    From: "JayofMontreal" [email hidden]

    Quoted message said:

    The UCI and WADA are not criminal justice systems. They are regulating
    bodies that have rules which must be followed, the penalties are known and
    if a member who is under their jurisdiction does not agree with the rules
    they are free to leave.

    The NGBs are basically government sponsored monopolies. When people from
    outside the GBs become eligible for National Championships and the Olympics
    then maybe this has some validity.

    Bill C

  19. JayofMontreal said:

    The UCI and WADA are not criminal justice systems. They are regulating
    bodies that have rules which must be followed, the penalties are known and
    if a member who is under their jurisdiction does not agree with the rules
    they are free to leave.

    Hamilton, Perez and everyone else agrees to be bound by the rules when they
    apply for licensure in their respective governing bodies. The rules state
    that if you are a cheater you are out. It doesn't say "If you are a cheater,
    we'll let you hang around and be a blight on the sport". The rules are
    severe for the reason that cheating not only hurts the sport, it directly
    affects every individual that participates in it.

    Eckimov deserves to be the Olympic TT champion, he rode the fastest, but a
    direct affect of the cheating of Hamilton is that he is now a silver
    medalist (still quite impressive, but gold is the best).

    I can understand Hamilton's need to cheat. He had an ok season, a few wins
    in lesser races, but in the big show, he was nowhere to be seen. Sponsors,
    and teams pay big $$$ for winners. I am sure the pressure is incredible (not
    to mention -- I'd imagine there are a few financial perks to winning the
    olympics). I would be the first in line for the "I understand Tyler" badge,
    as I do understand his motivation.

    Jay of Montreal,

    The rules do not state anything you claim. The rules state that the Court of
    Arbitration for Sport (CAS) hearing is suppose to afford due process to Tyler
    Hamilton to determine his guilt or innocence. We will see if that occurs come
    January.

    As of right now, Tyler has not been adjudicated as guilty - "a cheater" as you
    say - by any official body in cycling or elsewhere. And in fact, Hamilton
    could still race right now if he so chose to do. So your implication that
    Tyler has already been determined by the UCI, USADA, WADA, or the IOC to be a
    cheater is absolutely incorrect.

    Contrary to your distorted understanding of the rules, Ekimov does NOT deserve
    the Olympic gold medal, nor will he get it. The reason for this is because IOC
    and WADA rules are awfully clear when the B sample cannot be tested: the
    positive A sample is deemed to be non-confirmed, and the doping case must be
    dropped ACCORDING TO IOC/WADA RULES. In fact WADA chief [censored] Pound and IOC
    president Jacque Rogge both agree with Tyler that he should be allowed to keep
    his gold medal. I don't see anything that will change this.

    So I have no idea what imaginary rules you are claiming Tyler has violated at
    this point. You come across as completely oblivious to the most basic
    anti-doping rules and your comments about Tyler are closer to libel than they
    are to anything resembling truth or esoteric knowledge about the WADA
    anti-doping code.

    Finally, your in-depth profile of Tyler's "need to cheat" based on your
    unsubstantiated, misinformed, and unprofessional psychological opinion shows
    quite a reckless imagination, but once again little in terms of relevance and
    factual merit.

    Phil

  20. "JayofMontreal" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    The UCI and WADA are not criminal justice systems. They are regulating
    bodies that have rules which must be followed, the penalties are known
    and if a member who is under their jurisdiction does not agree with
    the rules they are free to leave.

    Hamilton, Perez and everyone else agrees to be bound by the rules when
    they apply for licensure in their respective governing bodies. The
    rules state that if you are a cheater you are out. It doesn't say "If
    you are a cheater, we'll let you hang around and be a blight on the
    sport". The rules are severe for the reason that cheating not only
    hurts the sport, it directly affects every individual that
    participates in it.

    Tyler doesn't disagree with the rules. However, if UCI and WADA say you
    are a cheater when you are not, I think its OK for someone not to roll
    over and die. I don't "think he is innocent" as you put it but I'm not
    fully convinced he is guilty and will wait for that final determination
    to be made.

    PH

Active in the last 60 minutes

Active in this thread

0 users · 0 guests ·0 bots ·0 total

No signed-in users are active right now.

No known search crawlers active right now.