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Two weeks progress - LC dieters only

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25 July 2004
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Badger_South
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  1. For those that follow the 'can you bike with moderate intensity' on a
    low carb diet, here's my results.

    After two weeks of 20+ fast miles (for me) at 17-18mph avg speed on
    the flats, training daily, additional slow spin/technique ride in the
    pm: definite loss of 'inches', dropped a size in bike jersey and down
    to size 'medium' bike shorts (they're tight). In the last three days,
    had two 'woosh' experiences, dropping 8lbs from Thurs to Sat, regained
    4, then lost 7 more as of this afternoon. Total wt drop over two weeks
    224lbs to 213.5lbs, with overall gain in quad and calf size.

    Time trial on the flat to a highway marker (set at 12-13 min)

    Last week: 12:12
    Mid point 12:03
    Yesterday: 11:31

    Prior to long rides (over 90 min), I ate three small pieces of dark
    chocolate. Otherwise standard Atkins <30 gms complex carbs per day.

    Energy has been extremely high, up early, riding by 06:15 on 2 out of
    3 days. (to make it back to OLN by 8! ;-p)

    FWIW,
    -B

  2. Badger_South said:

    For those that follow the 'can you bike with moderate intensity' on a
    low carb diet, here's my results.

    Is this in the nature of an experiment? Were you having trouble losing
    weight even though you're cycling like 150+ mi/wk? Why Atkins if you're
    exercising vigorously?

    Quoted message said:

    After two weeks of 20+ fast miles (for me) at 17-18mph avg speed on
    the flats, training daily, additional slow spin/technique ride in the
    pm: definite loss of 'inches', dropped a size in bike jersey and down
    to size 'medium' bike shorts (they're tight). In the last three days,
    had two 'woosh' experiences, dropping 8lbs from Thurs to Sat, regained
    4, then lost 7 more as of this afternoon. Total wt drop over two weeks
    224lbs to 213.5lbs, with overall gain in quad and calf size.

    If I'm doing the math right, you had a net loss of 11 pounds over 4
    days? That's gotta be mostly water. I've read elsewhere that the quick
    weight loss on Atkins is due in large part to water.

    Quoted message said:

    Time trial on the flat to a highway marker (set at 12-13 min)

    Last week: 12:12
    Mid point 12:03
    Yesterday: 11:31

    Prior to long rides (over 90 min), I ate three small pieces of dark
    chocolate. Otherwise standard Atkins <30 gms complex carbs per day.

    Jiminy. My post-workout snack has 22 carbs. =:-O Which I seem to
    really need. I don't notice right away if I skip the snack, but after
    several days of skipping it, my legs start feeling rundown.

    Quoted message said:

    Energy has been extremely high, up early, riding by 06:15 on 2 out of
    3 days. (to make it back to OLN by 8! ;-p)

    I'm really interested in finding out if your energy levels stay high.
    I'm no medical person, but I can't understand how you'll be able to
    replenish your glycogen stores on <30 carbs a day. Chris Carmichael has
    said that low carb diets are really for people who are inactive --
    they're not for people who work out much. Please let us know. Or let
    me know (email addy isn't munged). I'm honestly curious.

    --
    the black rose
    proud to be owned by a yorkie
    http://community.webshots.com/user/blackrosequilts


  3. Quoted message said:
    Badger_South said:

    For those that follow the 'can you bike with moderate intensity' on a
    low carb diet, here's my results.

    Is this in the nature of an experiment? Were you having trouble losing
    weight even though you're cycling like 150+ mi/wk? Why Atkins if you're
    exercising vigorously?

    I can't speak for him, but I have always been super active and yet only lost
    6 pounds cycling! Atkins is a break through that starts one on a downward
    weight progress.

    Quoted message said:

    If I'm doing the math right, you had a net loss of 11 pounds over 4
    days? That's gotta be mostly water. I've read elsewhere that the quick
    weight loss on Atkins is due in large part to water.

    Of course. ALL diets have an initial weight loss due in large part to water.

    Quoted message said:


    I'm really interested in finding out if your energy levels stay high.
    I'm no medical person, but I can't understand how you'll be able to
    replenish your glycogen stores on <30 carbs a day. Chris Carmichael has
    said that low carb diets are really for people who are inactive --
    they're not for people who work out much. Please let us know. Or let
    me know (email addy isn't munged). I'm honestly curious.

    --
    the black rose

    What you are missing is that the Atkins diet throws the body into using fats
    for energy instead of carbs. Fats are converted to starch, to sugar , and
    used as energy. I did Atkins last year and lost 40 pounds in about 5
    months. I never had low energy, either. When everyone else was snacking on
    GU and sludge bars, I would pull out some of those string cheese single
    serving containers and eat those. Besides, the "low carb" phase is only the
    first two weeks. After that, you add 5 gms of carbs the next week and then 5
    more the next week, etc. (this means the 3rd week you eat 25 carbs a day,
    the 4th week you eat 30 carbs a day, and so on) The trick is to find the
    amount of carbs you can eat and still lose weight. For some people, this can
    be 60-80 grams a day--or more depending upon how active you are. I went on
    the "lifetime maintenance" part of the diet last November and have not
    gained any weight back since then. Basically, what the diet does is wean
    you of dependence on sugar and teach you to eat high fiber vegetables.

    Pat in TX

  4. the black rose said:
    Badger_South said:

    For those that follow the 'can you bike with moderate intensity' on a
    low carb diet, here's my results.

    Is this in the nature of an experiment? Were you having trouble losing
    weight even though you're cycling like 150+ mi/wk? Why Atkins if you're
    exercising vigorously?

    Some ppl do pretty well on Atkins, even though they are exercizing.
    Were I doing -vigorous- exercise, such as an adventure race (over 5-10
    days), or the Ironman, I would be forced to switch to GU and liquid
    carbs and soforth. But at this level, apparently, even with modest
    speed for a recreational cyclist, my body can burn alternate fuel, or
    produce enough glucose through gluconeogenesis. I've been doing this
    on 100 mile weeks, daily cycling since about April.

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    After two weeks of 20+ fast miles (for me) at 17-18mph avg speed on
    the flats, training daily, additional slow spin/technique ride in the
    pm: definite loss of 'inches', dropped a size in bike jersey and down
    to size 'medium' bike shorts (they're tight). In the last three days,
    had two 'woosh' experiences, dropping 8lbs from Thurs to Sat, regained
    4, then lost 7 more as of this afternoon. Total wt drop over two weeks
    224lbs to 213.5lbs, with overall gain in quad and calf size.

    If I'm doing the math right, you had a net loss of 11 pounds over 4
    days? That's gotta be mostly water. I've read elsewhere that the quick
    weight loss on Atkins is due in large part to water.

    With this diet one sometimes has a phenomena called a 'whoosh' where
    you lose a lot of weight over only a few days. This is in addition to
    the initial water weight lost at the beginning of the LC diet, but may
    also be mostly water. However, if the loss stabilizes at the lower
    weight, even after rehydrating post-ride, then what's not to like? The
    inches and %BF decrease, I drop pants size and shirt size. The
    important part is that because of the biking, IMO, I'm keeping the
    metabolism up, and because of the increase in quad and calf size, I'm
    not losing important muscle protein. If you are sedentary, and do the
    LC diet, you may lose more muscle than someone working out.

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    Time trial on the flat to a highway marker (set at 12-13 min)

    Last week: 12:12
    Mid point 12:03
    Yesterday: 11:31

    Prior to long rides (over 90 min), I ate three small pieces of dark
    chocolate. Otherwise standard Atkins <30 gms complex carbs per day.

    Jiminy. My post-workout snack has 22 carbs. =:-O Which I seem to
    really need. I don't notice right away if I skip the snack, but after
    several days of skipping it, my legs start feeling rundown.

    If you need it, do it. I will also do some protein powder and some
    complex carbs after workouts. My legs are doing fine. If you're at
    your own target weight and nothing bulges, then why are you worried
    about diet. OTOH, if you're biking and eating carbs and are still
    'fat', then you're not dieting correctly, and you are taking in more
    calories than you need, or at the wrong times. Do you have fat and
    weight you want to lose? Why?

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    Energy has been extremely high, up early, riding by 06:15 on 2 out of
    3 days. (to make it back to OLN by 8! ;-p)

    I'm really interested in finding out if your energy levels stay high.

    Well, it's been like this for over 4 months.

    Quoted message said:

    I'm no medical person, but I can't understand how you'll be able to
    replenish your glycogen stores on <30 carbs a day. Chris Carmichael has
    said that low carb diets are really for people who are inactive --
    they're not for people who work out much. Please let us know. Or let
    me know (email addy isn't munged). I'm honestly curious.

    Your body, your science experiment. ;-)

    -B

  5. the black rose wrote:
    || Badger_South wrote:
    ||| For those that follow the 'can you bike with moderate intensity' on
    ||| a low carb diet, here's my results.
    ||
    || Is this in the nature of an experiment? Were you having trouble
    || losing weight even though you're cycling like 150+ mi/wk? Why
    || Atkins if you're exercising vigorously?
    ||
    ||| After two weeks of 20+ fast miles (for me) at 17-18mph avg speed on
    ||| the flats, training daily, additional slow spin/technique ride in
    ||| the pm: definite loss of 'inches', dropped a size in bike jersey
    ||| and down to size 'medium' bike shorts (they're tight). In the last
    ||| three days, had two 'woosh' experiences, dropping 8lbs from Thurs
    ||| to Sat, regained 4, then lost 7 more as of this afternoon. Total wt
    ||| drop over two weeks 224lbs to 213.5lbs, with overall gain in quad
    ||| and calf size.
    ||
    || If I'm doing the math right, you had a net loss of 11 pounds over 4
    || days? That's gotta be mostly water. I've read elsewhere that the
    || quick weight loss on Atkins is due in large part to water.
    ||
    ||| Time trial on the flat to a highway marker (set at 12-13 min)
    |||
    ||| Last week: 12:12
    ||| Mid point 12:03
    ||| Yesterday: 11:31
    |||
    ||| Prior to long rides (over 90 min), I ate three small pieces of dark
    ||| chocolate. Otherwise standard Atkins <30 gms complex carbs per day.
    ||
    || Jiminy. My post-workout snack has 22 carbs. =:-O Which I seem to
    || really need. I don't notice right away if I skip the snack, but
    || after several days of skipping it, my legs start feeling rundown.
    ||
    ||| Energy has been extremely high, up early, riding by 06:15 on 2 out
    ||| of 3 days. (to make it back to OLN by 8! ;-p)
    ||
    || I'm really interested in finding out if your energy levels stay high.
    || I'm no medical person, but I can't understand how you'll be able to
    || replenish your glycogen stores on <30 carbs a day. Chris Carmichael
    || has said that low carb diets are really for people who are inactive
    || -- they're not for people who work out much. Please let us know.
    || Or let me know (email addy isn't munged). I'm honestly curious.

    By active he meant people like pro bicycle racers..

  6. Roger Zoul said:

    || I'm really interested in finding out if your energy levels stay high.
    || I'm no medical person, but I can't understand how you'll be able to
    || replenish your glycogen stores on <30 carbs a day. Chris Carmichael
    || has said that low carb diets are really for people who are inactive
    || -- they're not for people who work out much. Please let us know.
    || Or let me know (email addy isn't munged). I'm honestly curious.

    By active he meant people like pro bicycle racers..

    I honestly don't think he did. He mentioned people who are working out
    at least a few times a week.

    -km

    --
    the black rose
    proud to be owned by a yorkie
    http://community.webshots.com/user/blackrosequilts

  7. Badger_South said:
    Quoted message said:

    Jiminy. My post-workout snack has 22 carbs. =:-O Which I seem to
    really need. I don't notice right away if I skip the snack, but after
    several days of skipping it, my legs start feeling rundown.

    If you need it, do it. I will also do some protein powder and some
    complex carbs after workouts. My legs are doing fine. If you're at
    your own target weight and nothing bulges, then why are you worried
    about diet. OTOH, if you're biking and eating carbs and are still
    'fat', then you're not dieting correctly, and you are taking in more
    calories than you need, or at the wrong times. Do you have fat and
    weight you want to lose? Why?

    Oh, I'm not at my target weight, hehe. I had about 20 pounds to lose
    when I started cycling again two months ago -- my target weight is what
    charts peg me at a BMI of 20, but if cycling gives me some extra muscle
    mass, I'll have to figure that in as I approach it, but my doctor
    doesn't have any problem at all with my goal (she took a careful look at
    my diet and exercise program and told me to keep at it). I've got my
    caloric intake a touch below the "if all I did was watch TV" maintenance
    level, and exercise 6 days a week (varying intensities, and according to
    a schedule). It's the heart-healthy, low-fat, low sodium diet promoted
    by the American Heart Association. I lost 3 pounds right away, then
    stalled for 7 weeks while putting on lean muscle mass (I do weight
    training 3 days a week on top of cycling); I was definitely losing fat,
    it just wasn't showing on the scale. Now the muscle growth seems to
    have slowed and the scale's going down again, a pound or so a week. I
    spent 13 years largely inactive, and they say if you do that you can
    lose 6-7 pounds of muscle mass per decade. *sigh*

    A lot of my bias against Atkins is probably due to this woman I knew
    until recently -- I suppose I need to do my own research on that diet,
    but I'm not motivated because I don't intend to follow it. It might be
    a matter of pride, I guess, but it made me determined to get into shape
    with a nice healthy low-fat, low sodium diet.

    She claimed to be an Atkins devotee. She wouldn't eat anything I
    consider healthy except the odd green leafy salad here or there,
    slathered with HUGE amounts of sour cream and guacamole -- as long as it
    didn't have carrots. She wouldn't eat carrots, or broccoli, or
    cauliflower, or any colorful vitamin-rich vegetables because "they have
    too many carbs." She wouldn't touch a piece of fruit, period, but would
    splurge on dark chocolate. All she'd eat was food that was heavy in fat
    and cholesterol and salt, claiming she didn't need to limit calories if
    she limited carbs, but then she'd lose control and pig out on Sour Cream
    'n' Onion Pringles, cheese puffs, Ritz crackers, dark chocolate, or all
    four at once. *shudder* I watched all this in horror for over a year,
    as she only grew fatter, and I vowed I'd never subscribe to such
    quackery. Personally, I think she's killing herself, and I know her
    refusal to eat any fruits and most vegetables is probably a mockery of
    what Atkins really recommends, but it's left me with the cold shudders.

    Well anyway. The recommendations from the American Heart Association
    work for me and my husband, whose father has high blood pressure, so we
    need to be aware of that risk (on my side of the family, there's just
    lots of alcoholism and cancer, oh joy). I just limit my portions. The
    nice thing about AHA cookbooks is that they give approximate caloric
    values per serving, so I get a good idea of how much I can safely eat
    and stay under my self-imposed limit.

    Probably more than you wanted to know. ;-)

    -km

    --
    the black rose
    proud to be owned by a yorkie
    http://community.webshots.com/user/blackrosequilts

  8. the black rose said:
    Roger Zoul said:

    || I'm really interested in finding out if your energy levels stay high.
    || I'm no medical person, but I can't understand how you'll be able to
    || replenish your glycogen stores on <30 carbs a day. Chris Carmichael
    || has said that low carb diets are really for people who are inactive
    || -- they're not for people who work out much. Please let us know.
    || Or let me know (email addy isn't munged). I'm honestly curious.

    By active he meant people like pro bicycle racers..

    I honestly don't think he did. He mentioned people who are working out
    at least a few times a week.

    -km

    I'm with km on that one. He seemed to mean anyone who exercises
    regularly. He mentions people who are non-sedentary and women who work
    out even a few times a week..

    --
    jmk in NC

  9. jmk said:
    the black rose said:
    Roger Zoul said:

    || I'm really interested in finding out if your energy levels stay high.
    || I'm no medical person, but I can't understand how you'll be able to
    || replenish your glycogen stores on <30 carbs a day. Chris Carmichael
    || has said that low carb diets are really for people who are inactive
    || -- they're not for people who work out much. Please let us know.
    || Or let me know (email addy isn't munged). I'm honestly curious.

    By active he meant people like pro bicycle racers..

    I honestly don't think he did. He mentioned people who are working out
    at least a few times a week.

    -km

    I'm with km on that one. He seemed to mean anyone who exercises
    regularly. He mentions people who are non-sedentary and women who work
    out even a few times a week..

    LC dieting may not be for everyone. It's better not to get over-fat to
    begin with, and had I not taken on a big computing project for over a
    year and gained 65lbs, I probably wouldn't have gone on one. But it
    taught me a lot about certain aspects of nutrition, or at least how
    foods affected me. Now I have an interest in losing the excess fat, a
    method that works for me, and a reason - biking faster and being able
    to climb a little.

    -B

  10. Badger_South said:
    jmk said:
    the black rose said:

    Roger Zoul wrote:

    > || I'm really interested in finding out if your energy levels stay
    > high.
    > || I'm no medical person, but I can't understand how you'll be able to
    > || replenish your glycogen stores on <30 carbs a day. Chris
    > Carmichael
    > || has said that low carb diets are really for people who are inactive
    > || -- they're not for people who work out much. Please let us know.
    > || Or let me know (email addy isn't munged). I'm honestly curious.
    >
    > By active he meant people like pro bicycle racers..

    I honestly don't think he did. He mentioned people who are working out
    at least a few times a week.

    -km

    I'm with km on that one. He seemed to mean anyone who exercises
    regularly. He mentions people who are non-sedentary and women who work
    out even a few times a week..

    LC dieting may not be for everyone. It's better not to get over-fat to
    begin with, and had I not taken on a big computing project for over a
    year and gained 65lbs, I probably wouldn't have gone on one. But it
    taught me a lot about certain aspects of nutrition, or at least how
    foods affected me. Now I have an interest in losing the excess fat, a
    method that works for me, and a reason - biking faster and being able
    to climb a little.

    -B

    When it comes to dishing out nutrition advice, Carmichael has a bit to
    learn. Sure, low carb might not be for Lance, but I'm very lucky to ride
    100 miles a WEEK, and Lance can ride more than that in a DAY. I work too
    much and desire a life outside of work, so working out, while a priority,
    simply has to be one of the things I do -- not the only thing. I ate low
    carb for years. I injured my ankle and couldn't exercise. When you're
    used to eating 400-500 grams of carbs a day and you don't exercise, this
    is a very bad thing. This either exacerbated the insulin resistance I
    already had or caused my insulin resistance. While I was able to begin
    working out after months of rehabilitation, I began noticing that things
    like pasta, brown rice, and the like would make my head spin. I didn't
    know at the time that the huge amount of carbs in those dished was causing
    a tremendous blood sugar spike. I started on low carb over two years ago,
    and I couldn't be happier. My HDL has improved (never over 40 on low fat,
    regardless of how much I exercised), my triglycerides have plummeted, my
    fasting blood glucose is low, and my total cholesterol/HDL has improved.
    And, I'm biking more now than I ever did on low fat.

    --
    Bob in CT
    Remove ".x" to reply

  11. jmk wrote:
    || On 7/26/2004 12:56 PM, the black rose wrote:
    ||| Roger Zoul wrote:
    |||
    |||||| I'm really interested in finding out if your energy levels stay
    |||||| high. I'm no medical person, but I can't understand how you'll
    |||||| be able to replenish your glycogen stores on <30 carbs a day.
    |||||| Chris Carmichael has said that low carb diets are really for
    |||||| people who are inactive -- they're not for people who work out
    |||||| much. Please let us know.
    |||||| Or let me know (email addy isn't munged). I'm honestly curious.
    ||||
    |||| By active he meant people like pro bicycle racers..
    |||
    |||
    ||| I honestly don't think he did. He mentioned people who are working
    ||| out at least a few times a week.
    |||
    ||| -km
    |||
    ||
    || I'm with km on that one. He seemed to mean anyone who exercises
    || regularly. He mentions people who are non-sedentary and women who
    || work out even a few times a week..

    If this is what he meant, then he's wrong, JIMO. I would agree if he means
    seriously long and stenous endurance events, like riding 100 miles every day
    and near peak speed. But, obviously, there are many over in the low-carb
    newsgroup who report working out several times a week on LC. And to mention
    it without any regard to intensity make it even harder to accept, for me.


  12. Quoted message said:

    A lot of my bias against Atkins is probably due to this woman I knew
    until recently -- I suppose I need to do my own research on that diet,
    but I'm not motivated because I don't intend to follow it. It might be
    a matter of pride, I guess, but it made me determined to get into shape
    with a nice healthy low-fat, low sodium diet.

    She claimed to be an Atkins devotee. She wouldn't eat anything I
    consider healthy except the odd green leafy salad here or there,
    slathered with HUGE amounts of sour cream and guacamole -- as long as it


    didn't have carrots. <snip>
    -km

    Quoted message said:


    --
    the black rose

    You can remove your bias against Atkins' diet then, because it is
    definitely NOT what that woman was advocating or doing. Atkins starts off
    depriving people of sugar and high glycemic carbs and then evolves into a
    normal diet albeit with restricted high glycemic carbs such as baked
    potates. Sure, you can have baked potatoes--just not every day. Everything
    in moderation, as they say. Another misconception of Atkins' diet is that
    you are supposed to gorge on fat and meat and butter. That's not true,
    either.

    Pat in TX

  13. the black rose wrote:
    || Badger_South wrote:
    |||| Jiminy. My post-workout snack has 22 carbs. =:-O Which I seem to
    |||| really need. I don't notice right away if I skip the snack, but
    |||| after several days of skipping it, my legs start feeling rundown.
    |||
    |||
    ||| If you need it, do it. I will also do some protein powder and some
    ||| complex carbs after workouts. My legs are doing fine. If you're at
    ||| your own target weight and nothing bulges, then why are you worried
    ||| about diet. OTOH, if you're biking and eating carbs and are still
    ||| 'fat', then you're not dieting correctly, and you are taking in more
    ||| calories than you need, or at the wrong times. Do you have fat and
    ||| weight you want to lose? Why?
    ||
    || Oh, I'm not at my target weight, hehe. I had about 20 pounds to lose
    || when I started cycling again two months ago -- my target weight is
    || what charts peg me at a BMI of 20, but if cycling gives me some
    || extra muscle mass, I'll have to figure that in as I approach it, but
    || my doctor doesn't have any problem at all with my goal (she took a
    || careful look at my diet and exercise program and told me to keep at
    || it). I've got my caloric intake a touch below the "if all I did was
    || watch TV" maintenance level, and exercise 6 days a week (varying
    || intensities, and according to a schedule). It's the heart-healthy,
    || low-fat, low sodium diet promoted by the American Heart Association.
    || I lost 3 pounds right away, then stalled for 7 weeks while putting
    || on lean muscle mass (I do weight training 3 days a week on top of
    || cycling); I was definitely losing fat, it just wasn't showing on the
    || scale. Now the muscle growth seems to have slowed and the scale's
    || going down again, a pound or so a week. I spent 13 years largely
    || inactive, and they say if you do that you can lose 6-7 pounds of
    || muscle mass per decade. *sigh*
    ||
    || A lot of my bias against Atkins is probably due to this woman I knew
    || until recently -- I suppose I need to do my own research on that
    || diet, but I'm not motivated because I don't intend to follow it. It
    || might be a matter of pride, I guess, but it made me determined to
    || get into shape with a nice healthy low-fat, low sodium diet.
    ||
    || She claimed to be an Atkins devotee. She wouldn't eat anything I
    || consider healthy except the odd green leafy salad here or there,
    || slathered with HUGE amounts of sour cream and guacamole -- as long
    || as it didn't have carrots. She wouldn't eat carrots, or broccoli, or
    || cauliflower, or any colorful vitamin-rich vegetables because "they
    || have too many carbs." She wouldn't touch a piece of fruit, period,
    || but would splurge on dark chocolate. All she'd eat was food that
    || was heavy in fat and cholesterol and salt, claiming she didn't need
    || to limit calories if she limited carbs, but then she'd lose control
    || and pig out on Sour Cream 'n' Onion Pringles, cheese puffs, Ritz
    || crackers, dark chocolate, or all four at once. *shudder* I watched
    || all this in horror for over a year, as she only grew fatter, and I
    || vowed I'd never subscribe to such quackery. Personally, I think
    || she's killing herself, and I know her refusal to eat any fruits and
    || most vegetables is probably a mockery of what Atkins really
    || recommends, but it's left me with the cold shudders.
    ||
    || Well anyway. The recommendations from the American Heart Association
    || work for me and my husband, whose father has high blood pressure, so
    || we need to be aware of that risk (on my side of the family, there's
    || just lots of alcoholism and cancer, oh joy). I just limit my
    || portions. The nice thing about AHA cookbooks is that they give
    || approximate caloric values per serving, so I get a good idea of how
    || much I can safely eat and stay under my self-imposed limit.
    ||
    || Probably more than you wanted to know. ;-)

    i've lost 130 lbs on a low carb diet. That woman you met is a moron.
    Broccoli and Cauliflower are two of my favorite veggies, along with spinach.
    Doing your own research is really a very good idea. Did that woman ever
    lose any weight and keep it off?

  14. Roger Zoul said:

    i've lost 130 lbs on a low carb diet. That woman you met is a moron.
    Broccoli and Cauliflower are two of my favorite veggies, along with spinach.
    Doing your own research is really a very good idea. Did that woman ever
    lose any weight and keep it off?

    Nope. She claimed to have lost weight on the diet in previous years,
    but it was obvious she was in the process of gaining it back. She only
    gained weight the entire time I knew her (a matter of a couple of years).

    Maybe next time I'm down at the library, I'll look it up, just so I
    know. Like I say, since I don't intend to follow the diet, I'm not
    terribly motivated, but knowledge is a good thing (most of the time). I
    guess I'll get around to it some time. Once the bad taste fades. :-P

    -km

    --
    the black rose
    proud to be owned by a yorkie
    http://community.webshots.com/user/blackrosequilts

  15. the black rose said:
    Roger Zoul said:

    i've lost 130 lbs on a low carb diet. That woman you met is a moron.
    Broccoli and Cauliflower are two of my favorite veggies, along with
    spinach.
    Doing your own research is really a very good idea. Did that woman ever
    lose any weight and keep it off?

    Nope. She claimed to have lost weight on the diet in previous years,
    but it was obvious she was in the process of gaining it back. She only
    gained weight the entire time I knew her (a matter of a couple of years).

    Perhaps she forgot that calories matter? How do you gain weight when you
    eat mainly vegetables?

    Quoted message said:

    Maybe next time I'm down at the library, I'll look it up, just so I
    know. Like I say, since I don't intend to follow the diet, I'm not
    terribly motivated, but knowledge is a good thing (most of the time). I
    guess I'll get around to it some time. Once the bad taste fades. :-P

    -km

    --
    Bob in CT
    Remove ".x" to reply

  16. the black rose said:
    Roger Zoul said:

    i've lost 130 lbs on a low carb diet. That woman you met is a moron.
    Broccoli and Cauliflower are two of my favorite veggies, along with spinach.
    Doing your own research is really a very good idea. Did that woman ever
    lose any weight and keep it off?

    Nope. She claimed to have lost weight on the diet in previous years,
    but it was obvious she was in the process of gaining it back. She only
    gained weight the entire time I knew her (a matter of a couple of years).

    Maybe next time I'm down at the library, I'll look it up, just so I
    know. Like I say, since I don't intend to follow the diet, I'm not
    terribly motivated, but knowledge is a good thing (most of the time). I
    guess I'll get around to it some time. Once the bad taste fades. :-P

    -km

    The only thing you need to know about the diet since you're doing fine on
    the Heart Ass'n diet is that 'fat' doesn't make you fat. What causes you to
    get fat (fat storage, increase in fat cell size), is insulin. Insulin will
    spike when you eat certain foods, especially sugar and white carbs.

    If you are also eating highly concentrated calories, such as butter, then
    that insulin being present will cause those calories to be stored in fat
    cells.

    Thus one of the worst possible combinations for a dieter, or someone who is
    insulin resistant (Insulin doesn't work as well as it should) is 'bread and
    butter'. High carbs plus concentrated calories.

    Try reading Protein Power by Eades. Even if you don't choose to go on
    Atkins, it will be a good education. Available in almost all libraries.

    -B

  17. Bob in CT said:
    the black rose said:
    Roger Zoul said:

    i've lost 130 lbs on a low carb diet. That woman you met is a moron.
    Broccoli and Cauliflower are two of my favorite veggies, along with
    spinach.
    Doing your own research is really a very good idea. Did that woman ever
    lose any weight and keep it off?

    Nope. She claimed to have lost weight on the diet in previous years,
    but it was obvious she was in the process of gaining it back. She
    only gained weight the entire time I knew her (a matter of a couple of
    years).

    Perhaps she forgot that calories matter? How do you gain weight when
    you eat mainly vegetables?

    Eh, I think you might have your lines crossed here. Zoul is the one who
    eats broccoli and cauliflower and spinach. This woman I knew wouldn't
    touch them. (Incidentally, I'm not sure I've ever met a committed
    vegetarian that was obese. Can't recall having done, anyways.)

    I would occasionally comment that a calorie is a calorie is a calorie,
    and if you consume more than you expend, you're going to store it as
    fat. She tried to convince me that if she counted carbs, she didn't
    need to count calories.

    Mm hm. I think she neglected to think it through -- it's possible she
    sometimes kicks her can into fat-burning mode, but she's obviously still
    storing more fat than she's burning.

    -km

    --
    the black rose
    proud to be owned by a yorkie
    http://community.webshots.com/user/blackrosequilts

  18. Bob in CT said:

    Perhaps she forgot that calories matter? How do you gain weight when you
    eat mainly vegetables?

    well, if you include fruit the answer is clear: avocados and olives.

    yum..
    --
    david reuteler
    [email hidden]

  19. the black rose said:

    (Incidentally, I'm not sure I've ever met a committed
    vegetarian that was obese. Can't recall having done, anyways.)

    i have. in fact i was one. it's not at all difficult to do, actually.
    think pasta and olive oil, guacamole & nuts. vegetarians are probably
    more likely to be health conscious than average but that's certainly not
    true of all of us & a vegetarian diet is hardly a recipe for weight loss.
    --
    david reuteler
    [email hidden]

  20. the black rose said:
    Quoted message said:

    Perhaps she forgot that calories matter? How do you gain weight when
    you eat mainly vegetables?

    Cover them in batter and deep-fry in a wok!

    --
    jc

    Remove the -not from email

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