Two marathons 5 weeks apart

Leafing through rec.running, I read Paul's message of 07 Oct 2004:

Quoted message said:

I'm planning to do a marathon in March next year, with a small
possibility of doing another one exactly 5 weeks later. What are my
chances of being able to run the second roughly as well as the first?
If there's not much chance then I wouldn't mind running the second one
more or less as a long run for the experience providing it's not
likely to do me any harm. Any advice?

Paul

In the book "Advanced Marathoning" by Pete Pfitzinger and Scott Douglas
there is a chapter devoted to multiple marathoning. I haven't thoroughly
read this chapter but briefly skimming over it, here are the key points:
The chapter includes 5 schedules - 12, 10, 8, 6, and 4 between marathons.
All schedules start with recovering from marathon number 1, then help you
train and taper for marathon number 2.
The 6 week schedule allocates only 2 weeks for recovery.
These schedules are for marathoners that typically build to 60 to 70
miles per week.
The schudules assume that you want to do your best in the 2nd marathon.

The 6 week schedule has weekly mileage of 25, 38, 52, 59, 46, 28. Long
runs are 8, 11, 15, 18, 13.

The 4 week schedule has weekly mileage of 25, 39, 48, 28. Long runs are
8, 12, 11.

Phil M.

--
"Coming off the last turn, my thoughts changed from 'One more try, one
more try, one more try...' to 'I can win! I can win! I can win! -Billy
Mills, U.S. Olympic 10,000 meter champion

In article said:

Leafing through rec.running, I read Paul's message of 07 Oct 2004:

Quoted message said:

I'm planning to do a marathon in March next year, with a small
possibility of doing another one exactly 5 weeks later. What are my
chances of being able to run the second roughly as well as the first?
If there's not much chance then I wouldn't mind running the second one
more or less as a long run for the experience providing it's not
likely to do me any harm. Any advice?

Quoted message said:

In the book "Advanced Marathoning" by Pete Pfitzinger and Scott Douglas
there is a chapter devoted to multiple marathoning.

Excellent, will order it tomorrow.

Quoted message said:

I haven't thoroughly
read this chapter but briefly skimming over it, here are the key points:
The chapter includes 5 schedules - 12, 10, 8, 6, and 4 between marathons.
All schedules start with recovering from marathon number 1, then help you
train and taper for marathon number 2.
The 6 week schedule allocates only 2 weeks for recovery.
These schedules are for marathoners that typically build to 60 to 70
miles per week.

I've started my 24 week plan at about 50mpw, peaking at 90, so that
looks good too.

Quoted message said:

The schudules assume that you want to do your best in the 2nd marathon.

Interesting.

Quoted message said:

The 6 week schedule has weekly mileage of 25, 38, 52, 59, 46, 28. Long
runs are 8, 11, 15, 18, 13.

The 4 week schedule has weekly mileage of 25, 39, 48, 28. Long runs are
8, 12, 11.

Thanks!

Paul

Hi paul:

<[email hidden]> wrote

Quoted message said:

I'm planning to do a marathon in March next year, with a small possibility
of doing another one exactly 5 weeks later. What are my chances of being
able to run the second roughly as well as the first?

I run 50k mountain races about 5-6 weeks apart often. I find that I can run
the second one just as well, sometimes better, than the first one. My base
is about 75/week. The bigger the base, the quicker the recovery, I've
found.

Here's what I did after a recent 50k -- the next one was 5 weeks away, and I
was notably stronger on the next 50k. Twelve days after the race, I ran a
speed workout faster than my last one before the first race.

The trick is to go easy for 10 days. I've found that I can jump right into
speedwork after that without problems.

I'm 52; if you're young, you may be able to accelerate it a bit, but don't
be afraid to take it easy for at least 7 days. When I was in my 30's I
raced a PR marathon, then did nothing but easy running for 3 weeks, no
speedwork. Then ran a very strong 20 miler and beat several Athletics West
(Nike sponsored) runners.

Here's what I did after the first 50k race mentioned above:

Sat: 50k race
Sun: 6.5 mile hike up 2,000’ climb. Felt good, almost no soreness. Weird.
Mon: 1:00 6.5 mile jog, rolling. Walked about 8 minutes of uphills. A bit
sore and tired. 1 min/mile slower than usual.
Tue: 1:10 7.5 mile jog, rolling.
Wed: 1:20 9.5 miles easy.
Thu: 2 hrs Lake Ave, still sluggish, but felt fine at a slow pace.
Fri: 1:10 easy
Sat: 17.3 mountain roads. Hooked up with Jill the Nat’l Class biker, and
she pushed me over the course. Pretty tired -- probably should have taken
it easier
Sun: Off (rest -- yesterday was a bit much)

Mon: 8 easy, walked some, not enough to eat the day before, felt tanked.
Tue: 12, moderate 3k’ climb. Millard trailhead to Mt. Lowe camp & back.
Wed: 7.5 easy, pushed last 5 min with a kid from Trade Tech XC team.
Thu: 11 Speed. 15 min w/u, hard climb in 11:16, 6’ jog, 3 x 2:00: 2:00,
2:10, 1:59. 20 min jog, hard downhill in 3:02 (pr). This is my best
workout of this format, just 12 days after a 50k ?

From here on out, I felt just fine -- Thursday's speedwork was as good as
ever.

In article said:

Hi paul:

Hi Dan,

Quoted message said:

<[email hidden]> wrote

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I'm planning to do a marathon in March next year, with a small possibility
of doing another one exactly 5 weeks later. What are my chances of being
able to run the second roughly as well as the first?

Quoted message said:

I run 50k mountain races about 5-6 weeks apart often. I find that I can run
the second one just as well, sometimes better, than the first one. My base
is about 75/week. The bigger the base, the quicker the recovery, I've
found.

Quoted message said:

The trick is to go easy for 10 days. I've found that I can jump right into
speedwork after that without problems.

Quoted message said:

Here's what I did after the first 50k race mentioned above:

[snip]

This is starting to sound like a good idea. I hope I get through the ballot
for the second marathon now.

Thanks for the advice.

Paul