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Two Keys to Weight Loss

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General fitness, health and nutrition
Published
4 June 2004
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7 June 2004
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Ta
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  1. Two Keys to Weight Loss: Cut Energy Density and Trim Portion Size

    A new study shows how remarkably easy it is to trick the
    appetite so as to cause weight loss or weight gain.
    Pennsylvania State University researchers prepared an
    Italian pasta bake for a group of 39 women on several
    different days, but varied the recipe so that it was lower
    in calories on some occasions (more vegetables, less
    cheese) and higher in calories at other times. The
    researchers also varied the portion size from 500 grams to
    700 grams and 900 grams.

    They found that, when participants were served either the
    lower-calorie version or a smaller portion at lunch, they
    did not compensate by eating more at dinner. The average
    calorie intake fell by 221 calories with the smallest and
    least energy-dense food.

    The study shows that two different strategies-reducing
    portions, plus choosing foods with low energy density, such
    as vegetables and fruits-work independently to cause a
    marked reduction in calorie intake. In contrast, increasing
    portion sizes and the use of calorie-dense foods, such as
    meat, cheese, or oil, tends to increase calorie intake
    without the diner's awareness. Here is the reference:

    Kral TVE, Roe LS, Rolls BJ. Combined effects of energy
    density and portion size on energy intake in vwomen. Am J
    Clin Nutr 2004;79:962-8.

    For information about nutrition and health, please visit
    www.pcrm.org.

  2. I remember an old study where the subjects ate a liquid only
    diet from a spout. They changed the caloric value of the
    liquid and waited. The subjects needed about two weeks
    before they adjusted the volume of the liquid they drank to
    compensate for the new caloric value.

    In this context it makes the OP's test, of changing the
    calories of lunch and then seeing if the dinner calories
    changed, meaningless. They needed to run their study for
    several weeks, minimum.

    "ta" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    "]news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    Two Keys to Weight Loss: Cut Energy Density and Trim
    Portion Size

    A new study shows how remarkably easy it is to trick the
    appetite so as to cause weight loss or weight gain.
    Pennsylvania State University


    researchers

    Quoted message said:

    prepared an Italian pasta bake for a group of 39 women
    on several


    different

    Quoted message said:

    days, but varied the recipe so that it was lower in
    calories on some occasions (more vegetables, less cheese)
    and higher in calories at other times. The researchers
    also varied the portion size from 500 grams to 700 grams
    and 900 grams.

    They found that, when participants were served either the
    lower-calorie version or a smaller portion at lunch, they
    did not compensate by eating more at dinner. The average
    calorie intake fell by 221 calories with the smallest and
    least energy-dense food.

    The study shows that two different strategies-reducing
    portions, plus choosing foods with low energy density,
    such as vegetables and fruits-work independently to cause
    a marked reduction in calorie intake. In contrast,
    increasing portion sizes and the use of calorie-dense
    foods, such as meat, cheese, or oil, tends to increase
    calorie intake without the diner's awareness. Here is the
    reference:

    Kral TVE, Roe LS, Rolls BJ. Combined effects of energy
    density and portion size on energy intake in vwomen. Am J
    Clin Nutr 2004;79:962-8.

    For information about nutrition and health, please visit
    www.pcrm.org.

  3. In article said:

    Two Keys to Weight Loss: Cut Energy Density and Trim
    Portion Size

    A new study shows how remarkably easy it is to trick the
    appetite so as to cause weight loss or weight gain.
    Pennsylvania State University researchers prepared an
    Italian pasta bake for a group of 39 women on several
    different days, but varied the recipe so that it was lower
    in calories on some occasions (more vegetables, less
    cheese) and higher in calories at other times. The
    researchers also varied the portion size from 500 grams to
    700 grams and 900 grams.

    They found that, when participants were served either the
    lower-calorie version or a smaller portion at lunch, they
    did not compensate by eating more at dinner. The average
    calorie intake fell by 221 calories with the smallest and
    least energy-dense food.

    The real question is not what happens within one day,k but
    rather what happens over a period of months.

    Quoted message said:

    The study shows that two different strategies-reducing
    portions, plus choosing foods with low energy density,
    such as vegetables and fruits-work independently to cause
    a marked reduction in calorie intake. In contrast,

    Did you know that lean meat is pretty low in energy
    density also?

    For example, lean turkey breast has 117 calories per 87
    grams.

    Quoted message said:

    increasing portion sizes and the use of calorie-dense
    foods, such as meat, cheese, or oil, tends to increase
    calorie intake without the diner's awareness.

    Not all meat is calorie dense. However, eating a lot of low
    calorie food is beneficial and I personally go through a few
    pounds of vegetables every day.

    My diet, pretty much, is mostly vegetables and meat and
    eggs. I eat other stuff also, but in smaller quantities.

    You see, I agree with you that vegetables are good, but
    concluding from this that meat is bad is unwarranted.

    i

    Quoted message said:

    Here is the reference:

    Kral TVE, Roe LS, Rolls BJ. Combined effects of energy
    density and portion size on energy intake in vwomen. Am J
    Clin Nutr 2004;79:962-8.

    For information about nutrition and health, please visit
    www.pcrm.org.

  4. "ta" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

    Quoted message said:

    Two Keys to Weight Loss: Cut Energy Density and Trim
    Portion Size

    A new study shows how remarkably easy it is to trick the
    appetite so as to cause weight loss or weight gain.
    Pennsylvania State University researchers prepared an
    Italian pasta bake for a group of 39 women on several
    different days, but varied the recipe so that it was lower
    in calories on some occasions (more vegetables, less
    cheese) and higher in calories at other times. The
    researchers also varied the portion size from 500 grams to
    700 grams and 900 grams.

    They found that, when participants were served either the
    lower-calorie version or a smaller portion at lunch, they
    did not compensate by eating more at dinner. The average
    calorie intake fell by 221 calories with the smallest and
    least energy-dense food.

    The study shows that two different strategies-reducing
    portions, plus choosing foods with low energy density,
    such as vegetables and fruits-work independently to cause
    a marked reduction in calorie intake. In contrast,
    increasing portion sizes and the use of calorie-dense
    foods, such as meat, cheese, or oil, tends to increase
    calorie intake without the diner's awareness. Here is the
    reference:

    Kral TVE, Roe LS, Rolls BJ. Combined effects of energy
    density and portion size on energy intake in vwomen. Am J
    Clin Nutr 2004;79:962-8.

    For information about nutrition and health, please visit
    www.pcrm.org.

    Asuming that calories are the only factor involved in weight
    management in humans, then you may have a point, otherwise
    this is a silly exercise in theoretical weight management.
    Calories do not trigger fat storage, hormones do, insulin to
    be precise. Calories are secondary to hormonal
    flunctuations.

    TC

  5. "ta" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

    Quoted message said:

    Two Keys to Weight Loss: Cut Energy Density and Trim
    Portion Size

    A new study shows how remarkably easy it is to trick the
    appetite so as to cause weight loss or weight gain.
    Pennsylvania State University researchers prepared an
    Italian pasta bake for a group of 39 women on several
    different days, but varied the recipe so that it was lower
    in calories on some occasions (more vegetables, less
    cheese) and higher in calories at other times. The
    researchers also varied the portion size from 500 grams to
    700 grams and 900 grams.

    They found that, when participants were served either the
    lower-calorie version or a smaller portion at lunch, they
    did not compensate by eating more at dinner. The average
    calorie intake fell by 221 calories with the smallest and
    least energy-dense food.

    The study shows that two different strategies-reducing
    portions, plus choosing foods with low energy density,
    such as vegetables and fruits-work independently to cause
    a marked reduction in calorie intake. In contrast,
    increasing portion sizes and the use of calorie-dense
    foods, such as meat, cheese, or oil, tends to increase
    calorie intake without the diner's awareness. Here is the
    reference:

    Kral TVE, Roe LS, Rolls BJ. Combined effects of energy
    density and portion size on energy intake in vwomen. Am J
    Clin Nutr 2004;79:962-8.

    For information about nutrition and health, please visit
    www.pcrm.org.

    Also for your information:

    Barbara J. Rolls, Ph.D., Johns Hopkins University School of
    Medicine (1992); Professor of Nutrition, Penn State
    University. Consultant for Knoll Pharmaceuticals and has
    received research support from, among others, Knoll, P&G,
    and ILSI. Coauthored (with James O. Hill) a 1998 report for
    ILSI on "Carbohydrates and Weight Management." (phone
    conversation w/ R. Collins, CSPI, December 6, 2000) (Newark
    Star-Ledger, 2/17/97)Research on lipid and lipoprotein
    responses to different diets partially supported by Abbott
    Laboratories. (Am. J.
    Clin. Nurt. 2000;70:839-46) Research on age related
    impairments in the regulation of food intake supported
    in part by the Campbell Soup Company. (Am. J. Clin.
    Nutr. 1995;62:923-31)

    If you want information about nutrition, www.pcrm.org is not
    a good source. If you want info about domestic terrorism or
    extreme animal rights groups or info about vegetarianism, it
    may be a good source. Otherwise the entire organisation at
    PCRM are basically extreme nut-cases that advovcate
    vegetarianism, not because it is healthy, but because it
    will avoid the harming of poor beef cows, chickens, etc.
    Hardly a scientific approach to nutrition.

    TC

  6. Very interesting, here is a repeat post I made a couple of days ago which
    discusses another aspect of our food/eating culture which affects our
    overeating:

    The perception effect of variety described is one thing some
    thinks help a low carb diet work,ie. less variety in it
    curbs hunger more quickly.

    CONCORD, N.H. (AP) - Ed Glomb admits he gets a little
    carried away when faced with the more than 150 all-you-can-
    eat options on the Red Apple Buffet's Italian-American-Chinese-
    Japanese menu.

    "Everybody has a tendency to eat with their eyes," he
    said recently, adding that he'd already eaten soup,
    shrimp and crab legs - starters to be followed by
    roast beef, potatoes and dessert. "It's a little bit
    of this and a little bit of that."

    But Glomb's tendency to pile it on at his favorite
    restaurant - and his rotund size - may have as much to
    do with the number of choices on the buffet table as
    the unlimited portions being offered.

    Call it the "salad bar effect." Studies suggest that
    variety increases consumption. With monotonous meals,
    people eat until they are full. Add variety, even
    something as subtle as different shapes of pasta, and
    they eat more.

    Studies dating back to the 1960s have shown that
    variety can increase calorie consumption an average of
    25 percent, according to Megan McCrory, a nutrition
    scientist at Tufts University.

    That has some researchers grappling with the global
    obesity epidemic considering what role an often
    dizzying array of food choices might play in expanding
    the collective waistline.

    "Nutritionists have been wrong. We've been telling you
    for years variety is important, but it's that variety
    that really helps to make you fat," said Judith S.
    Stern, vice president of the American Obesity
    Association.

    The science may not be familiar to most people, but
    its effects probably are.

    It plays out "in restaurants when you're really
    stuffed to the brim and you just can't have
    another bite," McCrory said. "Then the waiter
    brings around the dessert cart. ... There's always
    room for dessert."

    Blame it on so-called sensory specific satiety, a
    mental process that makes food taste better at first
    but progressively less interesting as a person
    continues to eat it. Switch to a new food and, even if
    the person is full, it will be appealing.

    Marketers know this. Coca-Cola sells nearly 400
    different drinks, Frito-Lay offers about 150 different
    chips and pretzels in the United States alone, and
    Campbell's produces 170 soups.

    "If all you have is chicken soup, you probably won't
    eat soup night after night," said John Faulkner, a
    spokesman for the Campbell Soup Company. "But the more
    varieties you have, the more of it you'll eat."

    Barbara Rolls, a professor of nutrition at Penn State
    University, said this dietary trigger dates back to
    humanity's early days, when survival was best served
    by a natural inclination to eat a variety of foods.

    "It encourages you to switch from food to food," she
    said. "As omnivores with a variety of nutrient
    requirements, we need to switch from food to food and
    take in a lot of different nutrients. This is actually
    an adaptive response."

    Most researchers agree on the science behind sensory
    specific satiety. Where they differ is on how it
    affects overall eating patterns and how significantly
    it contributes to obesity.

    Rolls and McCrory, two of the leading researchers in
    the field, think it does.

    "There's so much variety that especially when the
    variety tastes really good we're more apt to go ahead
    and eat it, especially when it's everywhere you turn,"
    McCrory said.

    The problem isn't just that people seek variety, but
    also that the foods they are eating are high in
    calories, Rolls said. People learn as children to
    prefer high-calorie foods because they satisfy
    cravings quickly.

    Rolls said it's a prescription for obesity - easy
    access to a growing variety of high-calorie foods
    paired with a natural inclination to eat more of them.

    And though obesity long has been considered an
    American problem, the rest of the world is catching
    up. McCrory thinks that might be due to a greater
    variety of foods becoming available in other nations,
    especially calorie-dense items.

    Availability of such foods overseas has increased
    dramatically. Since 1989, U.S. exports of snack foods
    have quadrupled to more than $1.5 billion last year,
    according to the U.S. Department of Commerce.

    An influx of variety has had a dramatic effect on the
    people of the Solomon Islands in the South Pacific,
    said Gary Miller, a professor of nutrition and obesity
    at Wake Forest University.

    He said 30 year ago the islanders' diet was limited
    mostly to what could be produced locally. Trade has
    since introduced a torrent of variety, especially calorie-
    dense foods previously absent from this nation of
    340,000 people.

    The country now has one of the highest obesity rates
    in the world.

    Richard Mattes, a nutrition professor at Purdue
    University, said it isn't that simple. Though he
    agrees that variety prompts people to eat more, he
    said studies have yet to prove the effect of sensory
    specific satiety lasts beyond a particular meal.

    In fact, some studies suggest that after a meal of
    variety-induced excess, people compensate and eat
    less later, he said.

    But Dr. Terry Maratos-Flier, head of obesity research
    at the Joslin Diabetes Center in Boston, said that's
    generally only true with lean people. Overweight
    people - roughly two-thirds of Americans - often don't
    compensate.

    Mattes also questions whether variety is responsible
    for the global spread of obesity. He said that more
    likely is due to sedentary lifestyles and an overall
    increased consumption of calorie-dense foods.

    "Has variety really increased over say the last 20, 25
    years? Yes, there have been many new products
    introduced into the market place. But that's not the
    measure," he said.

    "The measure is what are the number of unique foods
    Americans ate during the 1970s and what is the number
    of unique foods Americans are eating today?"

    Maratos-Flier thinks people are eating a greater
    variety, but not because there are more foods. She
    said low costs and ease of transportation have made it
    easier for more people to eat more food, and more
    types of food.

    Consumers are surrounded by a staggering array of
    food: The typical American grocer has 35,000 products,
    up from 10,000 in 1983, according to Walter Heller,
    research director for Progressive Grocer magazine.
    During the 1930s, it was around 800 items.

    Researchers don't think food variety alone dooms
    people to being overweight, but it doesn't hurt.

    Sensory specific satiety can help people lose weight.
    Obesity experts agree that the most successful diets
    are the most restrictive - the more people eat of one
    food, the less they want it. As a result, they eat
    less and lose weight.

    "Even if you went on a doughnut diet, if that's all
    you had you would undoubtedly lose weight because of
    monotony and lack of variety. Obviously that's not a
    good idea," Rolls said.

    But since human nature is working against it, such
    diets also are the hardest to stick with.

    Giving in to the urge for variety also can be good, as
    long as the food choices are sound. Filling up on a
    variety of low-calorie foods leaves less room for
    calorie dense-foods.

    "You can't get rid of variety. People want 100
    channels. They wants thousands of CDs and books.
    There's no policy that's going to get rid of variety
    in foods," Maratos-Flier said. "What you need is
    education" about good food choices.

    As Glomb's wife has found, human nature is hard to
    fight. The urge doesn't diminish even in the face of
    absurd variety.

    "This is good but it would be nice to have something
    different for a change," Marilynn Glomb said after
    mulling the options at the Red Apple Buffet, where the
    Merrimack couple eats twice a week. "It's the same
    thing every time you come."

    ---

    On the Web:

    Tufts University Human Nutrition Research Center on
    Aging:

    hnrc.tufts.eduhnrc.tufts.edu

    Penn State University: psu.edupsu.edu

    American Obesity Association: obesity.orgobesity.org

  7. "tcomeau" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    "]news:[email hidden]... <..>

    Quoted message said:

    If you want information about nutrition, www.pcrm.org is
    not a good source. If you want info about domestic
    terrorism or extreme animal rights groups or info about
    vegetarianism, it may be a good source. Otherwise the
    entire organisation at PCRM are basically extreme nut-
    cases that advovcate vegetarianism, not because it is
    healthy, but because it will avoid the harming of poor
    beef cows, chickens, etc. Hardly a scientific approach to
    nutrition.

    Have you any evidence to support that assertion?

  8. Ignoramus15978 wrote:
    :: In article <[email hidden]>,
    :: ta wrote:
    ::: Two Keys to Weight Loss: Cut Energy Density and Trim
    ::: Portion Size
    :::
    ::: A new study shows how remarkably easy it is to trick the
    ::: appetite so as to cause weight loss or weight gain.
    ::: Pennsylvania State University researchers prepared an
    ::: Italian pasta bake for a group of 39 women on several
    ::: different days, but varied the recipe so that it was
    ::: lower in calories on some occasions (more vegetables,
    ::: less cheese) and higher in calories at other times. The
    ::: researchers also varied the portion size from 500 grams
    ::: to 700 grams and 900 grams.
    :::
    ::: They found that, when participants were served either
    ::: the lower-calorie version or a smaller portion at lunch,
    ::: they did not compensate by eating more at dinner. The
    ::: average calorie intake fell by 221 calories with the
    ::: smallest and least energy-dense food.
    ::
    :: The real question is not what happens within one day,k
    :: but rather what happens over a period of months.
    ::
    ::: The study shows that two different strategies-reducing
    ::: portions, plus choosing foods with low energy density,
    ::: such as vegetables and fruits-work independently to
    ::: cause a marked reduction in calorie intake. In contrast,
    ::
    :: Did you know that lean meat is pretty low in energy
    :: density also?
    ::
    :: For example, lean turkey breast has 117 calories per
    :: 87 grams.
    ::
    ::: increasing portion sizes and the use of calorie-dense
    ::: foods, such as meat, cheese, or oil, tends to increase
    ::: calorie intake without the diner's awareness.
    ::
    :: Not all meat is calorie dense. However, eating a lot of
    :: low calorie food is beneficial and I personally go
    :: through a few pounds of vegetables every day.
    ::
    :: My diet, pretty much, is mostly vegetables and meat and
    :: eggs. I eat other stuff also, but in smaller quantities.
    ::
    :: You see, I agree with you that vegetables are good, but
    :: concluding from this that meat is bad is unwarranted.

    What the article talks about is just low fat.....cut energy
    density (remove fat) and trim postions....low carb works
    mainly by cutting appetite...even thought portion control
    sooner or later becomes an issue

    Again, another super-obvious study....make you wonder why
    they even bother...

    ::
    :: i
    ::
    ::: Here is the reference:
    :::
    ::: Kral TVE, Roe LS, Rolls BJ. Combined effects of energy
    ::: density and portion size on energy intake in vwomen. Am
    ::: J Clin Nutr 2004;79:962-8.
    :::
    ::: For information about nutrition and health, please visit
    ::: www.pcrm.org.

  9. tcomeau said:
    Quoted message said:

    Two Keys to Weight Loss: Cut Energy Density and Trim
    Portion Size

    A new study shows how remarkably easy it is to trick the
    appetite so as to cause weight loss or weight gain.
    Pennsylvania State University researchers prepared an
    Italian pasta bake for a group of 39 women on several
    different days, but varied the recipe so that it was lower
    in calories on some occasions (more vegetables, less
    cheese) and higher in calories at other times. The
    researchers also varied the portion size from 500 grams to
    700 grams and 900 grams.

    They found that, when participants were served either the
    lower-calorie version or a smaller portion at lunch, they
    did not compensate by eating more at dinner. The average
    calorie intake fell by 221 calories with the smallest and
    least energy-dense food.

    The study shows that two different strategies-reducing
    portions, plus choosing foods with low energy density,
    such as vegetables and fruits-work independently to cause
    a marked reduction in calorie intake. In contrast,
    increasing portion sizes and the use of calorie-dense
    foods, such as meat, cheese, or oil, tends to increase
    calorie intake without the diner's awareness. Here is the
    reference:

    Kral TVE, Roe LS, Rolls BJ. Combined effects of energy
    density and portion size on energy intake in vwomen. Am J
    Clin Nutr 2004;79:962-8.

    For information about nutrition and health, please visit
    www.pcrm.org.

    Asuming that calories are the only factor involved in
    weight management in humans,

    They're the most significant factor.

    Quoted message said:

    then you may have a point, otherwise this is a silly
    exercise in theoretical weight management.

    No, it is not.

    Quoted message said:

    Calories do not trigger fat storage,

    Consume more than your body needs and they end up as fat.

    Quoted message said:

    hormones do, insulin to be precise.

    Wrong. Some people do have hormonal problems, but they're
    exceptions to the rule. Many weight problems related to
    hormones, particularly with respect to insulin, have those
    problems as a result -- not a cause -- of poor diet and
    exercise habits. IOW, they got fat from too many calories
    and/or not enough exercise and that caused problems related
    to insulin (diabetes, resistanace, etc.). Stop putting the
    cart before the horse, chubby.

    Quoted message said:

    Calories are secondary to hormonal flunctuations.

    Wrong, frog. You got fat before you ever had problems with
    insulin because you ate too much for the activity level of
    your repulsively corpulent body.

  10. On 02 Jun 2004 16:42:47 GMT, [email hidden] announced in front of
    God and everybody:

    Quoted message said:

    The perception effect of variety described is one thing
    some thinks help a low carb diet work,ie. less variety in
    it curbs hunger more quickly.

    That is, of course, a mistaken perception. Low-carb
    doesn't work because people eat less, nor is there a lack
    of variety.

    It's also not a calorie restrictive diet. And while we're on
    the subject ...

    It's also not "zero carb."

    It's also not all about greasy burgers and unlimited bacon.

    It's also not lacking in vegetables or fiber.

    Just thought I'd clear that up.

    Dawn

  11. Calories are only secondary to hormonal fluctuations when
    there is a disease of the endocrine system (most common of
    which is hyperinsulinemia associated with insulin
    resistance). Under normal circumstances, in a normal
    individual, calories *determine* hormonal fluctuations. The
    energy intake action equals the insulin/hormone release
    reaction in a healthy person. Eat more digestible energy,
    and you will produce more insulin. Eat less energy, and your
    insulin will be low.

    If you have insulin resistance/hyperinsulinemia you can
    control it by going on a LC diet, however going on a LC diet
    only *allows* weight loss to occur. Unless you create a
    caloric deficit, in addition to normalizing insulin levels,
    you won't lose weight. The good news is that for most
    hyperinsulinemic people LC allows them to make caloric
    deficits effortlessly (unconsciously), simply because when
    their insulin levels become more stable and normal they get
    out of the "fat storage" cycle they were in. The body now
    has the overwhelming desire to dump the extra fat. With
    insulin now normal glucagon elevates, facilitating lipolysis
    (probably for the first time in a long time). They burn body
    fat so quickly that they lose their appetites completely,
    sometimes to the point of feeling nausea (high rate of fat
    burning = high ketone concentration = nausea).

    I think a LC diet isn't the answer for everyone. Some people
    just like to eat a lot, because they like to eat (not
    because of insulin resistance or some other issue). If you
    DO have hyperinsulinemia & insulin resistance, then LC is
    the *only* answer, and odds are if you go on a LC diet it
    will be like a miracle. However, if you have limited degree
    of IR and your insulin is *normal* for what you are eating,
    then you probably won't do as well on it. I mean everyone
    benefits from LC to a degree (eating whole foods that are
    low glycemic tends to quelsh appetite for everyone), but
    unless you have insulin resistance the improvement won't be
    as marked.

    I think this is why some people go on LC diets and find they
    lose weight rather quickly without watching calories,
    whereas others lose slowly and need to watch calories to
    lose. The former type of person was overweight because of
    insulin resistance mainly, the latter was likely overweight
    for reasons other than, or in addition to insulin
    resistance. The hyperinsulinemic individual is no longer
    eating foods which play havoc with their damaged metabolism,
    allowing them to normalize appetite & lose weight. The
    normal person doesn't have a damaged metabolism, so they are
    less sensitive to the effects of simple foods. There is no
    huge improvement when they omit things like bread and rice
    in favor of fat and protein.

    [email hidden] (tcomeau) wrote in message
    news:<[email hidden]>...

    Quoted message said:

    "ta" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:<[email hidden]>...

    Quoted message said:

    Asuming that calories are the only factor involved in
    weight management in humans, then you may have a point,
    otherwise this is a silly exercise in theoretical weight
    management. Calories do not trigger fat storage, hormones
    do, insulin to be precise. Calories are secondary to
    hormonal flunctuations.

    TC

  12. usual suspect said:
    tcomeau said:
    Quoted message said:

    Two Keys to Weight Loss: Cut Energy Density and Trim
    Portion Size

    A new study shows how remarkably easy it is to trick the
    appetite so as to cause weight loss or weight gain.
    Pennsylvania State University researchers prepared an
    Italian pasta bake for a group of 39 women on several
    different days, but varied the recipe so that it was
    lower in calories on some occasions (more vegetables,
    less cheese) and higher in calories at other times. The
    researchers also varied the portion size from 500 grams
    to 700 grams and 900 grams.

    They found that, when participants were served either
    the lower-calorie version or a smaller portion at lunch,
    they did not compensate by eating more at dinner. The
    average calorie intake fell by 221 calories with the
    smallest and least energy-dense food.

    The study shows that two different strategies-reducing
    portions, plus choosing foods with low energy density,
    such as vegetables and fruits-work independently to
    cause a marked reduction in calorie intake. In contrast,
    increasing portion sizes and the use of calorie-dense
    foods, such as meat, cheese, or oil, tends to increase
    calorie intake without the diner's awareness. Here is
    the reference:

    Kral TVE, Roe LS, Rolls BJ. Combined effects of energy
    density and portion size on energy intake in vwomen. Am
    J Clin Nutr 2004;79:962-8.

    For information about nutrition and health, please visit
    www.pcrm.org.

    Asuming that calories are the only factor involved in
    weight management in humans,

    They're the most significant factor.

    Quoted message said:

    then you may have a point, otherwise this is a silly
    exercise in theoretical weight management.

    No, it is not.

    Quoted message said:

    Calories do not trigger fat storage,

    Consume more than your body needs and they end up as fat.

    Quoted message said:

    hormones do, insulin to be precise.

    Wrong. Some people do have hormonal problems, but they're
    exceptions to the rule. Many weight problems related to
    hormones, particularly with respect to insulin, have those
    problems as a result -- not a cause -- of poor diet and
    exercise habits. IOW, they got fat from too many calories
    and/or not enough exercise and that caused problems
    related to insulin (diabetes, resistanace, etc.). Stop
    putting the cart before the horse, chubby.

    Oh, you must mean the poor "low fat" diet espoused by the
    Government, then, as that's what caused my insulin
    resistance. Or perhaps genetics, but apparently you don't
    believe in genetics.

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    Calories are secondary to hormonal flunctuations.

    Wrong, frog. You got fat before you ever had problems with
    insulin because you ate too much for the activity level of
    your repulsively corpulent body.

    Do you live near CT? Do you ride a bike? If so, care to go
    for a 60+ mile bike ride with someone who's obese by BMI?

    --
    Bob in CT Remove ".x" to reply

  13. In article said:


    Wrong. Some people do have hormonal problems, but they're
    exceptions to the rule. Many weight problems related to
    hormones, particularly with respect to insulin, have those
    problems as a result -- not a cause -- of poor diet and
    exercise habits. IOW, they got fat from too many calories
    and/or not enough exercise and that caused problems
    related to insulin (diabetes, resistanace, etc.). Stop
    putting the cart before the horse, chubby.

    Even if their hormonal problems are caused by
    overeating, those people with "hormonal problems" are
    where they are, and need to eat to right according to
    their hormonal imbalances. That, practically speaking,
    means a high fat diet...

    i

  14. "usual suspect" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    "]news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:


    Wrong, frog. You got fat before you ever had problems with
    insulin because


    you

    Quoted message said:

    ate too much for the activity level of your repulsively
    corpulent body.

    LOL

  15. puta loca said:
    Quoted message said:

    If you want information about nutrition, www.pcrm.org is
    not a good source. If you want info about domestic
    terrorism or extreme animal rights groups or info about
    vegetarianism, it may be a good source. Otherwise the
    entire organisation at PCRM are basically extreme nut-
    cases that advovcate vegetarianism, not because it is
    healthy, but because it will avoid the harming of poor
    beef cows, chickens, etc. Hardly a scientific approach to
    nutrition.

    Have you any evidence to support that assertion?

    People for the Ethical Treatment of Animals (PETA)
    gave over $45,000 to the legal defense fund of ALF
    terrorist Rodney Coronado, and even directly gave
    $1,500 to the "North American Earth Liberation
    Front." But not all the funding is so overt.

    PETA also established a foundation to funnel over
    $590,000 to a group called Physicians Committee for
    Responsible Medicine (PCRM). Far from the
    independent medical organization it pretends to be,
    PCRM is an animal rights front group.

    PCRM's Neal Barnard recently engineered a letter-
    writing campaign with Kevin Jonas of the violent
    animal rights group SHAC -- and a former spokesman
    for ALF. consumerfreedom.comoped detail
    .cfm?OPED_ID=140

    Washington, DC -- Seven leaders of the violent
    animal rights group SHAC (Stop Huntingdon Animal
    Cruelty) were taken into custody this morning. A five-
    count federal indictment accuses SHAC's leaders of
    terrorizing and stalking people because of their
    connections to disease research involving animals.
    The impact of these arrests will also undoubtedly be
    felt inside several "mainstream" animal rights
    charities: Some of today's arrestees are closely
    connected to People for the Ethical Treatment of
    Animals (PETA) and its affiliated pseudo-medical
    front group, the Physicians Committee for
    Responsible Medicine.

    The Center for Consumer Freedom (CCF) is America's
    premier research organization uncovering the
    disturbing and violent underbelly of today's animal
    rights movement.

    "Arrested SHAC leader Joshua Harper received a
    $5,000 grant from PETA in 2001," said CCF director
    of research David Martosko. "Andy Stepanian
    organizes rock concerts used by PETA to recruit
    teenagers into the radical animal rights movement.
    In recent years, SHAC president (and recent
    arrestee) Kevin Jonas has co-signed a series of
    letters with PETA Foundation president Neal Barnard,
    aimed at convincing pharmaceutical companies to pull
    their business from SHAC's main target. Barnard also
    runs the Physicians Committee for Responsible
    Medicine (PCRM), PETA's quasi-medical front group."

    "SHAC would never have existed without PETA,"
    Martosko added. "SHAC may turn out to be the
    mainstream animal-rights movement's Achilles Heel.
    PETA started this ball rolling. And if there's any
    justice, it will be their undoing." Mr. Martosko is
    available for interview.

    The Center For Consumer Freedom's in-depth analysis
    of the violent SHAC organization is available at
    activistcash.comactivistcash.com. consumerfre-consumerfre-
    edom.com/release_detail.cfm?PR_ID=55

    Less than 5 percent of PCRM's members are
    physicians. And Barnard has co-signed letters, on
    PCRM letterhead, with the leader of Stop Huntingdon
    Animal Cruelty, an animal-rights group the
    Department of Justice calls a "domestic terrorist
    threat." PCRM also has ties to People for the
    Ethical Treatment of Animals. An agency called the
    Foundation to Support Animal Protection has
    distributed money from PETA to PCRM in the past and,
    until very recently, did both groups' books. Barnard
    and PETA head Ingrid Newkirk are both on the
    foundation's board.
    msnbc.msn.com4271856

    The American Medical Association (AMA), which
    actually represents the medical profession, has
    called PCRM a “fringe organization” that uses
    “unethical tactics” and is “interested in
    perverting medical science.” The AMA’s strong
    criticism of PCRM includes a rare formal censure,
    which remains in force as a statement of official
    AMA policy. activistcash.comorganizati
    on_overview.cfm/oid/23

    Scroll down to the part titled "What Real Doctors Think of
    PCRM" for more really interesting stuff from the AMA.

  16. usual suspect wrote:
    :: tcomeau wrote:
    :::: Two Keys to Weight Loss: Cut Energy Density and Trim
    :::: Portion Size
    ::::
    :::: A new study shows how remarkably easy it is to trick
    :::: the appetite so as to cause weight loss or weight gain.
    :::: Pennsylvania State University researchers prepared an
    :::: Italian pasta bake for a group of 39 women on several
    :::: different days, but varied the recipe so that it was
    :::: lower in calories on some occasions (more vegetables,
    :::: less cheese) and higher in calories at other times. The
    :::: researchers also varied the portion size from 500 grams
    :::: to 700 grams and 900 grams.
    ::::
    :::: They found that, when participants were served either
    :::: the lower-calorie version or a smaller portion at
    :::: lunch, they did not compensate by eating more at
    :::: dinner. The average calorie intake fell by 221 calories
    :::: with the smallest and least energy-dense food.
    ::::
    :::: The study shows that two different strategies-reducing
    :::: portions, plus choosing foods with low energy density,
    :::: such as vegetables and fruits-work independently to
    :::: cause a marked reduction in calorie intake. In
    :::: contrast, increasing portion sizes and the use of calorie-
    :::: dense foods, such as meat, cheese, or oil, tends to
    :::: increase calorie intake without the diner's awareness.
    :::: Here is the reference:
    ::::
    :::: Kral TVE, Roe LS, Rolls BJ. Combined effects of energy
    :::: density and portion size on energy intake in vwomen. Am
    :::: J Clin Nutr 2004;79:962-8.
    ::::
    :::: For information about nutrition and health, please
    :::: visit www.pcrm.org.
    :::
    ::: Asuming that calories are the only factor involved in
    ::: weight management in humans,
    ::
    :: They're the most significant factor.
    ::
    ::: then you may have a point, otherwise this is a silly
    ::: exercise in theoretical weight management.
    ::
    :: No, it is not.
    ::
    ::: Calories do not trigger fat storage,
    ::
    :: Consume more than your body needs and they end up as fat.

    Not if you lift weights correctly. Some calories can go into
    building muscle.

    Excess calories do trigger anabolic hormones and depending
    on what else is happenning in the body, that can definitely
    lead to fat storage.

  17. "pearl" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

    Quoted message said:

    "tcomeau" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    -"]news:[email hidden]-
    ... <..>

    Quoted message said:

    If you want information about nutrition, www.pcrm.org is
    not a good source. If you want info about domestic
    terrorism or extreme animal rights groups or info about
    vegetarianism, it may be a good source. Otherwise the
    entire organisation at PCRM are basically extreme nut-
    cases that advovcate vegetarianism, not because it is
    healthy, but because it will avoid the harming of poor
    beef cows, chickens, etc. Hardly a scientific approach
    to nutrition.

    Have you any evidence to support that assertion?

    ncahf.orgpcrm.html

    activistcash.com23

    activistcash.comorganization connections.
    cfm/oid/23

    disinfopedia.orgwiki.phtml
    mittee_for_Responsible_Medicine

    animalrights.netpcrm.h
    tml

    animalconcerns.orgresource.html
    005613528196&catid=5

    consumerfreedom.comheadline detail.cfm
    NE_ID=1272

    consumerfreedom.comconsumerfreedom.com

    theomnivore.comPhysicians%20Committee%20for%20I
    rresponsible%20Medicine%20.html

    animalscam.compcrm shac1.cfm

    prnewswire.comcgi
    bin/stories.pl?ACCT=104&STORY=/www/story/05-27-
    2004/0002183127&EDATE=

    stopecoviolence.com10 10 02.pdf

    biobn.comindex.cfm
    539

    rajuabju.competa.htm

    amprogress.orgResearchOpposi
    tionmain.cfm

    maninnature.comRights1p.html

    fass.orgnews item.asp

    abcnews.go.comecoterror suppo
    rt020226.html

    Is that enough evidence?

    TC

  18. "pearl" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

    Quoted message said:

    "tcomeau" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    -"]news:[email hidden]-
    ... <..>

    Quoted message said:

    If you want information about nutrition, www.pcrm.org is
    not a good source. If you want info about domestic
    terrorism or extreme animal rights groups or info about
    vegetarianism, it may be a good source. Otherwise the
    entire organisation at PCRM are basically extreme nut-
    cases that advovcate vegetarianism, not because it is
    healthy, but because it will avoid the harming of poor
    beef cows, chickens, etc. Hardly a scientific approach
    to nutrition.

    Have you any evidence to support that assertion?

    And right from the horses mouths:

    animaldefense.comLinks.html

    TC

  19. "pearl" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

    Quoted message said:

    "tcomeau" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    -"]news:[email hidden]-
    ... <..>

    Quoted message said:

    If you want information about nutrition, www.pcrm.org is
    not a good source. If you want info about domestic
    terrorism or extreme animal rights groups or info about
    vegetarianism, it may be a good source. Otherwise the
    entire organisation at PCRM are basically extreme nut-
    cases that advovcate vegetarianism, not because it is
    healthy, but because it will avoid the harming of poor
    beef cows, chickens, etc. Hardly a scientific approach
    to nutrition.

    Have you any evidence to support that assertion?

    It really is quite well known that PCRM are a front group
    for PeTA. They aren't even actually physicians.

    mofed.orgPCRM.htm

  20. usual suspect <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

    Quoted message said:
    tcomeau said:
    Quoted message said:

    Two Keys to Weight Loss: Cut Energy Density and Trim
    Portion Size

    A new study shows how remarkably easy it is to trick the
    appetite so as to cause weight loss or weight gain.
    Pennsylvania State University researchers prepared an
    Italian pasta bake for a group of 39 women on several
    different days, but varied the recipe so that it was
    lower in calories on some occasions (more vegetables,
    less cheese) and higher in calories at other times. The
    researchers also varied the portion size from 500 grams
    to 700 grams and 900 grams.

    They found that, when participants were served either
    the lower-calorie version or a smaller portion at lunch,
    they did not compensate by eating more at dinner. The
    average calorie intake fell by 221 calories with the
    smallest and least energy-dense food.

    The study shows that two different strategies-reducing
    portions, plus choosing foods with low energy density,
    such as vegetables and fruits-work independently to
    cause a marked reduction in calorie intake. In contrast,
    increasing portion sizes and the use of calorie-dense
    foods, such as meat, cheese, or oil, tends to increase
    calorie intake without the diner's awareness. Here is
    the reference:

    Kral TVE, Roe LS, Rolls BJ. Combined effects of energy
    density and portion size on energy intake in vwomen. Am
    J Clin Nutr 2004;79:962-8.

    For information about nutrition and health, please visit
    www.pcrm.org.

    Asuming that calories are the only factor involved in
    weight management in humans,

    They're the most significant factor.

    Quoted message said:

    then you may have a point, otherwise this is a silly
    exercise in theoretical weight management.

    No, it is not.

    Quoted message said:

    Calories do not trigger fat storage,

    Consume more than your body needs and they end up as fat.

    How exactly does that happen? How does the excess calories
    directly trigger fat storage? What are the specific
    metabolic processes involves? Huh?

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    hormones do, insulin to be precise.

    Wrong. Some people do have hormonal problems, but they're
    exceptions to the rule. Many weight problems related to
    hormones, particularly with respect to insulin, have those
    problems as a result -- not a cause -- of poor diet and
    exercise habits. IOW, they got fat from too many calories
    and/or not enough exercise and that caused problems
    related to insulin (diabetes, resistanace, etc.). Stop
    putting the cart before the horse, chubby.

    Quoted message said:

    Calories are secondary to hormonal flunctuations.

    Wrong, frog. You got fat before you ever had problems with
    insulin because you ate too much for the activity level of
    your repulsively corpulent body.

    I repeat... How exactly does that happen? How does the
    excess calories directly trigger fat storage? What are the
    specific metabolic processes involves? Huh?

    Frog? What the hell kind of racist bulshit is that? F**k
    you, jackass.

    TC

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