Two categories, with and without doping?

fixit said:

Just want to know what others think about this...

Nice concept---however, as a practical matter we already have this in play now. The top guys dope and the not-so-good guys do not and remain lowly amateur riders. Bear in mind there is no way to establish compliance---other than to trust one another.

Let's see who is still racing in 20 years.

I believe the clean riders can function for more years---but at a much lower power output and average performance.

Flyer said:

Nice concept---however, as a practical matter we already have this in play now. The top guys dope and the not-so-good guys do not and remain lowly amateur riders. Bear in mind there is no way to establish compliance---other than to trust one another.

Let's see who is still racing in 20 years.

I believe the clean riders can function for more years---but at a much lower power output and average performance.

Mate, there's doping in amateurs as well as pro's. Just that the products are not as good. Cortico's especially, stimulants too. At least in Europe and Aus, don't know about the USA. Amateurs here (Australia) are maybe somewhere between 20-80 and 50-50 doping, pro riders are probably 50-50.

Roadie_scum said:

Mate, there's doping in amateurs as well as pro's. Just that the products are not as good. Cortico's especially, stimulants too. At least in Europe and Aus, don't know about the USA. Amateurs here (Australia) are maybe somewhere between 20-80 and 50-50 doping, pro riders are probably 50-50.

Absolutely correct. I raced with a fellow who joked about his Growth Hormones being covered by his new team. Just two weeks after that remark---he tested positive for steroids at the Redlands Classic.

I did not learn of his doping test until late August (6 months later)---long after he won lots of prize money---which he has no intention of refunding btw. Lesson learned: CRIME PAYS in the short-term.

Tyler won't return his Medal.

Santiago won't forfeit his Vuelta trophy either.

Insofaras your statistics---who knows what is correct. You number may be spot on. We will never know.

At the top UCI level---it is 100% doping useage for sure.

Beastt may be looking for trade work in cover stories. He would be good at that---bad at disclosure---but great at fairytales.

Flyer said:

The top guys dope and the not-so-good guys do not and remain lowly amateur riders.

In my experience it's the not-so-good guys who dope, because they wanna be good, but lack the real talent.

fixit said:

In my experience it's the not-so-good guys who dope, because they wanna be good, but lack the real talent.

In my experience, it is both.

Hard to them apart though.

Results are distict from Good vrs Evil.

Be good.

Roadie_scum said:

Mate, there's doping in amateurs as well as pro's. Just that the products are not as good. Cortico's especially, stimulants too. At least in Europe and Aus, don't know about the USA. Amateurs here (Australia) are maybe somewhere between 20-80 and 50-50 doping, pro riders are probably 50-50.

Nice figures. Where did you get them?

mitosis said:

Nice figures. Where did you get them?

I made them up 🙂

They are a guess based on speaking to people who know a thing or two about the system. I wouldn't place too much weight on them. Could be much higher in the pro ranks, depending on who I believe...

I remember once a friend of mine did a survey on a group of upcoming 17-20 year old cyclists about their attitudes to drugs in sport. They all thought they were 'bad' to some degree, but every single one of them said they would take drugs if it was the difference between getting a contract and remaining an amateur. Scary.

Flyer said:

Santiago won't forfeit his Vuelta trophy either.

Do you think so? It was said that his positive test pointed out blood transfusion before or even during Vuelta!

what, so could have two categories?

UCI -- Union Cycliste Internationale
and
UCI -- Union Cheaters Internationale

tcklyde said:

what, so could have two categories?

UCI -- Union Cycliste Internationale
and
UCI -- Union Cheaters Internationale

Well done!

You could do this with all of the sporting federations as well.

If there ever were an "dopers only class" nobody would enroll. The dopers are addicts. Addicts by definition must "deny" the abuse and would all enroll in the "clean category", thus cheating again.

It is a sad story with no solution in sight.

tcklyde said:

what, so could have two categories?

UCI -- Union Cycliste Internationale
and
UCI -- Union Cheaters Internationale

Well done!

You could do this with all of the sporting federations as well.

If there ever were an "dopers only class" nobody would enroll. The dopers are addicts. Addicts by definition must "deny" the abuse and would all enroll in the "clean category", thus cheating again.

It is a sad story with no solution in sight.