Tweaked my back AGAIN

"Hugh Beyer" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I tweaked my back on a heavy DL set, being stupid and thinking I had to
make
the same weight as I made the week before even though the whole workout
sucked. Nothing permanent, but irritating and will keep me off DL's
entirely
for a week or two.

So talk to me about what to do to strengthen my back for the future. I'm
in
a gym now so I can do back extensions. Are they good? With weight? How
much?
How fast can I add weight? What about good mornings? Any of the machines
worth it? Lyle talked about doing SLDL's with light weight, allowing your
back to round. What would a good program for back health?

Don't talk to me about keeping good form. I carved "KEEP GOOD FORM" on the
head of a mallet and I'm pounding it into my skull every evening before
bed.

Hugh

--
Experience keeps a dear school, but fools will attend no other.

I like reverse hypers, good mornings and romanian dead lifts for helping my
deadlift and working my low back.

On 15 Mar 2005 02:21:26 GMT, Hugh Beyer <[email hidden]> wrote in
misc.fitness.weights:

Quoted message said:

I tweaked my back on a heavy DL set, being stupid and thinking I had to make
the same weight as I made the week before even though the whole workout
sucked. Nothing permanent, but irritating and will keep me off DL's entirely
for a week or two.

So talk to me about what to do to strengthen my back for the future. I'm in
a gym now so I can do back extensions. Are they good? With weight? How much?
How fast can I add weight? What about good mornings? Any of the machines
worth it? Lyle talked about doing SLDL's with light weight, allowing your
back to round. What would a good program for back health?

Don't talk to me about keeping good form. I carved "KEEP GOOD FORM" on the
head of a mallet and I'm pounding it into my skull every evening before bed.

Is anyone watching your "good form"?

Quoting Hugh Beyer <[email hidden]>:

Quoted message said:

I tweaked my back on a heavy DL set, being stupid and thinking I had to make
the same weight as I made the week before even though the whole workout
sucked. Nothing permanent, but irritating and will keep me off DL's entirely
for a week or two.

So talk to me about what to do to strengthen my back for the future. I'm in
a gym now so I can do back extensions. Are they good? With weight? How much?
How fast can I add weight? What about good mornings? Any of the machines
worth it?

Back extensions are great if you've got access to do them.

Quoted message said:

Lyle talked about doing SLDL's with light weight, allowing your
back to round. What would a good program for back health?

Don't talk to me about keeping good form. I carved "KEEP GOOD FORM" on the
head of a mallet and I'm pounding it into my skull every evening before bed.

I regularly do SLDLs in the fashion you described above, as well as
reverse hypers.

Another thing I'll occasionally do is carefully supported one-armed
dumbbell rows with a rounded back and lighter weight.

S., who works out at home.

"Kevin J. Coolidge" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"Hugh Beyer" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I tweaked my back on a heavy DL set, being stupid and thinking I had to
make
the same weight as I made the week before even though the whole workout
sucked. Nothing permanent, but irritating and will keep me off DL's
entirely
for a week or two.

So talk to me about what to do to strengthen my back for the future. I'm
in
a gym now so I can do back extensions. Are they good? With weight? How
much?
How fast can I add weight? What about good mornings? Any of the machines
worth it? Lyle talked about doing SLDL's with light weight, allowing

your

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

back to round. What would a good program for back health?

Don't talk to me about keeping good form. I carved "KEEP GOOD FORM" on

the

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

head of a mallet and I'm pounding it into my skull every evening before
bed.

Hugh

--
Experience keeps a dear school, but fools will attend no other.

I like reverse hypers, good mornings and romanian dead lifts for helping

my

Quoted message said:

deadlift and working my low back.

I like GM's too. It's funny when I start doing them, everyone in the weight
section at 24 hr stops to watch. I always get, "Doesn't that hurt your
back?"

John Hanson <[email hidden]> wrote in
news:[email hidden]:

Quoted message said:

On 15 Mar 2005 02:21:26 GMT, Hugh Beyer <[email hidden]> wrote in
misc.fitness.weights:

Quoted message said:

I tweaked my back on a heavy DL set, being stupid and thinking I had to
make the same weight as I made the week before even though the whole
workout sucked. Nothing permanent, but irritating and will keep me off
DL's entirely for a week or two.

So talk to me about what to do to strengthen my back for the future. I'm
in a gym now so I can do back extensions. Are they good? With weight?
How much? How fast can I add weight? What about good mornings? Any of
the machines worth it? Lyle talked about doing SLDL's with light weight,
allowing your back to round. What would a good program for back health?

Don't talk to me about keeping good form. I carved "KEEP GOOD FORM" on
the head of a mallet and I'm pounding it into my skull every evening
before bed.

Is anyone watching your "good form"?

No, and that's a good point. I could take video. And there is one guy in the
gym whose own form is excellent--at least to my eye--I could ask his
opinion.

Hugh

--
Experience keeps a dear school, but fools will attend no other.

"Hugh Beyer" <[email hidden]> wrote

Quoted message said:

I tweaked my back on a heavy DL set, being stupid and thinking I had to

make

Quoted message said:

the same weight as I made the week before even though the whole workout
sucked. Nothing permanent, but irritating and will keep me off DL's

entirely

Quoted message said:

for a week or two.

So talk to me about what to do to strengthen my back for the future.
[snip]

Hugh -
On Mistress Krista's advice, I've been reading Stuart McGill's "Ultimate
Back Fitness and Performance". So far I've been finding it an excellent
read, explaining in understandable detail what goes on in the back. I find
it to be very athlete oriented, with particular attention to the strength
athlete. He's pretty conservative, but he definitely knows his kinesiology
and is well regarded professionally (AFAICT).

This isn't the easiest book to find, because I think it's self-published,
but he sells it on his website http://www.backfitpro.com/ultbackbook.htm

I got a copy through interlibrary loan and it had to come from another
state(!). I found his other book, "Low Back Disorders" in my local library,
but that one is definitely written for the physical therapist/doctor point
of view. I didn't find it very accessible.

Don't know if you like to research this kind of thing, but if you do, this
looks to be a good book. He specifically thanks Mel Siff (and someone else
in the strength world, Hatfield or Louis Simmons, I forget who) in his
acknowledgements for their contributions.

I also thought your idea of getting the one other guy whose form you think
is good to check yours is a very good one.

Keep it light as you return, and keep that KGF mallet handy :-)

Good luck,
Selene

"Selene" <[email hidden]> wrote in
news:[email hidden]:

Quoted message said:

"Hugh Beyer" <[email hidden]> wrote

Quoted message said:

I tweaked my back on a heavy DL set, being stupid and thinking I had to
make the same weight as I made the week before even though the whole
workout sucked. Nothing permanent, but irritating and will keep me off
DL's entirely for a week or two.

So talk to me about what to do to strengthen my back for the future.
[snip]

Hugh -
On Mistress Krista's advice, I've been reading Stuart McGill's "Ultimate
Back Fitness and Performance". So far I've been finding it an excellent
read, explaining in understandable detail what goes on in the back. I
find it to be very athlete oriented, with particular attention to the
strength athlete. He's pretty conservative, but he definitely knows his
kinesiology and is well regarded professionally (AFAICT).

This isn't the easiest book to find, because I think it's
self-published, but he sells it on his website
http://www.backfitpro.com/ultbackbook.htm

I got a copy through interlibrary loan and it had to come from another
state(!). I found his other book, "Low Back Disorders" in my local
library, but that one is definitely written for the physical
therapist/doctor point of view. I didn't find it very accessible.

Don't know if you like to research this kind of thing, but if you do,
this looks to be a good book. He specifically thanks Mel Siff (and
someone else in the strength world, Hatfield or Louis Simmons, I forget
who) in his acknowledgements for their contributions.

I also thought your idea of getting the one other guy whose form you
think is good to check yours is a very good one.

Keep it light as you return, and keep that KGF mallet handy :-)

Good luck,
Selene

Hmm, the books not in our library system. I'll check out the website,
thanks.

Hugh

--
Experience keeps a dear school, but fools will attend no other.

Suze <suze_anderson@spamcop/dot/obvious> wrote in
news:[email hidden]:

Quoted message said:

Quoting Hugh Beyer <[email hidden]>:

Quoted message said:

I tweaked my back on a heavy DL set, being stupid and thinking I had to
make the same weight as I made the week before even though the whole
workout sucked. Nothing permanent, but irritating and will keep me off
DL's entirely for a week or two.

So talk to me about what to do to strengthen my back for the future. I'm
in a gym now so I can do back extensions. Are they good? With weight?
How much? How fast can I add weight? What about good mornings? Any of
the machines worth it?

Back extensions are great if you've got access to do them.

Quoted message said:

Lyle talked about doing SLDL's with light weight, allowing your
back to round. What would a good program for back health?

Don't talk to me about keeping good form. I carved "KEEP GOOD FORM" on
the head of a mallet and I'm pounding it into my skull every evening
before bed.

I regularly do SLDLs in the fashion you described above, as well as
reverse hypers.

Another thing I'll occasionally do is carefully supported one-armed
dumbbell rows with a rounded back and lighter weight.

S., who works out at home.

One-arm DB rows with a round back? Hard for me to see how that works, since
you don't generally move your back with the one-arm rows.

Hugh

--
Experience keeps a dear school, but fools will attend no other.

In article <[email hidden]>, Hugh Beyer

Quoted message said:

Suze <suze_anderson@spamcop/dot/obvious> wrote in
news:[email hidden]:

Quoted message said:

Quoting Hugh Beyer <[email hidden]>:

Quoted message said:

I tweaked my back on a heavy DL set, being stupid and thinking I had to
make the same weight as I made the week before even though the whole
workout sucked. Nothing permanent, but irritating and will keep me off
DL's entirely for a week or two.

So talk to me about what to do to strengthen my back for the future. I'm
in a gym now so I can do back extensions. Are they good? With weight?
How much? How fast can I add weight? What about good mornings? Any of
the machines worth it?

Back extensions are great if you've got access to do them.

Quoted message said:

Lyle talked about doing SLDL's with light weight, allowing your
back to round. What would a good program for back health?

Don't talk to me about keeping good form. I carved "KEEP GOOD FORM" on
the head of a mallet and I'm pounding it into my skull every evening
before bed.

I regularly do SLDLs in the fashion you described above, as well as
reverse hypers.

Another thing I'll occasionally do is carefully supported one-armed
dumbbell rows with a rounded back and lighter weight.

S., who works out at home.

One-arm DB rows with a round back? Hard for me to see how that works, since
you don't generally move your back with the one-arm rows.

It wouldn't do much for your lower back that I can see. Statically holding
the back in a rounded position while in support doesn't seem like a great
lower back exercise.

Round back lifting (light!) makes some sense. I'd hit good morning fairly
heavy to teach keeping the back flat. And work on keeping the glutes and
hamstrings loose with some stretches (dynamic before training - static
after).

[email hidden] (Hobbes) wrote in
news:khobman800-1503051123000001@localhost:

Quoted message said:

In article <[email hidden]>, Hugh Beyer

Quoted message said:

Suze <suze_anderson@spamcop/dot/obvious> wrote in
news:[email hidden]:

Quoted message said:

Quoting Hugh Beyer <[email hidden]>:

>I tweaked my back on a heavy DL set, being stupid and thinking I had
>to make the same weight as I made the week before even though the
>whole workout sucked. Nothing permanent, but irritating and will keep
>me off DL's entirely for a week or two.
>
>So talk to me about what to do to strengthen my back for the future.
>I'm in a gym now so I can do back extensions. Are they good? With
>weight? How much? How fast can I add weight? What about good
>mornings? Any of the machines worth it?

Back extensions are great if you've got access to do them.

>Lyle talked about doing SLDL's with light weight, allowing your
>back to round. What would a good program for back health?
>
>Don't talk to me about keeping good form. I carved "KEEP GOOD FORM"
>on the head of a mallet and I'm pounding it into my skull every
>evening before bed.

I regularly do SLDLs in the fashion you described above, as well as
reverse hypers.

Another thing I'll occasionally do is carefully supported one-armed
dumbbell rows with a rounded back and lighter weight.

S., who works out at home.

One-arm DB rows with a round back? Hard for me to see how that works,
since you don't generally move your back with the one-arm rows.

It wouldn't do much for your lower back that I can see. Statically
holding the back in a rounded position while in support doesn't seem
like a great lower back exercise.

Round back lifting (light!) makes some sense. I'd hit good morning
fairly heavy to teach keeping the back flat. And work on keeping the
glutes and hamstrings loose with some stretches (dynamic before training
- static after).

Good mornings <shudder>. I suppose I should recognize that every PL'er
does them. OK, they go on the list.

Hugh of the tight hamstrings

--
Experience keeps a dear school, but fools will attend no other.

"Hobbes" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:khobman800-1503051123000001@localhost...

-snip-

Quoted message said:

I'd hit good morning fairly
heavy to teach keeping the back flat. And work on keeping the glutes
and
hamstrings loose with some stretches (dynamic before training - static
after).

The bodyweight GM, done with chest really held high and back really
tight, can be both a hamstring stretch and provide a decent amount of
exercise for the lower back. You're really fighting for control of your
hip position, lower back trying to keep the back of the pelvis up,
hamstrings trying to pull it down. A wonderful exercise, IMHO, because
if your hamstrings are up to it, you can generate a pretty decent amount
of force on your lower back this way and the whole thing is just
generally good for awareness of lower back position as well.

I can't honestly say if this would help most lifters or not, but I find
I'm able to tire out my own lower back using just this exercise and I
also find that most non-lifters I introduce it to feel it directly in
their lower backs as well. How hard you can work your lower back
probably has a lot to do with the relative strength and flexibility of
your hamstrings, but since the exercise builds those qualities, it's
always felt like a good thing to me. Something to think about, anyway,
yoga and unlifter-like as it may seem. I like to do a few as part of my
warm-ups on DL days and I also use this, but push it much harder, when I
don't have access to weights for a while.

-S-
http://www.kbnj.com

In article <[email hidden]>, Hugh Beyer

Quoted message said:

[email hidden] (Hobbes) wrote in
news:khobman800-1503051123000001@localhost:

Quoted message said:

In article <[email hidden]>, Hugh Beyer

Quoted message said:

Suze <suze_anderson@spamcop/dot/obvious> wrote in
news:[email hidden]:

> Quoting Hugh Beyer <[email hidden]>:
>
>>I tweaked my back on a heavy DL set, being stupid and thinking I had
>>to make the same weight as I made the week before even though the
>>whole workout sucked. Nothing permanent, but irritating and will keep
>>me off DL's entirely for a week or two.
>>
>>So talk to me about what to do to strengthen my back for the future.
>>I'm in a gym now so I can do back extensions. Are they good? With
>>weight? How much? How fast can I add weight? What about good
>>mornings? Any of the machines worth it?
>
> Back extensions are great if you've got access to do them.
>
>>Lyle talked about doing SLDL's with light weight, allowing your
>>back to round. What would a good program for back health?
>>
>>Don't talk to me about keeping good form. I carved "KEEP GOOD FORM"
>>on the head of a mallet and I'm pounding it into my skull every
>>evening before bed.
>
> I regularly do SLDLs in the fashion you described above, as well as
> reverse hypers.
>
> Another thing I'll occasionally do is carefully supported one-armed
> dumbbell rows with a rounded back and lighter weight.
>
> S., who works out at home.
>

One-arm DB rows with a round back? Hard for me to see how that works,
since you don't generally move your back with the one-arm rows.

It wouldn't do much for your lower back that I can see. Statically
holding the back in a rounded position while in support doesn't seem
like a great lower back exercise.

Round back lifting (light!) makes some sense. I'd hit good morning
fairly heavy to teach keeping the back flat. And work on keeping the
glutes and hamstrings loose with some stretches (dynamic before training
- static after).

Good mornings <shudder>. I suppose I should recognize that every PL'er
does them. OK, they go on the list.

Start light. Every olympic lifter does them at some point in their career
as well.

"Steve Freides" <[email hidden]> wrote in news:39oms2F65jqlkU1
@individual.net:

Quoted message said:

"Hobbes" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:khobman800-1503051123000001@localhost...

-snip-

Quoted message said:

I'd hit good morning fairly
heavy to teach keeping the back flat. And work on keeping the glutes
and
hamstrings loose with some stretches (dynamic before training - static
after).

The bodyweight GM, done with chest really held high and back really
tight, can be both a hamstring stretch and provide a decent amount of
exercise for the lower back. You're really fighting for control of your
hip position, lower back trying to keep the back of the pelvis up,
hamstrings trying to pull it down. A wonderful exercise, IMHO, because
if your hamstrings are up to it, you can generate a pretty decent amount
of force on your lower back this way and the whole thing is just
generally good for awareness of lower back position as well.

I can't honestly say if this would help most lifters or not, but I find
I'm able to tire out my own lower back using just this exercise and I
also find that most non-lifters I introduce it to feel it directly in
their lower backs as well. How hard you can work your lower back
probably has a lot to do with the relative strength and flexibility of
your hamstrings, but since the exercise builds those qualities, it's
always felt like a good thing to me. Something to think about, anyway,
yoga and unlifter-like as it may seem. I like to do a few as part of my
warm-ups on DL days and I also use this, but push it much harder, when I
don't have access to weights for a while.

That looks like a good pre-exercise stretch. BTW, I've been doing DB swings
to warm up (no KBs in our gym) and enjoying them.

Hugh

--
Experience keeps a dear school, but fools will attend no other.

Quoting Hugh Beyer <[email hidden]>:

Quoted message said:

One-arm DB rows with a round back? Hard for me to see how that works, since
you don't generally move your back with the one-arm rows.

Yes, it's more mid back as Keith indicated. You had mentioned rounded
SLDLs, which started me to thinking about rounded back exercises in
general and some comments Lyle had made, which you may or may not find
useful.

http://tinyurl.com/6gfmw

http://tinyurl.com/6crb3

http://tinyurl.com/4rp9q

On 15 Mar 2005 11:50:47 GMT, Hugh Beyer <[email hidden]> wrote in
misc.fitness.weights:

Quoted message said:

John Hanson <[email hidden]> wrote in
news:[email hidden]:

Quoted message said:

On 15 Mar 2005 02:21:26 GMT, Hugh Beyer <[email hidden]> wrote in
misc.fitness.weights:

Quoted message said:

I tweaked my back on a heavy DL set, being stupid and thinking I had to
make the same weight as I made the week before even though the whole
workout sucked. Nothing permanent, but irritating and will keep me off
DL's entirely for a week or two.

So talk to me about what to do to strengthen my back for the future. I'm
in a gym now so I can do back extensions. Are they good? With weight?
How much? How fast can I add weight? What about good mornings? Any of
the machines worth it? Lyle talked about doing SLDL's with light weight,
allowing your back to round. What would a good program for back health?

Don't talk to me about keeping good form. I carved "KEEP GOOD FORM" on
the head of a mallet and I'm pounding it into my skull every evening
before bed.

Is anyone watching your "good form"?

No, and that's a good point. I could take video. And there is one guy in the
gym whose own form is excellent--at least to my eye--I could ask his
opinion.

I thought I was using good form when I started training with the
Hudson Team. Boy was I wrong.

John Hanson <[email hidden]> wrote in
news:[email hidden]:

Quoted message said:

On 15 Mar 2005 11:50:47 GMT, Hugh Beyer <[email hidden]> wrote in
misc.fitness.weights:

Quoted message said:

John Hanson <[email hidden]> wrote in
news:[email hidden]:

Quoted message said:

On 15 Mar 2005 02:21:26 GMT, Hugh Beyer <[email hidden]> wrote in
misc.fitness.weights:

>I tweaked my back on a heavy DL set, being stupid and thinking I had
>to make the same weight as I made the week before even though the
>whole workout sucked. Nothing permanent, but irritating and will keep
>me off DL's entirely for a week or two.
>
>So talk to me about what to do to strengthen my back for the future.
>I'm in a gym now so I can do back extensions. Are they good? With
>weight? How much? How fast can I add weight? What about good mornings?
>Any of the machines worth it? Lyle talked about doing SLDL's with
>light weight, allowing your back to round. What would a good program
>for back health?
>
>Don't talk to me about keeping good form. I carved "KEEP GOOD FORM" on
>the head of a mallet and I'm pounding it into my skull every evening
>before bed.
>

Is anyone watching your "good form"?

No, and that's a good point. I could take video. And there is one guy in
the gym whose own form is excellent--at least to my eye--I could ask his
opinion.

I thought I was using good form when I started training with the
Hudson Team. Boy was I wrong.

Word.

Y'know, this is the value of an outside perspective--a lesson I apparently
need to relearn every six months.. Asking someone to look at my form was a
duh as soon as you said it, but I would have thrashed around on my own
for I don't know how long. Being a loner's a [censored].

Hugh

--
Experience keeps a dear school, but fools will attend no other.

"Hugh Beyer" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

John Hanson <[email hidden]> wrote in
news:[email hidden]:

Quoted message said:

On 15 Mar 2005 11:50:47 GMT, Hugh Beyer <[email hidden]> wrote in
misc.fitness.weights:

Quoted message said:

John Hanson <[email hidden]> wrote in
news:[email hidden]:

> On 15 Mar 2005 02:21:26 GMT, Hugh Beyer <[email hidden]> wrote
> in
> misc.fitness.weights:
>
>>I tweaked my back on a heavy DL set, being stupid and thinking I
>>had
>>to make the same weight as I made the week before even though the
>>whole workout sucked. Nothing permanent, but irritating and will
>>keep
>>me off DL's entirely for a week or two.
>>
>>So talk to me about what to do to strengthen my back for the
>>future.
>>I'm in a gym now so I can do back extensions. Are they good? With
>>weight? How much? How fast can I add weight? What about good
>>mornings?
>>Any of the machines worth it? Lyle talked about doing SLDL's with
>>light weight, allowing your back to round. What would a good
>>program
>>for back health?
>>
>>Don't talk to me about keeping good form. I carved "KEEP GOOD FORM"
>>on
>>the head of a mallet and I'm pounding it into my skull every
>>evening
>>before bed.
>>
>
> Is anyone watching your "good form"?
>
>

No, and that's a good point. I could take video. And there is one guy
in
the gym whose own form is excellent--at least to my eye--I could ask
his
opinion.

I thought I was using good form when I started training with the
Hudson Team. Boy was I wrong.

Word.

Y'know, this is the value of an outside perspective--a lesson I
apparently
need to relearn every six months.. Asking someone to look at my form
was a
duh as soon as you said it, but I would have thrashed around on my
own
for I don't know how long. Being a loner's a [censored].

A video camera is a great thing for this. I haven't posted any here
lately but I still regularly (maybe once every few weeks) tape myself
and watch the playback to check on form issues, squat depth, and the
like. If you have a digital camera with a built-in playback screen,
you're all set - no need to hook it up to anything.

-S-
http://www.kbnj.com

Quoted message said:

Hugh

--
Experience keeps a dear school, but fools will attend no other.

Quoting Hugh Beyer <[email hidden]>:

Quoted message said:

One-arm DB rows with a round back? Hard for me to see how that works, since
you don't generally move your back with the one-arm rows.

Yes, it's more mid back as Keith indicated. You had mentioned rounded
SLDLs, which started me to thinking about rounded back exercises in
general and some comments Lyle had made, which you may or may not find
useful.

http://tinyurl.com/6gfmw

http://tinyurl.com/6crb3

http://tinyurl.com/4rp9q

Suze <suze_anderson@spamcop/dot/obvious> wrote in
news:[email hidden]:

Quoted message said:

Quoting Hugh Beyer <[email hidden]>:

Quoted message said:

One-arm DB rows with a round back? Hard for me to see how that works,
since you don't generally move your back with the one-arm rows.

Yes, it's more mid back as Keith indicated. You had mentioned rounded
SLDLs, which started me to thinking about rounded back exercises in
general and some comments Lyle had made, which you may or may not find
useful.

http://tinyurl.com/6gfmw

http://tinyurl.com/6crb3

http://tinyurl.com/4rp9q

Yup, I remember that thread and I'm doing back extensions where I flex my
spine. I'd forgotten the isometric hold idea, which I'll probably throw in.

Nothing about RB DB rows, though.

Hugh

--
Experience keeps a dear school, but fools will attend no other.