turning right: advice please

On 15/6/04 11:12 am, in article [email hidden],

audrey said:

I'd appreciate some advice from more experienced cyclists. Situation
is this:

I'm at the head of a line of traffic [1] in the 'right turn only'
lane, waiting at the traffic lights to turn right. I'm positioned in
the centre of the lane. Lights go green, I move forward and wait for
suitable gap in on-coming traffic. This is a busy road, so it can
take a while. Gap appears, I turn right, car behind me sets off at
the same time and overtakes me as we both turn right. Car zooms past
me on the right.

Quoted message said:

What, if anything, can I do to stop cars overtaking me like this on
right turns?

Move about three quarters of the way across the lane, enough to stop the car
passing on the right or the left.

Wait for the gap a bit further back so you are turning into the road on the
right hand edge of the turning circle. This leaves the car little room to
overtake.

This means not moving forward when the lights go green (or just a bike
length or so.) Basically you cut the corner a bit tighter..

...d

audrey said:

What, if anything, can I do to stop cars overtaking me like this on
right turns?

I don't find that a problem on most roads as there's usually enough
overtaking room, but follow David's excllent advice for narrower roads (or
whenever it bothers you).

~PB

David Martin said:

On 15/6/04 11:12 am, in article [email hidden],

audrey said:

What, if anything, can I do to stop cars overtaking me like this on
right turns?

Move about three quarters of the way across the lane, enough to stop the car
passing on the right or the left.

Wait for the gap a bit further back so you are turning into the road on the
right hand edge of the turning circle. This leaves the car little room to
overtake.

This means not moving forward when the lights go green (or just a bike
length or so.) Basically you cut the corner a bit tighter..

thanks for the advice, David. I think I have been going too far
forward, and will try moving forward less, as well as the other things
you suggest. Thanks

and, going OT now, notes email addy and waves to Nice Man from the
Ancestral Homelands - actually my parents left Dundee before I was
born, but we visited so often and they talked about it so much, it
feels like 'home' even though I've never lived there.

Audrey

--

email = audmad aaatttt hhhottt mmmaailll dddoottt ccccoommm

Pete Biggs said:

audrey said:

What, if anything, can I do to stop cars overtaking me like this on
right turns?

I don't find that a problem on most roads as there's usually enough
overtaking room, but follow David's excllent advice for narrower roads (or
whenever it bothers you).

the trouble with this particular junction is the cars accelerate hard
to get past, so they are not stuck behind a bike on the narrow access
road for the few seconds it would take them to get into the car park.
It also bothers me On Principle, I think, because over taking at a
junction is A Bad Thing.

A

--

email = audmad aaatttt hhhottt mmmaailll dddoottt ccccoommm

Yes, It is all about road position. I was taught this when training for
my motorbike license. You need to maintain your road position to prevent
being overtaken which means riding in the centre of the lane. This may
upset/delay others but it will stop you being squeezed off the road. I
do it now on a cycle when I'm approaching any difficult manoevres. I
feel safer and I'm ready with an appreciative wave or death stare as
appropriate to anybody effected.

==========================
Engerlund Engerlund we wuz robbed.

--

audrey said:

the trouble with this particular junction is the cars accelerate hard
to get past, so they are not stuck behind a bike on the narrow access
road for the few seconds it would take them to get into the car park.
It also bothers me On Principle, I think, because over taking at a
junction is A Bad Thing.

I agree it's Bad, and dodgy overtaking of all sorts is happening more and
more as the acceleration performance of average cars increases to
ridiculous levels. The drivers must be doing their brains in with all the
G force!

~PB

On 15/6/04 11:56 am, in article [email hidden],

audrey said:

and, going OT now, notes email addy and waves to Nice Man from the
Ancestral Homelands - actually my parents left Dundee before I was
born, but we visited so often and they talked about it so much, it
feels like 'home' even though I've never lived there.

Actually I'm from sarf of the river, and not from Scotland at all though I'm
one of the few people here who moved south on immigrating.. (a brief stay in
places north and cold) But it is a nice place and well worth visiting on a
cycling tour. The natives are friendly and to quote a recent advertisement
the spring water comes in still, sparkling, and brown with a head.
(It also doesn't rain much here at all..)

regards

...d

David Martin said:

On 15/6/04 11:56 am, in article [email hidden],

audrey said:

and, going OT now, notes email addy and waves to Nice Man from the
Ancestral Homelands - actually my parents left Dundee before I was
born, but we visited so often and they talked about it so much, it
feels like 'home' even though I've never lived there.

Actually I'm from sarf of the river, and not from Scotland at all though I'm
one of the few people here who moved south on immigrating.. (a brief stay in
places north and cold) But it is a nice place and well worth visiting on a
cycling tour. The natives are friendly and to quote a recent advertisement
the spring water comes in still, sparkling, and brown with a head.
(It also doesn't rain much here at all..)

I shall prob be visiting later in the year for Family Things. But the
thought of all those Hills puts me off bringing bike along. At least
I shall be able to understand the locals (even though I can't acually
speak the local patois). Some Mancunian friends of mine had a
miserable few days in Dundee because of the rude locals' responses to
their requests for directions. Eventually someone told them the
locals were saying "I dinnae ken" *not* "I dinnae care"

A
--

email = audmad aaatttt hhhottt mmmaailll dddoottt ccccoommm

audrey said:

I'm at the head of a line of traffic [1] in the 'right turn only'
lane, waiting at the traffic lights to turn right. I'm positioned in
the centre of the lane. Lights go green, I move forward and wait for
suitable gap in on-coming traffic. This is a busy road, so it can
take a while. Gap appears, I turn right, car behind me sets off at
the same time and overtakes me as we both turn right. Car zooms past
me on the right.

Wot the others said - move right to prevent it. Also buy an Air Zound. It
is very good at making dozy cagers realise they have done something stupid.
Think of it as an attitude adjuster :-)

Guy
--
May contain traces of irony. Contents liable to settle after posting.
http://www.chapmancentral.co.uk

David Martin said:

Move about three quarters of the way across the lane, enough to stop the car
passing on the right or the left.

Hi Dave

Recently, in a situation similar to Audrey's I did as you suggest and
was overtaken on my LEFT by a car coming from behind me.

No harm done except to thhe car's rear tyres, my vocal chords and one
of my wrists (extreme hand signalling!).

James

you know? said:

Wot the others said - move right to prevent it. Also buy an Air Zound. It
is very good at making dozy cagers realise they have done something stupid.
Think of it as an attitude adjuster :-)

hmm .. does it work better than sidling up to them in the baked bean
aisle, enquiring if they have a [insert colour] [insert make] car?
then asking them why they cut just cut you up like that? preferably in
hearing range of their spouse/partner/kids

A

--

email = audmad aaatttt hhhottt mmmaailll dddoottt ccccoommm

audrey said:

I shall prob be visiting later in the year for Family Things. But the
thought of all those Hills puts me off bringing bike along.

There's no shortage of them, but the somewhat linear nature of the town
layout along the side of 2 hills means you can usually zig and zag up
more sensible inclines rather than take on the Serious Stuff head on.
e.g, Hilltown bad, Victoria Road good, West Park Road bad, Blackness
Road good.
My round-town hack bike has a 3 speed hub on it and it's okay for the job.

If you want a pleasant hackette head out West to Errol (possibly for
dinner at the Smiddy), which is along the side of the firth and aside
from a short climb to Errol at the end or into Invergowrie on the way
back is pretty much pancake terrain.

Quoted message said:

I shall be able to understand the locals (even though I can't actually
speak the local patois).

I've lived here since '89 and some parts of Lochee still leave me pretty
confused as to what's being said... I think it's a bit like Chinese
with the intonation thing, with the word "Ehhh" alone capable of
expressing many different concepts when used just so... ;-)

Pete.
--
Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer
Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital
Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
net [email hidden] http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/

audrey said:

Quoted message said:

Wot the others said - move right to prevent it. Also buy an Air
Zound. It is very good at making dozy cagers realise they have done
something stupid. Think of it as an attitude adjuster :-)

hmm .. does it work better than sidling up to them in the baked bean
aisle, enquiring if they have a [insert colour] [insert make] car?
then asking them why they cut just cut you up like that? preferably in
hearing range of their spouse/partner/kids

Either would be more civilised than accidentally knocking the offender's
ankle with your trolley wheel. Ouch! :-)

~PB

"Pete Biggs" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

audrey said:

the trouble with this particular junction is the cars accelerate hard
to get past, so they are not stuck behind a bike on the narrow access
road for the few seconds it would take them to get into the car park.
It also bothers me On Principle, I think, because over taking at a
junction is A Bad Thing.

I agree it's Bad, and dodgy overtaking of all sorts is happening more and
more as the acceleration performance of average cars increases to
ridiculous levels. The drivers must be doing their brains in with all the
G force!

I don't know about that. I've driven many miles behind queues of tailgating
cars who won't / can't overtake HGVs doing 40 on single carriageway roads.
Anyway, overtaking in a car with a decent amount of go is safer than in a
slow car, as you're on the wrong side of the road for less time.

Pete Biggs said:

Either would be more civilised than accidentally knocking the offender's
ankle with your trolley wheel. Ouch! :-)

I wouldn't dream of doing anything of that nature.
I can't carry a trolley's worth of stuff home on the bike.

A

--

email = audmad aaatttt hhhottt mmmaailll dddoottt ccccoommm

Doki said:

Quoted message said:

I agree it's Bad, and dodgy overtaking of all sorts is happening
more and more as the acceleration performance of average cars
increases to ridiculous levels. The drivers must be doing their
brains in with all the G force!

I don't know about that. I've driven many miles behind queues of
tailgating cars who won't / can't overtake HGVs doing 40 on single
carriageway roads. Anyway, overtaking in a car with a decent amount
of go is safer than in a slow car, as you're on the wrong side of the
road for less time.

But it's often safer still not to overtake at all and slower cars
encourage that. Some drivers may still be cautious or even over-cautious
but my point was that overtaking is more frequent than it used to be.
Motorists overtake me on my bike more often and quicker than they used to
a few years ago just because they can.

~PB

Doki said:

overtaking in a car with a decent amount
of go is safer than in a slow car, as you're on the wrong side of the
road for less time.

In theory. But what actually happens is that people use the greater power
to get into bigger trouble more quickly (see the recent Top Gear pictures
for details).

--
Guy
--
May contain traces of irony. Contents liable to settle after posting.
http://www.chapmancentral.co.uk

Peter Clinch said:

audrey said:

I shall prob be visiting later in the year for Family Things. But the
thought of all those Hills puts me off bringing bike along.

There's no shortage of them, but the somewhat linear nature of the town
layout along the side of 2 hills means you can usually zig and zag up
more sensible inclines rather than take on the Serious Stuff head on.
e.g, Hilltown bad, Victoria Road good, West Park Road bad, Blackness
Road good.
My round-town hack bike has a 3 speed hub on it and it's okay for the job.

I suspect your legs have more gears in them than mine, tho

A

--

email = audmad aaatttt hhhottt mmmaailll dddoottt ccccoommm

audrey said:

Quoted message said:

Either would be more civilised than accidentally knocking the
offender's ankle with your trolley wheel. Ouch! :-)

I wouldn't dream of doing anything of that nature.
I can't carry a trolley's worth of stuff home on the bike.

:-) I can, actually. Albeit rather in rather a wobbly fashion, with
risk of busting my bike. ...One reason I'm going to build a super-strong
rear wheel (hence recent questions about touring rims, etc).

~PB