In my opinion the deciding gap between Armstrong and Ulrich was made on the stage team trial. Armstrong gained ( I don't know 2 minutes or so) on Jan. I believe if you take that stage away Jan wears yellow into paris. Armstrong's team is clearly better than Jan's, but head to head Ulrich is stronger than Lance. I wonder what would be the difference if Jan had Lance's team and vice versa. Question: If Jan had been in yellow when Lance fell down, would he have waited for him? But I think too much is being made out of that stage in the Pyrenees, since if he hadn't waited for Lance, the American would have attacked anyway and won the stage (maybe not by 40 seconds but by 20 or so).
Try 43" in the team time trial. You do the math -- you obviously haven't done the research.
"Andre" <[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...
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In my opinion the deciding gap between Armstrong and Ulrich was made on the stage team trial. Armstrong gained ( I don't know 2 minutes or so) on Jan. I believe if you take that stage away Jan wears yellow into paris. Armstrong's team is clearly better than Jan's, but head to head Ulrich is stronger than Lance. I wonder what would be the difference if Jan had Lance's team and vice versa. Question: If Jan had been in yellow when Lance fell down, would he have waited for him? But I think too much is being made out of that stage in the Pyrenees, since if he hadn't waited for Lance, the American would have attacked anyway and won the stage (maybe not by 40 seconds but by 20 or so).
1) Lance would have waited for him without a doubt. Lance hugely believes in the traditions of the race and says so time and time again for years. 2) I think Lance *still* wins by a small margin if you remove the TTT but let someone else do the math. 3) Lance would have ridden differently had there been no TTT so it isn't a fair comparison. For example he may have attacked more etc. and still won. Removing the TTT again isn't fair if you don't consider that removing it the riders may have chosen to ride the *rest* of the race differently.
In my opinion the deciding gap between Armstrong and Ulrich was made on the stage team trial. Armstrong gained ( I don't know 2 minutes or so) on Jan. I believe if you take that stage away Jan wears yellow into paris. Armstrong's team is clearly better than Jan's, but head to head Ulrich is stronger than Lance. I wonder what would be the difference if Jan had Lance's team and vice versa. Question: If Jan had been in yellow when Lance fell down, would he have waited for him? But I think too much is being made out of that stage in the Pyrenees, since if he hadn't waited for Lance, the American would have attacked anyway and won the stage (maybe not by 40 seconds but by 20 or so).
Couldn't you even look up that the ttt difference was only 43"? This has blown up in the eurocentric minds over the last two weeks and gets bigger with every moan.
Andre said:
In my opinion the deciding gap between Armstrong and Ulrich was made on the stage team trial. Armstrong gained ( I don't know 2 minutes or so) on Jan. I believe if you take that stage away Jan wears yellow into paris. Armstrong's team is clearly better than Jan's, but head to head Ulrich is stronger than Lance. I wonder what would be the difference if Jan had Lance's team and vice versa. Question: If Jan had been in yellow when Lance fell down, would he have waited for him? But I think too much is being made out of that stage in the Pyrenees, since if he hadn't waited for Lance, the American would have attacked anyway and won the stage (maybe not by 40 seconds but by 20 or so).
Moreover, without the TTT and its resultant lead for USPS, the tactics on regular stages would have changed so there's no good way to predict what would have happened without the TTT. LA and USPS would have worked for more time on JU in the mountains and they might have gotten it.
--Bill Davidson -- Please remove ".nospam" from my address for email replies.
I'm a 17 year veteran of usenet -- you'd think I'd be over it by now
"StanSD" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...
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Troll...The what if game is a bit much...what if Lance hadn't crashed...what if Ulrich hadn't fallen down...what if it hadn't rained...speculation like this is a waste of time. What matters is who stands on the podium tomorrow.
Stan
"Andre" <[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...
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In my opinion the deciding gap between Armstrong and Ulrich was made on the stage team trial. Armstrong gained ( I don't know 2 minutes or so) on Jan. I believe if you take that stage away Jan wears yellow into paris. Armstrong's team is clearly better than Jan's, but head to head Ulrich is stronger than Lance. I wonder what would be the difference if Jan had Lance's team and vice versa. Question: If Jan had been in yellow when Lance fell down, would he have waited for him? But I think too much is being made out of that stage in the Pyrenees, since if he hadn't waited for Lance, the American would have attacked anyway and won the stage (maybe not by 40 seconds but by 20 or so).
Moreover, without the TTT and its resultant lead for USPS, the tactics on regular stages would have changed so there's no good way to predict what would have happened without the TTT. LA and USPS would have worked for more time on JU in the mountains and they might have gotten it.
--Bill Davidson
Ok Bill, point taken. But I think it would be fun to speculate what the results may have been if the teams would have been reversed for Lance and Jan.
"David Corsi" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<87xUa.133681$OZ2.26230@rwcrnsc54>...
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1) Lance would have waited for him without a doubt. Lance hugely believes in the traditions of the race and says so time and time again for years. 2) I think Lance *still* wins by a small margin if you remove the TTT but let someone else do the math. 3) Lance would have ridden differently had there been no TTT so it isn't a fair comparison. For example he may have attacked more etc. and still won. Removing the TTT again isn't fair if you don't consider that removing it the riders may have chosen to ride the *rest* of the race differently.
3) is an excellent point. You can't assume the rest of the race would have gone the same.
"Kurgan Gringioni" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...
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"Andre" <[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...
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"Kurgan Gringioni" <[email hidden]> wrote in
message news:<[email hidden]>...
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"Andre" <[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]... > In my opinion the deciding gap between Armstrong and Ulrich was made on the stage team > trial.
Dumbass -
If JAN really should have won this tour, then he should have taken 40 seconds off LANCE at Luz Ardiden rather than vice versa.
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just making conversation and points... figuring out things. You wouldn't talk like that face to face so why do it on computer?
Dumbass -
You are incorrect.
I would call you a dumbass to your face because you are a dumbass.
cheers.
I doubt entirely, your so brave...behind your computer.
