TT wheelset

in message <[email hidden]>, Paul D

(') said:

Me again. A question for all you TT 'ers. I started time trailling last
summer just on my standard drop barred road bike + some clip on tri
bars. This year I'm trying to put together a bit more focussed machine.
I've been offered a 2nd hand pair of HED wheels by a friend (deep rim
front & disc rear), but they're clinchers. Is this a big deal for
TTing?

No. In fact, I would prefer clinchers, because they're much less hassle
to look after. I believe most of the pro teams use clinchers these days.
For TTing, you want your tyres very very slick and very very hard, but I
don't believe that modern clinchers are going to hold you back.

--
[email hidden] (Simon Brooke) http://www.jasmine.org.uk/~simon/

Morning had broken, and there was nothing left for us to do
but pick up the pieces.

"Paul D" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Me again. A question for all you TT 'ers. I started time trailling last
summer just on my standard drop barred road bike + some clip on tri bars.
This year I'm trying to put together a bit more focussed machine. I've
been offered a 2nd hand pair of HED wheels by a friend (deep rim front &
disc rear), but they're clinchers. Is this a big deal for TTing? I've
never used tubs, but everybody else going much quicker than I do does, so
would it be a mistake to buy a TT-specific wheelset in clincher form?

Ta

No problem using clinchers. Loads of people do. Certainly a lot of people
prefer clinchers, but equally lots do clinchers these days. The wheels the
offspring has just acquired are tubs, but he could just as easily have got
clinchers - which are easier to change.

Cheers, helen s

Paul D said:

Me again. A question for all you TT 'ers. I started time trailling last
summer just on my standard drop barred road bike + some clip on tri bars.
This year I'm trying to put together a bit more focussed machine. I've been
offered a 2nd hand pair of HED wheels by a friend (deep rim front & disc
rear), but they're clinchers. Is this a big deal for TTing? I've never used
tubs, but everybody else going much quicker than I do does, so would it be a
mistake to buy a TT-specific wheelset in clincher form?

In a timetrial you should be able to see where you're going, so the risk
of a snakebite is small. And the run-flat capability of a tubular isn't
as important as in road racing, if you puncture you've lost.

They will be fine.

--
---
Marten Gerritsen

INFOapestaartjeM-GINEERINGpuntNL
www.m-gineering.nl

Paul D said:

Me again. A question for all you TT 'ers. I started time trailling last
summer just on my standard drop barred road bike + some clip on tri bars.
This year I'm trying to put together a bit more focussed machine. I've been
offered a 2nd hand pair of HED wheels by a friend (deep rim front & disc
rear), but they're clinchers. Is this a big deal for TTing? I've never used
tubs, but everybody else going much quicker than I do does, so would it be a
mistake to buy a TT-specific wheelset in clincher form?

Arguably clinchers will be better as they are supposed to have slightly
lower rolling resistance [1] than equivalent tubs. One of the reasons
you'll see a lot of tubs used in TTs is that the rider's favoured wheel
is only available with a tubular rim - the wheelset being more
significant for performance than the choice between clincher and
tubular. If you like the HEDs and they are an attractive price, go for
them. You will see a significant increase in your top speed. Running
clinchers will not put you at a disadvantage.

[1] It's the glue apparently that causes this rather than any property
of the tyre itself.

--
Dave...

Simon Brooke said:

No. In fact, I would prefer clinchers, because they're much less hassle
to look after. I believe most of the pro teams use clinchers these days.

"tubs" I think you meant.

The lightweight carbon wheels are nearly all tubs, and there's a big
advantage in using a lightweight, deep section wheel so the pros are
back on tubs again.

For the OP, if you've been offered a good second hand deal, just
go with it. The main benifit you'd get from spending a lot more on
a (new) pair of tub based wheels is lighter wheels and that isn't
that important in TT'ing anyway.

Arthur

--
Arthur Clune

dkahn400 said:

Arguably clinchers will be better as they are supposed to have slightly
lower rolling resistance [1] than equivalent tubs. One of the reasons

[1] It's the glue apparently that causes this rather than any property
of the tyre itself.

I believe that this is only true at a constant pressure. Since tubs can
take a lot more pressure a good tub will have a lower RR than a good
clincher when used in a way suitable for the different types.

--
Arthur Clune

Arthur Clune said:

The lightweight carbon wheels are nearly all tubs

I think it's partly to do with the moulding/layering-up process that a
lot [1] of wheel makers use for their all-carbon rims, which makes it
awkward to incorporate the 'hook' that a high-pressure clincher's bead
needs for secure fitting.

David Belcher

[1] Though I think Campag have overcome this hurdle and now make
clinchers with all-carbon rims.

Simon Brooke said:

No. In fact, I would prefer clinchers, because they're much less hassle
to look after. I believe most of the pro teams use clinchers these days.

Quite a few pro squads seem to vary tyre types depending on the type of
race and the road surface - certainly, when US Postal used Hutchinson
products, they rode top-of-the-range tubs *and* clinchers.
Tubs did look seriously threatened in the early '90s when pros riding
the likes of Michelin Hi-Lite clinchers were scooping quite a few
prizes, but the pendulum seems to have swung back a little bit now,
maybe because tyre materials/technology have improved a bit right
across the board. Clinchers do, however, seem to be the main choice -
in the UK at least - of amateur racers these days.

David Belcher

Arthur Clune said:

dkahn400 said:

Arguably clinchers will be better as they are supposed to have slightly
lower rolling resistance [1] than equivalent tubs. One of the reasons

[1] It's the glue apparently that causes this rather than any property
of the tyre itself.

I believe that this is only true at a constant pressure. Since tubs can
take a lot more pressure a good tub will have a lower RR than a good
clincher when used in a way suitable for the different types.

You may be right, but not necessarily. Although it's true that RR
decreases with tyre pressure the rate of decrease falls off sharply
over about 105 psi. Whether the pressure in the tub can ever get high
enough to nullify the springiness in the glue is something I think you
could only determine by carrying out actual experiments.

There is also a suggestion that using hard track glue rather than
springy road glue will give lower rolling resistance.

I think we're all agreed though that the choice of wheelset is more
significant for performance than the choice between clinchers and tubs.

--
Dave...

David E. Belcher said:

Arthur Clune said:

The lightweight carbon wheels are nearly all tubs

I think it's partly to do with the moulding/layering-up process that a
lot [1] of wheel makers use for their all-carbon rims, which makes it
awkward to incorporate the 'hook' that a high-pressure clincher's bead
needs for secure fitting.

David Belcher

[1] Though I think Campag have overcome this hurdle and now make
clinchers with all-carbon rims.

Several manufacturers offer full carbon clincher rims.

But what happens when you put 10 bar in the tyre and start heating up
the braking area? All epoxies start to creep when hot and you could
loose valuable seconds and quite a lot of skin 😉
--
---
Marten Gerritsen

INFOapestaartjeM-GINEERINGpuntNL
www.m-gineering.nl

M-gineering said:

Quoted message said:

Several manufacturers offer full carbon clincher rims.

Campag offer some carbon rims in clincher (Hyperion at least).
I'm not sure who else do.

Certainly most makers making carbon rims seem to make them
tub only. This isn't that surprising since it's a much easier
thing to make

--
Arthur Clune

In article <[email hidden]>, Simon

Brooke () said:

No. In fact, I would prefer clinchers, because they're much less hassle
to look after. I believe most of the pro teams use clinchers these days.

This one has been beaten to deth in rec.bicycles.tech recently, and
according to a recent French (WOCAB) magazine article, the split is
about fifty-fifty between tubs and clinchers.

--
Dave Larrington - <http://www.legslarry.beerdrinkers.co.uk/>
They came for Eamonn Holmes; I think I'm right in saying that I
applauded.

Paul D wrote:
I've never used

Quoted message said:

tubs, but everybody else going much quicker than I do does,

It's probably due to them being fitter and/or more aerodynamic rather
than their tyres. Anyhow TTs are about PBs aren't they ? , beating
yourself not the otheres..Simply buying a faster bike surely isn't very
rewarding. ;-)

MSeries said:

It's probably due to them being fitter and/or more aerodynamic rather
than their tyres. Anyhow TTs are about PBs aren't they ? , beating
yourself not the otheres..Simply buying a faster bike surely isn't very
rewarding. ;-)

That way madness lies though. If you worry about time, you end up riding
on the A1. Bound to get a PB then.

Better to compare yourself to others in a proper race I say. This of course
could mean the people you normally come near to in a local '10' rather than
Stewart Dangerfield 🙂

Arthur

--
Arthur Clune

MSeries said:

Paul D wrote:
I've never used

Quoted message said:

tubs, but everybody else going much quicker than I do does,

It's probably due to them being fitter and/or more aerodynamic rather
than their tyres. Anyhow TTs are about PBs aren't they ? , beating
yourself not the otheres..Simply buying a faster bike surely isn't very
rewarding. ;-)

Pretty much agreed. I would (and did) buy
a bike that "pleased" me; it was effectively
a 1970's fixed time trial bike.

It's very pretty (if you like retro), and
very light (circa 14 Lb).

Most importantly, it also fits me very,
VERY well, allowing
me to exert myself to the max.

Since I TT for PB's, It's all I need.

Any limitations in performance are
mine. I would need a LOT more training
for the bike to be a more important
problem than lack of training :-)

Now, if I were going for comparitive
competition with others, I'd probably
be spending bucks on the latest gear
like everyone else.

BugBear

Arthur Clune said:

MSeries said:

It's probably due to them being fitter and/or more aerodynamic rather
than their tyres. Anyhow TTs are about PBs aren't they ? , beating
yourself not the otheres..Simply buying a faster bike surely isn't very
rewarding. ;-)

That way madness lies though. If you worry about time, you end up riding
on the A1. Bound to get a PB then.

It is about bike, rider and course (and weather). The course and bike
can be kept constant (I'm still riding essentially the same bike I rode
fifteen years ago) and you can choose the local course. Its then a
question of beating your PB on that course on that bike. If you want to
really even things up then do it on a track.

Quoted message said:

Better to compare yourself to others in a proper race I say. This of course
could mean the people you normally come near to in a local '10' rather than
Stewart Dangerfield 🙂

I tend to come near the faster riders. Thats because they set me off
much earlier so we finish at the same time ;-)

...d

"MSeries" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Paul D wrote:
I've never used

Quoted message said:

tubs, but everybody else going much quicker than I do does,

It's probably due to them being fitter and/or more aerodynamic rather
than their tyres. Anyhow TTs are about PBs aren't they ? , beating
yourself not the otheres..Simply buying a faster bike surely isn't very
rewarding. ;-)

I absolutely agree, and in a perfect world I would keep my bike exactly as I
rode the first TT in order to accurately gauge how much my fitness is
improving.

I would very much like, however, to be competing with the really fast guys
and getting those big open wins for my club (har dee har har). So, how much
difference does not-so-aero bits make on a 10 or 25 mile TT compared with
the guys winning? Don't know, but if I have nigh on the same kit as them, I
can more easily gauge how far behind where I ultimately want to be in
fitness terms.

But thats just me trying to justify wanting to look swish with some fancy
new carbon parts - never underestimate the power of having some flashy new
kit to aid motivation!

Paul D said:

But thats just me trying to justify wanting to look swish with some fancy
new carbon parts - never underestimate the power of having some flashy new
kit to aid motivation!

When my brother was into HGV-chasing he used to sit at home trying to stretch
his nose into an aerodynamic shape - a la Alf Engers.

'Testing' breeds wierd obsessions in the quest to gain that magic PB.

John B

John B said:

When my brother was into HGV-chasing he used to sit at home trying to stretch
his nose into an aerodynamic shape - a la Alf Engers.

Some years ago the discussion of the aerodynamic properties of Alf
Engers's nose appeared in the letters pages of a cycling magazine.

One correspondent pointed out that if the nose were to have a real
aerodynamic benefit it would have to be mounted on the back of the head.