TT's vs VO2 max intervals

mark_e_smith said:

I do these longer efforts at a lower RPM (80) to build strength. I realize I should be tired, but if I do these on Tuesday, when it's time to do a hard group ride on Thursday I find myself struggling to put in my pulls.

Thoughts?

1) Try doing the TT's at your normal cadence, and see if it isn't easier to recover for your Thursday rides. That could be why your buddy does them in the early season.

2) Yes, you should continue doing the longer efforts. The higher your sustainable aerobic power, the more recovery you experience in the brief pauses between those anaerobic MTB efforts. Lactate threshold power is much more trainable than VO2max power, and it will continue to improve after your VO2max has plateaued.

mark_e_smith said:

I just started doing 10 min TT's @300-330 watts after last build period's shorter 1-5 min efforts at 350-400 watts. I haven't decided if longer TT's are better than the short efforts in terms of performance gains, but I definitely notice a lack of recovery in the days after these longer efforts. I do these longer efforts at a lower RPM (80) to build strength. I realize I should be tired, but if I do these on Tuesday, when it's time to do a hard group ride on Thursday I find myself struggling to put in my pulls.

What I'm wondering is if I even need to do these longer efforts, or if shorter (VO2 max) work periods will do the same thing (ie 5x5 min or 20x1min sessions at a higher wattage), or if I should keep doing the longer efforts but just at a lower wattage. I was tested before as having a TT range at 300 watts.

Btw, I am training for mtb racing, basically every weekend at the Semi-Pro level, which is pretty much all anaerobic for 1.5-2 hrs. A buddy of mine says he only does long TT's and Tempo in the early season, and the intervals he does in the race season are all 3-5 min VO2 max wrkouts. Thoughts?

A question and a statement:

1) what are the TSS values for the different interval workouts you've been doing?

2) any race longer than ~70 seconds is predominantly aerobic in nature. Your MTB races therefore are clearly not "pretty much all anaerobic for 1.5-2 h" (note that your buddy apparently never does anything but aerobic intervals).

You also haven't said how many intervals you're doing and with what recovery period. The two workouts I do right now are 8x5 with 5 minutes recovery and 3x20 with 5 minutes recovery. Of these two workouts, the 8x5 definitely makes me more tired the next day.

As far as performance gain, 5 minute intervals target V02max whereas 20 minute intervals target LT. 10 minute intervals are somewhere in between. Which one will give you the best performance gain depends a lot on what your particular performance profile looks like.

Sorry..the longer intervals are from 2-4x10 minutes with 6 minutes rest between and I shoot for 310 watts. The shorter ones I was doing during my last race/peak period, they were 20 x 1min with 2 min rest between, and I would average about 375 watts for these.

I probably should raise my cadence, I'm sure it would help recovery.

Andy, I have your book and I haven't done the TSS score, that's a lot of math! I should prolly just get the cycling peaks software but I'm still recovering from the PT purchase..

As for mtb races, I was under the impression that you are anaerobic most of the time; my avg HR in a good race for 2 hrs is 185, and my aerobic threshold is around 170-75, so wouldn't that mean that I am using the anaerobic system for the most part?

The part I need to improve in my racing is the endurance; I am a great starter and can stay up front for the first 3-4 laps, but I tend to fade or even Pop! in the last lap. I've noticed when I ride my own pace and don't have to respond to attacks I last much longer, I think because while I am somewhat strong, my riding skills often keep me in the game and not my ovewhelming power 😄 I find I can pull equal or better lap times alone than sitting in a pack (depending on who's leading!) because I don't have to respond to the bursts and brakes, I try to "flow". Recover faster, last longer, that seems to be the key.

mark_e_smith said:

As for mtb races, I was under the impression that you are anaerobic most of the time; my avg HR in a good race for 2 hrs is 185, and my aerobic threshold is around 170-75, so wouldn't that mean that I am using the anaerobic system for the most part?

Nope. Something is wrong with your data or your assumption of what your threshold is. I would say your ATHR is closer to your average over a 2 hour race: 185 bpm.

What is your average HR for a 1 hour TT? Or a 20 minute TT?

It would probably be about the same, 180-185...but I would do those on the road, alone, where I can never see the numbers I do in a mtb race. The high average is due I think to trying to keep up! I think it would be almost impossible for me put down the watts I do in a race situation in a solo TT.

There are lots of times when I'm looking at 195 for extended periods...recovery is like 170-175 unless there's a long downhill.