TT bar/position, power output, and HR.

The slightly higher HR may be as a result of a more cramped position, constricting the blood flow.

We did some gym experiments with HR at a constant Cadence the only variable being saddles with slots and without slots, it makes a difference.

gclark8 said:

The slightly higher HR may be as a result of a more cramped position, constricting the blood flow.

We did some gym experiments with HR at a constant Cadence the only variable being saddles with slots and without slots, it makes a difference.

Don't keep us in suspenders......which was better, slots or no slots.

BlueJersey said:

The only thing I could think of is that I, maybe, spent more time at my sub threshold on the flat and downhill.

Maybe I am not understanding something, but isn't it possible that with your aero bars, you were actually more aero 😕 .

BlueJersey said:

I was out today testing my mini TT bar on my road bike with 32spokes wheels. I couldn't make much sense from the power data. I did a 5 laps session at sub threshold. The first lap I saved 40sec from my last week's session at the same power output. I didn't climb the rollers as hard as last week but my HR was overall higher.

Second, third, forth, and the fifth laps show the similar pattern. Faster time. Similar power output and higher HR. Yet, didn't attack the rollers as hard as I did last week.

The only thing I could think of is that I, maybe, spent more time at my sub threshold on the flat and downhill.

I am not surprised at all by these results. Subtle differences in where you ride at slightly higher or lower power have a huge impact on elapsed time, even if you ride a course at precisely the same total power (NP). Even +/-10 watts matters, depending on where you go plus and where you go minus. When you throw in equipment or position changes and wind, it becomes very hard to figure out what's going on. I'm working on a way to overlay a power meter file and a course topo file, with wind direction and velocity, to be able to break down a test ride into very small parts. That is the holy grail of TT analysis tools and will eventually work, but it is very complex.

But over 40sec faster??? 🙂 I wish I could do mass start races with my TT bar on. Added a disc rear wheel and deep section front wheel, I can literally save over a minute????

wilmar13 said:

Maybe I am not understanding something, but isn't it possible that with your aero bars, you were actually more aero 😕 .

BlueJersey said:

But over 40sec faster???

How long is the circuit?

6 miles per lap. Without the TT bar, my best time was from last week, 16 minutes and 54sec. Yesterday with the TT bar, 16 minutes and 10 sec. I did 5 laps there.

whoawhoa said:

How long is the circuit?

BlueJersey said:

But over 40sec faster??? 🙂

Over that distance, sure.

BlueJersey said:

I wish I could do mass start races with my TT bar on.

Why, do insist on riding up front for the better scenery? 🙂 You'll get more benefit from riding behind a big guy than you saw with your aerobars.

BlueJersey said:

Added a disc rear wheel and deep section front wheel, I can literally save over a minute????

Yep. If you want to get good at TTs you'd better have a big equipment budget. It gets difficult to overcome the aero advantage with fitness alone.

frenchyge said:

Yep. If you want to get good at TTs you'd better have a big equipment budget. It gets difficult to overcome the aero advantage with fitness alone.

But it can be cheaper than you think... the front wheel is the most important. If you shop carefully, you can get a used Hed DEEP / Jet 90 / Specialized Trispoke, etc. for $250ish. Then a flat base bar, like the syntace one at chucksbikes.com for $15. Aero brake levers another $20, and barcons for $30-120 (depending on whether you are willing to use old school ones in friction mode or want new indexed ones). Finally a CHAero wheelcover for $60, and you've got a pretty aero rig on the cheap. Not a brand new P3 Carbon, but I'm willing to bet 97% as aero for less than 20% of the investment.

shawndoggy said:

But it can be cheaper than you think...

How cheap did I think it could be?? 😉

shawndoggy said:

If you shop carefully, you can get a used Hed DEEP / Jet 90 / Specialized Trispoke, etc. for $250ish. Then a flat base bar, like the syntace one at chucksbikes.com for $15. Aero brake levers another $20, and barcons for $30-120 (depending on whether you are willing to use old school ones in friction mode or want new indexed ones). Finally a CHAero wheelcover for $60, and you've got a pretty aero rig on the cheap. Not a brand new P3 Carbon, but I'm willing to bet 97% as aero for less than 20% of the investment.

Well, there's also the cost of the dedicated second bike, unless you're willing to change all that stuff over between a morning TT and afternoon crit or RR (for stage races). Throw in the TT helmet, skinsuit, and shoe covers, and I agree you're most of the way there. Honestly, that's still more than I'd want to spend for just a few rides a year.

frenchyge said:

Honestly, that's still more than I'd want to spend for just a few rides a year.

Indeed, but as you know, stage races especially can be decided by seconds...

When there was still a 24 hour mtb race up at Lake Tahoe, I did it for a few years. After the first year it became clear that a high end set of lights for the entire team was a necessity to be competitive. Same is becoming true in the TT / stage race arena.

At my local club's unsanctioned informal tuesday night TT, I was flabergasted by the number of 4K bikes.

Quoted post said:

Well, there's also the cost of the dedicated second bike

Yep, though that too can be handled cheaply (like a $200 Leader or Scattante F&F). Personally, I cruzed ebay in the fall (when nobody's buying bikes) for a used ultegra bike from an unfavored brand and ended up getting a killer deal. The whole thing, with aero bars and nice front wheel and disc cover on a standalone separate bike can be done for under $1K for sure.

Or you could spend twice that on a zipp-laced PT SL wheel... it's all relative.

Anybody else think that usa cycling should consider equipment restrictions in the lower categories? I've felt they should do that in junior races for a while. I think a limit to standard road bikes, wheels no deeper than x mm, and clip-on aerobars would be a very sensible rule.

whoawhoa said:

Anybody else think that usa cycling should consider equipment restrictions in the lower categories? I've felt they should do that in junior races for a while. I think a limit to standard road bikes, wheels no deeper than x mm, and clip-on aerobars would be a very sensible rule.

There'd still be some kid who would pay for wind tunnel time...

whoawhoa said:

Anybody else think that usa cycling should consider equipment restrictions in the lower categories? I've felt they should do that in junior races for a while. I think a limit to standard road bikes, wheels no deeper than x mm, and clip-on aerobars would be a very sensible rule.

Well, I guess I'd have to ask why?

If not having an expensive, aero bike is what is keeping someone from upgrading categories, it's likely they wouldn't get very far anyway.

Considering the oposite, a person who manages to upgrade due to the assistance of a lot of fancy gear isn't going to have much success, or fun, once they get there.

Scott

scotmart said:

Well, I guess I'd have to ask why?

Scott

Well, more than anything because I don't like having to compete at a disadvantage. 😠 But, I guess that's part of it, just like genetic advantages and disadvantages. And I'd probably feel differently if I had spent money on good equipment.