I am finding that most of my hard weekday 90 min sessions (intervals included) are giving a score of around 80-90 TSS. I would normally need a day of recovery after a hard session of say 4 x 10 mins at threshold pace but on the TP site it gives a figure of <150 TSS as being a low load with normal recovery by the following day. Can someone help explain this disparity for me as I know that I need a day to recover from an intense 90 min workout but TSS advice indicates otherwise.
Can anyone else give me some figures on what they normally see for typical sessions such as moderate to hard steady effort, interval sessions etc ?
I am finding that most of my hard weekday 90 min sessions (intervals included) are giving a score of around 80-90 TSS. I would normally need a day of recovery after a hard session of say 4 x 10 mins at threshold pace but on the TP site it gives a figure of <150 TSS as being a low load with normal recovery by the following day. Can someone help explain this disparity for me as I know that I need a day to recover from an intense 90 min workout but TSS advice indicates otherwise.
Can anyone else give me some figures on what they normally see for typical sessions such as moderate to hard steady effort, interval sessions etc ?
Thanks
Peter
Well I have to agree that TSS scores in the 80-90 range should be able to be done every day. This brings the question do you have your threshold power set accurately? An optimistic threshold power would drive under reported TSSs.
I find that I can do 100 TSS workouts every day, 7 days a week with regularity. When I have a harder than average training session or long outside ride (200+ TSS), I find doing a 80 - 90 TSS recovery workout (no intervals) the following day the best prescription.
My average weekly TSS scores are 700 - 800 with generally one day off a week. Of course as others will say here the best way to use TSS is comparatively between your own personal workouts and not in comparison to others. If you believe your threshold power setting is accurate, then I suggest slowly ramping up your weekly TSS score about 10% a week till you get to a level you are comfortable with (training wise).
I am finding that most of my hard weekday 90 min sessions (intervals included) are giving a score of around 80-90 TSS. I would normally need a day of recovery after a hard session of say 4 x 10 mins at threshold pace but on the TP site it gives a figure of <150 TSS as being a low load with normal recovery by the following day. Can someone help explain this disparity for me as I know that I need a day to recover from an intense 90 min workout but TSS advice indicates otherwise.
Can anyone else give me some figures on what they normally see for typical sessions such as moderate to hard steady effort, interval sessions etc ?
Thanks
Peter
When you say that you need to recover from the workout, is that to do intervals again, or just to train at all? I find the day after 2x20's that I can't sustain high zone 4 power again, but am fine to ride 3-4 hours in z3.
I am finding that most of my hard weekday 90 min sessions (intervals included) are giving a score of around 80-90 TSS. I would normally need a day of recovery after a hard session of say 4 x 10 mins at threshold pace but on the TP site it gives a figure of <150 TSS as being a low load with normal recovery by the following day.
Two things - the content of the training can have an impact on how well you do the next day, and even more importantly, how much you've been training over the last few months will have an even bigger impact.
e.g. if you've been sitting on your doofus for a month not training at all, you will take much longer to recover from a 150tss effort than you would if you've been chronically putting in 150tss/day.
All good points above, and I will add that I *used* to think that I needed a day of rest after an interval workout. Once I actually tried it with my PM, however, I found that I'm able to produce the same interval power (within <5w) on subsequent days with only a slightly higher amount of mental persistence, as long as my TSS is below ~125.
If you haven't tested yourself already, you might just give it a try.
When you say that you need to recover from the workout, is that to do intervals again, or just to train at all? I find the day after 2x20's that I can't sustain high zone 4 power again, but am fine to ride 3-4 hours in z3.
I guess that that is the point I am making - currently I will schedule 3 hard sessions per week with a day at least between them - but given that they are only eliciting a TSS of 80-90 then in theory I should be able to schedule a hard session the following day.
My threshold is about right and my IF scores show this to be the case.
90 min workouts is all I can do on a weekday (5 days) and then a hard weeknd ride on once day (250TSS) - so I am only getting 650 ish at around 10.5 hours - doesnt seem right to me.
I guess that that is the point I am making - currently I will schedule 3 hard sessions per week with a day at least between them - but given that they are only eliciting a TSS of 80-90 then in theory I should be able to schedule a hard session the following day.
My threshold is about right and my IF scores show this to be the case.
90 min workouts is all I can do on a weekday (5 days) and then a hard weeknd ride on once day (250TSS) - so I am only getting 650 ish at around 10.5 hours - doesnt seem right to me.
Maybe you'd be able to train more effectively if you did some upper l3 sessions instead of l4 work. Can you outline what a typical week looks like for you now?
Maybe you'd be able to train more effectively if you did some upper l3 sessions instead of l4 work. Can you outline what a typical week looks like for you now?
Mon - easy endurance 90 mins Tues - Tempo - 80% threshold Wed - 60 min hard crit race Thurs - Easy endurance Fri - intervals (4X10 or 8 X 5) Sat - Rest Sun - Race or hard team ride (3 hours)
Mon - easy endurance 90 mins Tues - Tempo - 80% threshold Wed - 60 min hard crit race Thurs - Easy endurance Fri - intervals (4X10 or 8 X 5) Sat - Rest Sun - Race or hard team ride (3 hours)
If I were you I would switch the threshold intervals to tuesday and then make thursday and friday both tempo days. You could probably up the level of that workout a little bit.
I guess that that is the point I am making - currently I will schedule 3 hard sessions per week with a day at least between them - but given that they are only eliciting a TSS of 80-90 then in theory I should be able to schedule a hard session the following day.
My threshold is about right and my IF scores show this to be the case.
90 min workouts is all I can do on a weekday (5 days) and then a hard weeknd ride on once day (250TSS) - so I am only getting 650 ish at around 10.5 hours - doesnt seem right to me.
Although this is going to vary by individual, my impression is that you can increase the intensity of your "hard" weekday sessions. It sounds as though your intervals are primarily L4. These really don't require much, if any, recovery. And, recoveries can be ridden pretty close to FT (e.g., 90%FT). You also don't need much warmup or cooldown if you are doing mainly L4s (5 min each max). You should be able to do 90min rides in the vicinity of 130 TSS points if you are either taking the day off the next day or riding at a recovery pace. Personally, my preference is 200 TSS points one day and zero the next day rather than back-to-back 100 point days. I regularly get 1000+ TSS points per week and have seen no ill effects.
Although this is going to vary by individual, my impression is that you can increase the intensity of your "hard" weekday sessions. It sounds as though your intervals are primarily L4. These really don't require much, if any, recovery. And, recoveries can be ridden pretty close to FT (e.g., 90%FT). You also don't need much warmup or cooldown if you are doing mainly L4s (5 min each max). You should be able to do 90min rides in the vicinity of 130 TSS points if you are either taking the day off the next day or riding at a recovery pace. Personally, my preference is 200 TSS points one day and zero the next day rather than back-to-back 100 point days. I regularly get 1000+ TSS points per week and have seen no ill effects.
Looking back over my data I struggled to find a 90 min session near to 130 - found a hard effort with 4 climbs (all climbed at or around threshold) and a TSS of 123 and an IF of .92 - in my book a pretty hard effort and certainly not repeatable daily or after an interval session.
I am concerned about my TSS calc - current CP30 is 285W from a rolling TT completed a month back - I have 285 in as FT in CP - is this correct ?
When do you guys schedule rest weeks and how do you structure them? Is it based on accumulated TSS or how you feel or after a certain period of time? I have always done one about every 4th week but it seems kinda dumb if I am feeling ok and my numbers are up.
Scott
RapDaddyo said:
Although this is going to vary by individual, my impression is that you can increase the intensity of your "hard" weekday sessions. It sounds as though your intervals are primarily L4. These really don't require much, if any, recovery. And, recoveries can be ridden pretty close to FT (e.g., 90%FT). You also don't need much warmup or cooldown if you are doing mainly L4s (5 min each max). You should be able to do 90min rides in the vicinity of 130 TSS points if you are either taking the day off the next day or riding at a recovery pace. Personally, my preference is 200 TSS points one day and zero the next day rather than back-to-back 100 point days. I regularly get 1000+ TSS points per week and have seen no ill effects.
Looking back over my data I struggled to find a 90 min session near to 130 - found a hard effort with 4 climbs (all climbed at or around threshold) and a TSS of 123 and an IF of .92 - in my book a pretty hard effort and certainly not repeatable daily or after an interval session.
I am concerned about my TSS calc - current CP30 is 285W from a rolling TT completed a month back - I have 285 in as FT in CP - is this correct ?
Nah, that might be part of it. FT is 1hr power, which will be ~5% (help here someone?) lower than 30 minute power.
Hmmm. Sqrt (1000tss/750min)= 1.15. Me thinks you have your threshold set way way way too low. What does CPS say your average weekly IF is?
Not a chance. My typical ride is ~3hrs at an IF of ~.85. My longer rides (e.g., 4hrs) have an IF ~.75. I monitor my data way too much to have my threshold set too low. My TSS scores are where they are more due to the volume than to the intensity. I rarely have a ride >.90IF, but I also rarely have a ride less than 2.5 hrs.
Not a chance. My typical ride is ~3hrs at an IF of ~.85. My longer rides (e.g., 4hrs) have an IF ~.75. I monitor my data way too much to have my threshold set too low. My TSS scores are where they are more due to the volume than to the intensity. I rarely have a ride >.90IF, but I also rarely have a ride less than 2.5 hrs.
hang on now your average weekly IF (assuming an even 1000 pts over 12hrs riding time) is:
IF = sqrt(1000/(12*100)) or 0.913
Something does not quite jive - though we ain't giving you a hard time (yet) 😉.
Not a chance. My typical ride is ~3hrs at an IF of ~.85. My longer rides (e.g., 4hrs) have an IF ~.75. I monitor my data way too much to have my threshold set too low. My TSS scores are where they are more due to the volume than to the intensity. I rarely have a ride >.90IF, but I also rarely have a ride less than 2.5 hrs.
I was initially calculating TSS incorectly, but as Rick says, stuff still doesn't quite add up.
It's quite a strain to do much more that 10hours over an IF of .85
To relate this back to the original posters question though. If you're doing 1000pt + weeks, the impact a 150point ride will have on you will be different than someone who's only doing 300points/week.
hang on now your average weekly IF (assuming an even 1000 pts over 12hrs riding time) is:
IF = sqrt(1000/(12*100)) or 0.913
Something does not quite jive - though we ain't giving you a hard time (yet) 😉.
rmur
You're mixing apples and oranges. As I said, my training volume is down this month to ~12 hrs from a usual volume of 15-20 hrs. My TSS scores are probably <1000 this month (frankly, I haven't looked because I don't need to look at my TSS numbers to know I am taking it easy). When I am regularly >1000 TSS points per week, my volume and intensity are higher (~5 rides/wk at TSS >200 points each). This month has been (for me) virtually a month off.
