Power meters · Public discussion

TSS from a run

Eldrack · 2013-06-24T15:44:52+00:00

TSS from a run is meant to be calculated as (NGP/FTP)^2 * 100 * S / 3600 which is essentially the same formula as cycling with normalised power replaced by your normalised graded pace. Isn't running harder on your body though? 2 hours at 70% of my 1hr speed will leave me fairly fatigued. However I do multiple consecutive days of 2hr rides with a normalised power of 70% FTP without any real issues. Similar if I compare a 1hr 80% run with a 1hr 80% bike ride - the run leaves more damage behind! Simply put shouldn't we factor in the extract stress that the impact side of running has into the TSS formula? I've read elsewhere that you can be an effective runner on half the number of hours vs cycling - suggesting perhaps that running is twice as stressful than cycling at a given intensity. That's probably over counting the impact of running so maybe a factor of 1.5? I.E. 1hr at FTP(ace) is equal to 150 TSS? To validate this you'd have to have a whole load of data from people who run and cycle (triathletes probably) and then run the data to see what factor gives you the best predictor of performance. Any thoughts? Anyone else count their running TSS as higher than their cycling TSS?

Started by Eldrack · 24 June 2013 · Last activity 27 June 2013 · 5 posts · 1,718 views

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Original section: Power meters
Published: 24 June 2013
Last activity: 27 June 2013
Original author: Eldrack
Posts: 5
Discussion status: Public discussion
Total views: 1,718
Views / 30 days: 0
Topics: FTP Normalized power Cyclocross Taper and peaking Track cycling

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Original post
Eldrack
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24 June 2013, 15:44 UTC #1

TSS from a run is meant to be calculated as (NGP/FTP)^2 * 100 * S / 3600 which is essentially the same formula as cycling with normalised power replaced by your normalised graded pace.
Isn't running harder on your body though?
2 hours at 70% of my 1hr speed will leave me fairly fatigued. However I do multiple consecutive days of 2hr rides with a normalised power of 70% FTP without any real issues. Similar if I compare a 1hr 80% run with a 1hr 80% bike ride - the run leaves more damage behind!
Simply put shouldn't we factor in the extract stress that the impact side of running has into the TSS formula? I've read elsewhere that you can be an effective runner on half the number of hours vs cycling - suggesting perhaps that running is twice as stressful than cycling at a given intensity. That's probably over counting the impact of running so maybe a factor of 1.5? I.E. 1hr at FTP(ace) is equal to 150 TSS?
To validate this you'd have to have a whole load of data from people who run and cycle (triathletes probably) and then run the data to see what factor gives you the best predictor of performance.
Any thoughts? Anyone else count their running TSS as higher than their cycling TSS?

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baker3
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25 June 2013, 00:25 UTC #2

Nothing from running is relevant.

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daveryanwyoming
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25 June 2013, 00:34 UTC #3

Quoted post said:
Originally Posted by baker3 [IMG]/img/forum/go_quote.gif[/IMG]
Nothing from running is relevant.
It depends on why you use the PMC, if it's a proxy for tracking cycling fitness then no running may not be that useful to track. If it's a way to track fatigue vs freshness then training stress from other sports can be very relevant.
-Dave

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Eldrack
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27 June 2013, 20:02 UTC #4

Quoted post said:
Originally Posted by daveryanwyoming [IMG]/img/forum/go_quote.gif[/IMG]
It depends on why you use the PMC, if it's a proxy for tracking cycling fitness then no running may not be that useful to track. If it's a way to track fatigue vs freshness then training stress from other sports can be very relevant.
-Dave

The fatigue vs freshness thing is exactly it. Working out what my TSB is, how to ramp my CTL, when to take breaks from training etc relies on me being to count the TSS from all the exercise I do!
Would also be interesting to know if you can build up a higher TSS by working across multiple sports and still feel fresher than if you were doing all your training in one sport.

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daveryanwyoming
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27 June 2013, 20:55 UTC #5

Quoted post said:
Originally Posted by Eldrack [IMG]/img/forum/go_quote.gif[/IMG]
...Would also be interesting to know if you can build up a higher TSS by working across multiple sports and still feel fresher than if you were doing all your training in one sport.

Not in my experience, for instance when I introduce running to prep for cyclocross my overall weekly TSS tends to drop and I tend to feel more fatigued when trying to do multiple sports.
OTOH, I've hit some very good power numbers during those transition periods when I'm running and cycling at the same time. So is that because my multi-sport CTL actually reflects some tapering as my weekly TSS drops, is it because the running provides a different kind of training stress that's helpful for FTP and sustainable power or perhaps something else entirely? Hard to say but even being pretty generous in terms of estimating run IF and run TSS my weekly TSS tends to drop but I don't feel stellar even though some of my long interval power numbers have been very good during those periods.
Not sure the PMC is nearly refined enough to answer those questions but if tracking fatigue from other sports helps you with your training workload management then go for it.
-Dave

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