Trying to give up computer



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Dan Cosley

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I just switched bikes, and the new one has no computer. I'm considering not getting one -- I have a
tendency to look down at the little speed number, to the detriment of paying attention to cycling.

How many of you have ridden with a computer and then decided to get rid of it? Do you miss it?

Do people use computers in nontraditional ways? For example, taping over the display or mounting
upside down so it's way inconvenient to read while riding but you can get cumulative stats, etc?

-- Dan

--
Dan Cosley ([email protected] * http://www.cs.umn.edu/~cosley/) GroupLens Research
Lab, Univ of MN (http://movielens.umn.edu/ * 612.624.8372) *** Just a foot soldier in the Army
of Truth ***
 
I have a polar monitor that has cycling features. Back when I just had an Avocet computer, I found
myself running through the displays all the time, probably to the detriment of my riding. Now, I
only have three functions that I am interested in: elapsed time, heart rate, and cadence.

Generally, I can tell my cadence pretty well at this point without looking at the computer, and I'm
getting better on heart rate. So, I check mostly to remind myself to drink water now. I could
probably set the thing to ring every 10 minutes and not have to look at it at all. But its nice to
be able to download all the info later.

Duffy "Dan Cosley" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
> I just switched bikes, and the new one has no computer. I'm considering not getting one -- I have
> a tendency to look down at the little speed number, to the detriment of paying attention to
> cycling.
>
> How many of you have ridden with a computer and then decided to get rid of it? Do you miss it?
>
> Do people use computers in nontraditional ways? For example, taping over the display or mounting
> upside down so it's way inconvenient to read while riding but you can get cumulative stats, etc?
>
> -- Dan
>
> --
> Dan Cosley ([email protected] * http://www.cs.umn.edu/~cosley/) GroupLens Research Lab,
> Univ of MN (http://movielens.umn.edu/ *
612.624.8372)
> *** Just a foot soldier in the Army of Truth ***
 
Bicycle computers all can be removed from their mounting hardware quite easily. You can take it out
when you don't need it, or snap it back in when you do.

Dan Cosley wrote:

> I just switched bikes, and the new one has no computer. I'm considering not getting one -- I have
> a tendency to look down at the little speed number, to the detriment of paying attention to
> cycling.
>
> How many of you have ridden with a computer and then decided to get rid of it? Do you miss it?
>
> Do people use computers in nontraditional ways? For example, taping over the display or mounting
> upside down so it's way inconvenient to read while riding but you can get cumulative stats, etc?
>
> -- Dan
>
> --
> Dan Cosley ([email protected] * http://www.cs.umn.edu/~cosley/) GroupLens Research
> Lab, Univ of MN (http://movielens.umn.edu/ * 612.624.8372) *** Just a foot soldier in the Army of
> Truth ***
 
Dan Cosley writes:

> I just switched bikes, and the new one has no computer. I'm considering not getting one -- I have
> a tendency to look down at the little speed number, to the detriment of paying attention to
> cycling.

> How many of you have ridden with a computer and then decided to get rid of it? Do you miss it?

I don't look at my Cyclometer unless I'm trying to measure a distance or how much farther it is to
some place. I use it to keep track of how long a ride was and what the maximum speed was. It does
that without my intervention or scrutiny. Proof of that is that I often fail to read the distance at
the end of a climb that I was measuring.

> Do people use computers in nontraditional ways? For example, taping over the display or mounting
> upside down so it's way inconvenient to read while riding but you can get cumulative stats, etc?

Most people have enough self control to direct their vision to that which is important and are able
to ignore selected trivia. Maybe you need electrical tape over your glasses.

Jobst Brandt [email protected]
 
I like to track my mileage over the course of a year, mostly out of curiosity, so I have computers
on three of my bikes. It's also interesting, to me, to see what my average speed was after a ride.
Since the computers have clock functions, it's a convenient alternative to wearing a watch.

My other bike is only ridden occasionally, and for short distances, so I don't bother.

Seems pretty much like a non-issue.

On Tue, 2 Sep 2003 15:47:17 +0000 (UTC), Dan Cosley <[email protected]> wrote:

>I just switched bikes, and the new one has no computer. I'm considering not getting one -- I have a
>tendency to look down at the little speed number, to the detriment of paying attention to cycling.
>
>How many of you have ridden with a computer and then decided to get rid of it? Do you miss it?
>
>Do people use computers in nontraditional ways? For example, taping over the display or mounting
>upside down so it's way inconvenient to read while riding but you can get cumulative stats, etc?
>
>-- Dan
 
I gave up my bicycle computer and now ride without one. It took a little getting used to because I
thought I needed all the numbers. Now that I am used to not having the computer, it is nice. I no
longer train; I simply enjoy the rides. I have to admit, however, that there are times when I use my
watch to time myself up my favorite climb.

Dan Cosley wrote:

> I just switched bikes, and the new one has no computer. I'm considering not getting one -- I have
> a tendency to look down at the little speed number, to the detriment of paying attention to
> cycling.
>
> How many of you have ridden with a computer and then decided to get rid of it? Do you miss it?
>
> Do people use computers in nontraditional ways? For example, taping over the display or mounting
> upside down so it's way inconvenient to read while riding but you can get cumulative stats, etc?
>
> -- Dan
>
> --
> Dan Cosley ([email protected] * http://www.cs.umn.edu/~cosley/) GroupLens Research
> Lab, Univ of MN (http://movielens.umn.edu/ * 612.624.8372) *** Just a foot soldier in the Army of
> Truth ***
 
>I just switched bikes, and the new one has no computer. I'm considering not getting one -- I have a
>tendency to look down at the little speed number, to the detriment of paying attention to cycling.

The distance function is very useful if you're trying to follow directions on a cue sheet.

--
mac the naïf
 
In article <[email protected]>, Dan Cosley <[email protected]> writes:
> I just switched bikes, and the new one has no computer. I'm considering not getting one -- I have
> a tendency to look down at the little speed number, to the detriment of paying attention to
> cycling.
>
> How many of you have ridden with a computer and then decided to get rid of it? Do you miss it?
>
> Do people use computers in nontraditional ways? For example, taping over the display or mounting
> upside down so it's way inconvenient to read while riding but you can get cumulative stats, etc?

The damn thing's an albatross. There has been many I time when I've been tempted to skip it like a
stone across some body of water. But it was a gift, and I'm superstitious about diss'ing gifts.

I can't even read it while on the move, thanx to my reading-glasses-necessitating far sightedness.
My addiction is manifested in using the numbers to journalize all my rides. Oh well. I guess nothing
is really stopping me from packing it up and stowing it in the Precious Momentos drawer. Just
between you, me and the steering wheel, I kinda wish she gave me a camera instead.

Cateye Astrales are remarkably resiliant against Vancouver's notorious rain.

cheers, Tom

--
-- Powered by FreeBSD Above address is just a spam midden. I'm really at: tkeats [curlicue] vcn
[point] bc [point] ca
 
In article <[email protected]>, [email protected] wrote:
>
> Most people have enough self control to direct their vision to that which is important and are
> able to ignore selected trivia. Maybe you need electrical tape over your glasses.

I, in fact, do have trouble with self control of that nature sometimes, which is why I'm asking
about strategies that help deal with that. Tape over the glasses seems like a risky strategy, but
I'll ponder it. Thanks.

-- Dan

--
Dan Cosley ([email protected] * http://www.cs.umn.edu/~cosley/) GroupLens Research
Lab, Univ of MN (http://movielens.umn.edu/ * 612.624.8372) *** Just a foot soldier in the Army
of Truth ***
 
In article <[email protected]>, Tom Keats wrote:

> I can't even read it while on the move, thanx to my reading-glasses-necessitating far sightedness.
> My addiction is manifested in using the numbers to journalize all my rides.

There's something seductive about quantifying progress/effort. Not always a useful thing, though --
the primary example from my daily life is the notorious use of "lines of code" as a measure of
programmer productivity. Bad idea.

> Cateye Astrales are remarkably resiliant against Vancouver's notorious rain.

You sound almost wistful.

-- Dan

--
Dan Cosley ([email protected] * http://www.cs.umn.edu/~cosley/) GroupLens Research
Lab, Univ of MN (http://movielens.umn.edu/ * 612.624.8372) *** Just a foot soldier in the Army
of Truth ***
 
"Dan Cosley" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
> How many of you have ridden with a computer and then decided to get rid of it? Do you miss it?
>
On the road I don't bother anymore with a counter of magnetic revolutions or its companion counter
of heart beats. - and I don't miss either of them. Have found them much more useful to leave on the
ergo (stationary road bike in a steel frame for training) - select a gear and a cadence and you have
an approximation for power and the heart rate is something you can choose, rather than just being a
reflection of road and traffic conditions and whatever the bunch is feeling like doing that morning.

If its a new ride or I'm not quite certain of the route will sometimes put the gps in a back jersey
pocket (as well as mapping your route it keeps a rough and ready record of the elevation profile of
the route which can be interesting) - you can get mounts to put a gps on the bars but that rather
spoils the uncluttered look of nothing up front.

Get a fair bit of use of the gps when driving (good for getting the correct turns/freeway exits on
unfamiliar freeways) and kayaking - not used much for navigating on the bike - as someone in this
ng once remarked you never really get lost on a bike, you just spend a bit longer riding then you
had planned.

But as always, ymmv best, Andrew (remove the .x1 to reply)
 
In article <[email protected]>,
"matabala" <[email protected]> writes:
>
> "Tom Keats" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
>
>
>>
> diss'ing
>>
>
> diss'ing? Tom, please don't encourage the language mongrels. And with such a fine literary name...

Language is so wonderfully plastic. We can do with it what we will.

And we (thank goodness) do.

The eastern end of the Mediterranean Sea is an interesting place. It's the nexxus of several
different continents, and many different cultures. Dance plays a big role there. I opine that that's
because so many different cultures converged there, and a need to communicate arose, so people mimed
their expressions, and that mimery evolved into the sophisticated dance of the Greeks, Baltics,
Africans and Slavs. I figure instead of talking at each other, they all just danced at each other.
In many ways, it makes much more sense to gesticulate and demonstrate, than to gutteralize abstract
sounds that might be meaningless to the hearer.

Language, schmanguage. Talk is cheap.

Nevertheless, Alice Cooper is a wonderful master of American English.

I wish I had a copy of "Lost In America" to blow the roof off this house, right now. But I don't.
Maybe that's a good thing.

Hey -- M'iss'ippi Fred McDowell -- "Ah do not play no rock'n roll, y'all; Ah just play de straight,
natch'l blues." He said he let the guitar do the talking for him. I used to channel his spirit, and
I got to become a fairly good guitar player in the process, but his Victorian values got disgusted
with my hedonistic ways. But we did cough-up a killer cover of Jimmy Reed's "Big Boss Man" (Ya just
tawlk, that's awll). So, because of my immoral improprieties, I'm not allowed to even pick up a
guitar any more. But for awhile, I was a flat-assed, white-guy Robert Johnson. Now /there's/ a guy
who could wield language. His "Milk Cow Blues" is still such a heart-rending, plaintive plea. And
/nobody/ has ever been able to credibly cover that song, since. Maybe Rory Gallagher could've, but
as far as I know, he never attempted it. Robert Johnson's ghost is probably possessing some other
poor kid, now.

Language, schmanguage.

Anybody can say a bunch of razmatazz about Greek vases and St Agnes, or St Swithin, or Chapman's
translation of some somniferently tedious Readers' Digest story.

Language & communication is so much more than uttering verbiage. That's why we can so
completely ignore TV commercials. That's why I (or you, or anyone else) can say "diss'ing" and
get away with it.

The most eloquent talk I've ever heard has come from cats & dogs. They know what matters.

Words are highly overrated.

cheers, Tom

--
-- Powered by FreeBSD Above address is just a spam midden. I'm really at: tkeats [curlicue] vcn
[point] bc [point] ca
 
On Tue, 2 Sep 2003 15:47:17 +0000 (UTC), Dan Cosley <[email protected]> wrote:

>I just switched bikes, and the new one has no computer. I'm considering not getting one -- I have a
>tendency to look down at the little speed number, to the detriment of paying attention to cycling.

Perhaps you should spray paint over the instrument panel on your car. You might have developed a
tendancy to look down at all those gauges, to the detriment of paying attention to driving.

jeverett3<AT>earthlink<DOT>net http://home.earthlink.net/~jeverett3
 
Dan Cosley wrote:
> There's something seductive about quantifying progress/effort. Not always a useful thing, though
> -- the primary example from my daily life is the notorious use of "lines of code" as a measure of
> programmer productivity. Bad idea. -- Dan

Yup. However, "*tested* lines of code" is a good measure. It's one I used in a former life.
 
In article <[email protected]>,
Dan Cosley <[email protected]> wrote:

> I just switched bikes, and the new one has no computer. I'm considering not getting one -- I have
> a tendency to look down at the little speed number, to the detriment of paying attention to
> cycling.

Some people do find the precision and wonkishness of a computer either distracting or disturbing.
Then again, a lot of people are driven to despair and bad behaviour by a bathroom scale. Not me, I
can quit weighing myself any time.

> How many of you have ridden with a computer and then decided to get rid of it? Do you miss it?

I love my computer. My dad loves his computer a little too much; I think he logs all his commutes.
I'm "training" somewhat half-heartedly for Cat 5 training crits (goal: upgrade to Cat 4 training
crits); the real fun of the computer is setting personal bests on my commute route, but the most
useful aspect is making sure I'm not slacking off, especially when I use the HRM as well.

What's a bad use of the computer? Figuring out that my route from work to home is .5 km longer than
the outbound route, and that therefore I should figure out a faster detour so I can shave another
minute off my time. Even though I use the route I do because it's safe and quiet.

160 lbs., 5'6", riding more to get to 155, that scale crack wasn't a cry for help,
--
Ryan Cousineau, [email protected] http://www.sfu.ca/~rcousine President, Fabrizio Mazzoleni Fan Club
 
Dan Cosley wrote:
>
> I just switched bikes, and the new one has no computer. I'm considering not getting one -- I have
> a tendency to look down at the little speed number, to the detriment of paying attention to
> cycling.
>
> How many of you have ridden with a computer and then decided to get rid of it? Do you miss it?
>
> Do people use computers in nontraditional ways? For example, taping over the display or mounting
> upside down so it's way inconvenient to read while riding but you can get cumulative stats, etc?
>
> -- Dan
>

My computer is a little el cheapo. Instantaneous speed is displayed always, in large digits, and is
easy to read at a glance; a secondary display, beneath Speed, shows one of 10 or more other
quantities, is small and harder to read. I set the secondary display set to Time Of Day and leave it
there because if it's set to, say, Odometer, I glance at it periodically, just like you say. And
because that part of the display is small and hard for this old guy to read without reading glasses,
paying attention to it is dangerous. Knowing that TOD is displayed keeps me from even looking!

Bottom line: I always attach computer before I ride, but while riding I look at speed only. After
the ride is soon enough to look at Distance, Total DIstance, Avg Speed, etc.
 
Replace the computer with a cheap eTrex GPS. It's much more entertaining, and the speed page isn't
the most interesting thing. It's the old trail of breadcrumbs you're crossing, or some waypoint from
a previous day.
--
Ron Hardin [email protected]

On the internet, nobody knows you're a jerk.
 
On Tue, 2 Sep 2003 15:47:17 +0000 (UTC), Dan Cosley <[email protected]> wrote:

>I just switched bikes, and the new one has no computer. I'm considering not getting one -- I have a
>tendency to look down at the little speed number, to the detriment of paying attention to cycling.
>
>How many of you have ridden with a computer and then decided to get rid of it? Do you miss it?
>

I had computers on both bikes years ago. Then one winter I stripped one down and repainted it, and
didn't remount the computer for a couple of weeks. This was the one with cadence. Soon afterwards, I
crashed the mountain bike on a trail and was miles away before I noticed that its computer had
fallen off in the crash.

Oh well.... don't miss either one. Never remounted the one and never replaced the other. All in all,
I go slow or fast. I learned the feel of various cadences with that computer. I keep rough mile
totals for each bike in my head.

Try it both ways. It's nice to not be a slave to the readout. But it's also nice to have the
information. It's like CNN- sometimes I watch it 'wisely' and sometimes I stare at it telling me the
same simple lines for hours on end, hoping that some 'truth' will emerge no matter how often that
never happens.

>Do people use computers in nontraditional ways?

Was someone here asking about using one to monitor the speed of a lathe? I like that idea. Maybe
I'll haul mine out and take it into the shop. Then again, based on feed tables and the feel and
sound and quality of the cut, I already know if I am going too fast or too slow or just right.....
 
In article <[email protected]>, John Everett wrote:
> On Tue, 2 Sep 2003 15:47:17 +0000 (UTC), Dan Cosley <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>>I just switched bikes, and the new one has no computer. I'm considering not getting one -- I have
>>a tendency to look down at the little speed number, to the detriment of paying attention to
>>cycling.
>
> Perhaps you should spray paint over the instrument panel on your car. You might have developed a
> tendancy to look down at all those gauges, to the detriment of paying attention to driving.

Heh, point taken (and see Jobst's other response for a like take). Based on driving
behavior, though, I'd say a number of people have their driving detrimented by those gauges
(and other things).

Perhaps I should have been more clear the sort of attention I want to pay to cycling. When I look
down at the computer, it's easy for me to start thinking about numbers, training, cadence, pacing,
personal records, and such things. Not a horrible set of things to care about, but for me it comes
at the expense of noticing the wind (not always bad!), seeing small animals, exchanging pleasantries
with other cyclists, and the like. I spend enough time castigating myself about performance in other
areas[1] that I want to minimize how much I do that on the bike -- and I find it hard to resist
glancing down every mile or so as I'm scanning around.

As to your solution, I have in the past taped over annoying and distracting portions of displays.
The windshield wiper fluid light, for instance, annoys the **** out of me. I've also hidden portions
of computer screens that have caused trouble (notably, an old terminal data entry program that had a
clock, which I despised, because it encouraged clock-watching).

-- Dan

[1] Insert joke here.

--
Dan Cosley ([email protected] * http://www.cs.umn.edu/~cosley/) GroupLens Research
Lab, Univ of MN (http://movielens.umn.edu/ * 612.624.8372) *** Just a foot soldier in the Army
of Truth ***
 
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